Andruw Jones

[daa84]

Are you comparing David DeJesus to Andruw Jones?

 

I don't think we need to worry about finding "cheaper alternatives" now because attendance isn't going down anytime soon. Jerry has always based the payroll on attendance, and with our output on the field and pitching signed for years to come, our payroll will only increase.

comparing them? haha not even close....cheaper in terms of talent that we give up

[LosMediasBlancas]

Gee, it's almost like I've heard this rumor before, but I can't rememb....oh yeah, every time Rowand was struggling at the plate. When BA comes around on offense, all this Jones talk will die.

 

I'd like to hear rumors about pitching. The pen needs one arm at least and the starters need a good kick in the ass for the second half.

[BigSqwert]

A joke?

It was dripping with sarcasm.

[pcullotta]

When BA comes around on offense, all this Jones talk will die.

 

And when do you anticipate that will be? I don't want this to turn into a BA bashing thread because I like Brian, but how can you just assume his offense will come around?

[LosMediasBlancas]

And when do you anticipate that will be? I don't want this to turn into a BA bashing thread because I like Brian, but how can you just assume his offense will come around?

 

 

Might not, but I know that Garland, Rowand and Crede were given more than half a season to get their s*** together. Why wouldn't the same time frame be offered to BA? Because suddenly our starters don't all have ERA's under 3.00?... or because suddenly the Tigers are in 1st and won't lose?? Hardly seems fair or consistent.

Back to the point, rumors start when someone looks at a team's weakness and says: "hey, you know (insert all-star player's name here) might be going to the Sox." How many times have we printed up an Eric Chavez Sox jersey in the past two years?? Sure anything is possible, but I'd be surprised to see the Sox give up on BA right now.

[Milkman delivers]

Well, even though our offense doesn't seem to need the extra output, you have to make this deal if it doesn't involve McCarthy. Jones will give you stellar defense and smash about 50 homers, which is a ridiculous upgrade. I can't say for certain, but I'm pretty sure our payroll can be raised a little more. It's becoming clearer that we're going to be contenders for a while and people will switch their allegiances.

 

And if we could somehow make this deal involve Smoltz, all the better. All of this, unfortunately, will never happen.

[pcullotta]

Might not, but I know that Garland, Rowand and Crede were given more than half a season to get their s*** together.

 

I understand what you're saying but I'm not sure those are fair comparisons. In 2002, Joe got into 53 Games and hit .285 with 12 Homers and an OPS of .826. In his first full season, 2003, he hit .261 with 19 HR, 75 RBI, and an OPS of .741. For Aaron, in 2001 he got into 63 games and hit .293 with an OPS of .816. Jon's first full season came in 2001 when he was only 6-7 but he had an ERA of 3.69.

 

Currently Brian's OPS is at .579 after 62 games this season. Again, I don't want this to turn into a BA bashing thread but I don't think you can compare BA to Garland, Rowand, or Crede. All three of them performed much better early in their careers.

Edited July 3, 2006 by pcullotta

[LosMediasBlancas]

I understand what you're saying but I'm not sure those are fair comparisons. In 2002, Joe got into 53 Games and hit .285 with 12 Homers and an OPS of .826. In his first full season, 2003, he hit .261 with 19 HR, 75 RBI, and an OPS of .741. For Aaron, in 2001 he got into 63 games and hit .293 with an OPS of .816. Jon's first full season came in 2001 when he was only 6-7 but he had an ERA of 3.69.

 

Currently Brian's OPS is at .579 after 62 games this season. Again, I don't want this to turn into a BA bashing thread but I don't think you can compare BA to Garland, Rowand, or Crede. All three of them performed much better early in their careers.

 

 

I understand what you're saying and I don't hear you bashing BA. I like the idea of seeing Rob M. in there more often, but I'd be dissapointed to see the Sox give up BA entirely. However, if there really was a reasonable offer on the table to get Jones, it would be tough to turn down, so we'll see. The Sox parted with a good and very popular CF in Rowand. I'd have to imagine they're less in love with BA.

[Kalapse]

And when do you anticipate that will be? I don't want this to turn into a BA bashing thread because I like Brian, but how can you just assume his offense will come around?

His overall number will not look good at the end of the year, that's just the way it is, he's dug too deep a hole. Do yourself a favor and see what he's done it his past 12 games instead of being so incredibly dense.

[pcullotta]

His overall number will not look good at the end of the year, that's just the way it is, he's dug too deep a hole. Do yourself a favor and see what he's done it his past 12 games instead of being so incredibly dense.

First off, I don't know why you have to come off like such an asshole. I have been nothing but extremely polite in this thread and your post is an example of why I don't normally post. Moving along, in his last seven games, BA is hitting .154 with 0 HR, 0 RBI and an OPS of .522. Furthermore, here is a comparison from May 26th. Juan Uribe was batting .193 then and BA was batting .163. Since then, Uribe's AVG has gone up 45 points while BA's has gone up 13 points. I know BA isn't gonna hit .270. However, I need to see more then 13 points improvement. I like BA. If you read my other comments you would see that. I was just pointing out that his recently improved offense has been taken way out of context. In the horrible movie Little Big League, a bad hitter gets one of his rare hits and the manager gets excited. His Asst. Coach says "kid , don' t you think something's wrong when you get this excited over a seeing eye single." It seems like every time BA gets a hit, everyone thinks he's turned the corner. I hope he does but I haven't seen it yet.

[Milkman delivers]

It's also hard to take 12 games as an indicator that he's getting better.

[Kalapse]

First off, I don't know why you have to come off like such an asshole. I have been nothing but extremely polite in this thread and your post is an example of why I don't normally post. Moving along, in his last seven games, BA is hitting .154 with 0 HR, 0 RBI and an OPS of .522. Furthermore, here is a comparison from May 26th. Juan Uribe was batting .193 then and BA was batting .163. Since then, Uribe's AVG has gone up 45 points while BA's has gone up 13 points. I know BA isn't gonna hit .270. However, I need to see more then 13 points improvement. I like BA. If you read my other comments you would see that. I was just pointing out that his recently improved offense has been taken way out of context. In the horrible movie Little Big League, a bad hitter gets one of his rare hits and the manager gets excited. His Asst. Coach says "kid , don' t you think something's wrong when you get this excited over a seeing eye single." It seems like every time BA gets a hit, everyone thinks he's turned the corner. I hope he does but I haven't seen it yet.

.250 BA | .425 SLG% | 1 HR | 6 RBI | 7 R | 5 2B | over last 12

 

If you look at him at the plate he's looked much improved since he beginning of the season blah blah blah I'm done with all the BA s***, if you're watching the games you don't need to be told that's he's looked better, he's showing more patience, confidence and is driving the ball even if the balls aren't falling in. He was hitting the s*** out of the ball then hits a 5 game suspension which didn't help matter either. I come off like an asshole because it's growing tiresome making the same argument.

 

Keep this thread to Andruw Jones, you say you don't want to make it into another Brian Anderson bashing thread? Then don't, quit talking about him and stick to Jones.

[pcullotta]

Keep this thread to Andruw Jones, you say you don't want to make it into another Brian Anderson bashing thread? Then don't, quit talking about him and stick to Jones.

 

I'm sorry man but we are talking about replacing Brian Anderson with Andruw Jones. Obviously Brian is going to have to be brought up.

[klaus kinski]

Please note Anderson IS THE REASON that Jones is being discussed at all. In my opinion he still has no idea where its going when he does make contact-and calling recent performances an improvement is really a reach.

[Kalapse]

I'm sorry man but we are talking about replacing Brian Anderson with Andruw Jones. Obviously Brian is going to have to be brought up.

Then why did you feel the need to throw this into 2 of your posts?

 

I don't want this to turn into a BA bashing thread

[Milkman delivers]

Then why did you feel the need to throw this into 2 of your posts?

 

He's not trying to bash Anderson. That's his point. He's just discussing his deficiencies at the plate.

[pcullotta]

Then why did you feel the need to throw this into 2 of your posts?

 

Because I am not a BA hater and I didn't want people to just start posting "Yeah, Anderson Sucks" replies. I just don't think that his recent play is anything to get excited about.

Edited July 3, 2006 by pcullotta

[klaus kinski]

Personally I'd like to have Jones reather than BA for the 13 games we have left w/Detroit

[Kalapse]

Ugh, it seriously sucks that he needs to be discussed in so many threads, this same waterdowned discussion is just annoying to me. I really don't think it's hard to see the improvement at the plate from him even if it's not translated to much improved numbers. People were asking for good ABs and he's giving them right now. I was never a fan of Anderson as a prospect and I'm still not as high on his future in baseball as some are but I do see improvement from him as have many many others including Ozzie and KW yet the same arguments about him are comming up. It's tiresome.

 

Personally I'd like to have Jones reather than BA for the 13 games we have left w/Detroit

Yes, that is quite the limb you've gone out on there.

[SouthSide2004]

Ugh, it seriously sucks that he needs to be discussed in so many threads, this same waterdowned discussion is just annoying to me.

 

Well, if this watered-down discussion is so annoying then why don't you try to ignore it and not be such an asshole. Try going outside where running your mouth like that is going to lead to some serious consequences. It's not healthy for a 19 year old boy to be spending all his free time on the internet anyways.

[Kalapse]

Well, if this watered-down discussion is so annoying then why don't you try to ignore it and not be such an asshole. Try going outside where running your mouth like that is going to lead to some serious consequences. It's not healthy for a 19 year old boy to be spending all his free time on the internet anyways.

Man, I wish my mod powers stretched into Trade Winds. Seems like I'm the recipient of an awful lot of animosity these days, can't say I don't like it.

 

I really do wish I could be outside right now but I doubt my bosses will appreciate that.

[Dick Allen]

Although Jones obviously is a great CF and a big run producer, I just can't see the Sox adding that much payroll to their roster. I'm as big of BA fan as anyone, but he's eventually going to have to start hitting like a major leaguer. Its easier to get by with Thome,Konerko, Dye, AJ, Crede, Iguchi pretty much on fire the whole season, but the time is coming when they are going to slow down, and .170 isn't going to get it done. KW got Everett when Rowand couldn't hit in 2003, so eventually he probably will get someone if Anderson doesn't hit in 2006. But I'm pretty sure KW thinks Anderson will hit in 2007 or 2008 and beyond and probably would go after a guy who has an expiring contract so BA could try again next year.

[witesoxfan]

Thoughts to ponder to all those in favor of bringing Jones in.

 

In bringing Jones in, the Sox are adding approximately $5-7 mill on this year's payroll alone, as well as adding another $13.5 mill on next year's. The Sox payroll is starting to increase at a pretty steep rate, but with raises due to several players on the team just due to their contracts, are the Sox going to be able to afford a $115 million payroll? You also have to understand Jones is almost undoubtedly leaving Chicago after 2007 if acquired - his agent is the only and only Scott Boras, as previously mentioned on this thread, and he's going to be looking for a contract that ties him up for the rest of his career, probably in the $14-17 million a year range, as well as probably a no-trade clause in his contract. If the Sox were to grant him both of those wishes(it's sorta possible, as Jones actually signed his contract with Atlanta with no help from Boras...as I recall, Boras had about a $115 million contract ready to go with Texas, but Andruw gave Atlanta a hometown discount and stayed), 1 of 4 scenarios will play out

1. The Sox hit a wall around 2009-10, and they are stuck with an albatross of a contract.

2. The Sox continue playing well, but Jones hits a wall, and they are stuck with an albatross of a contract.

3. Both the Sox and Jones hit a wall, and the Sox are fistf***ed.

4. Both the Sox and Jones continue to play well, and there are no consequences.

If Jones were to leave, what do the Sox do in CF for the long term? Both Sweeney and Owens are mediocre to bad defensive CFers, thus causing a void in CF defensively for the Sox, unless they are to again spend big on a CFer, which limits their spending on other parts of the team.

 

The thoughts to ponder in not bringing Jones in are much simpler. You have great defense in CF, you have a CFer for 5 more years beyond 2006, guaranteed, you already have a good offense, you already have a good defense, and you're putting out a team that costs $13 million less than a team with Andruw Jones, thus allowing you to put the money to more than one use on a player that is really unnecessary to bring in.

 

All fantasies aside, Jones to the Sox, atleast to me, makes no sense. Short-term, it would be huge for the Sox, and it's very apparent that KW wants to repeat as World Champion. However, while that need to win keeps this Jones a possibility, albeit a small possibility, it just does not make sense long term. To me, I am seeing 4 scenarios where a Jones acquisition turns out negatively, and 1 where it is positive short and long term. Regardless of how likely the positive scenario is to play out, you can't like the number of scenarios where it turns out bad.

[VAfan]

Thoughts to ponder to all those in favor of bringing Jones in.

 

In bringing Jones in, the Sox are adding approximately $5-7 mill on this year's payroll alone, as well as adding another $13.5 mill on next year's. The Sox payroll is starting to increase at a pretty steep rate, but with raises due to several players on the team just due to their contracts, are the Sox going to be able to afford a $115 million payroll? You also have to understand Jones is almost undoubtedly leaving Chicago after 2007 if acquired - his agent is the only and only Scott Boras, as previously mentioned on this thread, and he's going to be looking for a contract that ties him up for the rest of his career, probably in the $14-17 million a year range, as well as probably a no-trade clause in his contract. If the Sox were to grant him both of those wishes(it's sorta possible, as Jones actually signed his contract with Atlanta with no help from Boras...as I recall, Boras had about a $115 million contract ready to go with Texas, but Andruw gave Atlanta a hometown discount and stayed), 1 of 4 scenarios will play out

1. The Sox hit a wall around 2009-10, and they are stuck with an albatross of a contract.

2. The Sox continue playing well, but Jones hits a wall, and they are stuck with an albatross of a contract.

3. Both the Sox and Jones hit a wall, and the Sox are fistf***ed.

4. Both the Sox and Jones continue to play well, and there are no consequences.

If Jones were to leave, what do the Sox do in CF for the long term? Both Sweeney and Owens are mediocre to bad defensive CFers, thus causing a void in CF defensively for the Sox, unless they are to again spend big on a CFer, which limits their spending on other parts of the team.

 

The thoughts to ponder in not bringing Jones in are much simpler. You have great defense in CF, you have a CFer for 5 more years beyond 2006, guaranteed, you already have a good offense, you already have a good defense, and you're putting out a team that costs $13 million less than a team with Andruw Jones, thus allowing you to put the money to more than one use on a player that is really unnecessary to bring in.

 

All fantasies aside, Jones to the Sox, atleast to me, makes no sense. Short-term, it would be huge for the Sox, and it's very apparent that KW wants to repeat as World Champion. However, while that need to win keeps this Jones a possibility, albeit a small possibility, it just does not make sense long term. To me, I am seeing 4 scenarios where a Jones acquisition turns out negatively, and 1 where it is positive short and long term. Regardless of how likely the positive scenario is to play out, you can't like the number of scenarios where it turns out bad.

 

I completely agree with this analysis. If the Sox have $13 million extra to spend on payroll, there are much better uses than spending it on Andruw Jones. Re-sign Mark Buehrle, lock up Joe Crede (should have tried this last offseason), a better backup catcher, replacement for Cliff Politte, etc. Brian Anderson is probably up a year too early, but even I think he'll come around as a hitter, and until then, his 3.19 zone range rating is by far the best of any CF in the game. Andruw Jones, at 2.75, is 10th.

 

If you want a short-term stop-gap to take the pressure off Anderson this year, Mike Cameron, whose contract is up at the end of the year, is a much better choice. SD may not trade him, but if they did, they wouldn't be getting BA in return.

[ZoomSlowik]

Thoughts to ponder to all those in favor of bringing Jones in.

 

In bringing Jones in, the Sox are adding approximately $5-7 mill on this year's payroll alone, as well as adding another $13.5 mill on next year's. The Sox payroll is starting to increase at a pretty steep rate, but with raises due to several players on the team just due to their contracts, are the Sox going to be able to afford a $115 million payroll? You also have to understand Jones is almost undoubtedly leaving Chicago after 2007 if acquired - his agent is the only and only Scott Boras, as previously mentioned on this thread, and he's going to be looking for a contract that ties him up for the rest of his career, probably in the $14-17 million a year range, as well as probably a no-trade clause in his contract. If the Sox were to grant him both of those wishes(it's sorta possible, as Jones actually signed his contract with Atlanta with no help from Boras...as I recall, Boras had about a $115 million contract ready to go with Texas, but Andruw gave Atlanta a hometown discount and stayed), 1 of 4 scenarios will play out

1. The Sox hit a wall around 2009-10, and they are stuck with an albatross of a contract.

2. The Sox continue playing well, but Jones hits a wall, and they are stuck with an albatross of a contract.

3. Both the Sox and Jones hit a wall, and the Sox are fistf***ed.

4. Both the Sox and Jones continue to play well, and there are no consequences.

If Jones were to leave, what do the Sox do in CF for the long term? Both Sweeney and Owens are mediocre to bad defensive CFers, thus causing a void in CF defensively for the Sox, unless they are to again spend big on a CFer, which limits their spending on other parts of the team.

 

The thoughts to ponder in not bringing Jones in are much simpler. You have great defense in CF, you have a CFer for 5 more years beyond 2006, guaranteed, you already have a good offense, you already have a good defense, and you're putting out a team that costs $13 million less than a team with Andruw Jones, thus allowing you to put the money to more than one use on a player that is really unnecessary to bring in.

 

All fantasies aside, Jones to the Sox, atleast to me, makes no sense. Short-term, it would be huge for the Sox, and it's very apparent that KW wants to repeat as World Champion. However, while that need to win keeps this Jones a possibility, albeit a small possibility, it just does not make sense long term. To me, I am seeing 4 scenarios where a Jones acquisition turns out negatively, and 1 where it is positive short and long term. Regardless of how likely the positive scenario is to play out, you can't like the number of scenarios where it turns out bad.

 

All solid points. I just don't really see the point in giving up Anderson and another solid prospect and adding another monster contract in an area that isn't a serious need.

 

I've never been much of a Jones fan. He isn't an elite hitter, but he gets payed like one. I'd like a little more than a .270-ish average and .340-ish OBP from a guy making that much money, even if he is solid defensively. He'd probably be our 4th best hitter right now. Last year was a monster fluke.