southsider2k5 Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 QUOTE(mr_genius @ Jul 7, 2006 -> 03:39 PM) they would be flooding the border if there was a new communist government in mexico. those systems never work. Half a million people a year isn't flooding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_genius Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jul 7, 2006 -> 07:30 PM) Half a million people a year isn't flooding? multiply that by atleast 10 when the communist government totally ruins an already weak economy. Edited July 8, 2006 by mr_genius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KipWellsFan Posted July 8, 2006 Author Share Posted July 8, 2006 QUOTE(mr_genius @ Jul 7, 2006 -> 07:37 PM) multiply that by atleast 10 when the communist government totally ruins an already weak economy. Communist government? What the hell are you talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 QUOTE(mr_genius @ Jul 7, 2006 -> 07:37 PM) multiply that by atleast 10 when the communist government totally ruins an already weak economy. So a full 5% of the country is going to flee for the US, when almost half of the country voted for the guy? Come on guy, I don't want to see the socialist (emphasized for your viewing pleasure) elected, but that is insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Pratt Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jul 7, 2006 -> 10:10 PM) So a full 5% of the country is going to flee for the US, when almost half of the country voted for the guy? Come on guy, I don't want to see the socialist (emphasized for your viewing pleasure) elected, but that is insane. You called him "guy"! ---------------- There are certain societies that will thrive with a Socialist government in place, and I think Mexico is one of them, provided we're talking about a legitimately Socialist government like what you have in places like Sweden and Colombia. We're not talking about Communism here, and I think it's a sign of the times that people are calling a Socialist a Commie. Not every Right Winger is a Fascist, folks, and each Leftist isn't a Communist. Let's grow up here. As far as the attacks on Hugo Chavez, I can't for the life of me figure out why people despise him so much. You mean, he nationalized his economy, and says things in support of his country? I don't have a problem with democratically elected men criticizing democratic governments, even if it is harsh, and I have no problem with Chavez talking to Castro. It's not as if we don't talk to Dictators much worse than Fidel Castro. To stick on the topic, however, I am happy that Calderon won. In places that are hellholes, Reform is always the best option. Some might say that the Leftists in Mexico are likelier to reform, but I doubt it. For about a hundred years it was they who were the problem in Mexico, and the established Party is not going to reform anything but go back to the rampant corruption. Problems are likelier to be fixed by the PAN, not the PRI. Edited July 8, 2006 by Gregory Pratt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilMonkey Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jul 8, 2006 -> 01:12 PM) As far as the attacks on Hugo Chavez, I can't for the life of me figure out why people despise him so much. You mean, he nationalized his economy, and says things in support of his country? I don't have a problem with democratically elected men criticizing democratic governments, even if it is harsh, and I have no problem with Chavez talking to Castro. It's not as if we don't talk to Dictators much worse than Fidel Castro. So you think it is ok that he is taking private businesses and turning them into state businesses? His country wouldn't even be where it is now if it wasn't for private industry investing there, and then he goes and screws them all by taking it. How is that going to help future investments? Plus, the guy is a loony! He is like Iggy, seeing black helicopters around every hill. The US may not be able to find Osama, but with him in public as much as he is, if we wanted to assassinate him, he would be gone already. All his support talk sounds alot like the 'jingoism' that I keep hearing the US is guilty of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Pratt Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 QUOTE(EvilMonkey @ Jul 8, 2006 -> 10:43 AM) So you think it is ok that he is taking private businesses and turning them into state businesses? His country wouldn't even be where it is now if it wasn't for private industry investing there, and then he goes and screws them all by taking it. How is that going to help future investments? Plus, the guy is a loony! He is like Iggy, seeing black helicopters around every hill. The US may not be able to find Osama, but with him in public as much as he is, if we wanted to assassinate him, he would be gone already. All his support talk sounds alot like the 'jingoism' that I keep hearing the US is guilty of. I am going to backtrack a bit, because I didn't quite think my post through and sort of misstated what I was talking about. As far as the attacks on Hugo Chavez, I can't for the life of me figure out why people despise him so much. You mean, he nationalized his economy, and says things in support of his country? I don't have a problem with democratically elected men criticizing democratic governments, even if it is harsh, and I have no problem with Chavez talking to Castro. It's not as if we don't talk to Dictators much worse than Fidel Castro. Well, I have a problem with him forcing private businesses into state businesses. I take back the italicized part, with that in mind. Still, I was making the point that I don't understand why the hatred for him. Dislike, sure, and disagreement, but it's not as if he goes about killing his own people or starting wars. But, I must confess I am not that well-versed in Hugo Chavez. If he has done those things, by all means, let me know, and I'll even take that back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Kickass Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 Hugo Chavez is a bit of a thug. But no worse by any means than any thug that has manhandled a South American country before him. In fact, because a lot of his actions have been geared toward improving the livelihood of Venezuela's poorest, he's a much better thug comparatively than most of the thugs we have running things in this world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Pratt Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 QUOTE(Rex Kickass @ Jul 8, 2006 -> 11:12 AM) Hugo Chavez is a bit of a thug. But no worse by any means than any thug that has manhandled a South American country before him. In fact, because a lot of his actions have been geared toward improving the livelihood of Venezuela's poorest, he's a much better thug comparatively than most of the thugs we have running things in this world. Eh, good intentions don't make up for thuggery, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 QUOTE(Rex Kickass @ Jul 8, 2006 -> 12:12 PM) Hugo Chavez is a bit of a thug. But no worse by any means than any thug that has manhandled a South American country before him. In fact, because a lot of his actions have been geared toward improving the livelihood of Venezuela's poorest, he's a much better thug comparatively than most of the thugs we have running things in this world. He talks about it, but I don't think that's what his actions are actually "geared toward". Like when he offered to sell gas cheap to the poor in the US -- he could sell Venezuela's oil on the world market and use the proceeds to help the poorest of the poor in Venezuela, who are certainly worse off than the average US citizen who would have benefited from his program. He's a demagogue and a self-aggrandizer. Anyway, back to Mexico -- the European Union observers have reported no significant irregularities. If there's any proof of fraud beyond a couple of longtime PRDers being quoted in a paper, now would be a good time to provide it, b/c at this point the PRD just looks undemocratic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Pratt Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Jul 8, 2006 -> 11:24 AM) Anyway, back to Mexico -- the European Union observers have reported no significant irregularities. If there's any proof of fraud beyond a couple of longtime PRDers being quoted in a paper, now would be a good time to provide it, b/c at this point the PRD just looks undemocratic. A few days ago, I wrote about it on my blog, and these were my own personal thoughts on the matter: On a personal level, I have blood-line close relatives in Mexico, and they are all fans of the PRI political party. Frankly, I don’t trust their judgement, and so I am a supporter of the PAN. Besides that, I typically support political parties of reform over those that want to keep the establishment as is, and that habit becomes a must for me when we add in the state of Mexico: who on Earth would want to keep that country as it is? Reform away! And then I cited this article and talked about it, http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/...st_electri.html, because it had interesting information about their election system: In any case, Mexico has a better system guarding against election fraud today than we have in most of the United States. Its voter ID program is much more rigorous. It has paper ballots, which take more time to count, but which also provide a paper trail for recounts. It has a national superintending electoral administrative agency, which our federal system of holding elections would not permit. All this is the legacy of PRI Presidents Carlos Salinas and Ernesto Zedillo, who calculated that Mexico could not take its place among advanced nations without a transparent and fair electoral system. They deserve great credit for the peaceful transfer of power from one party to another in Mexico in 2000, and for what appears likely to be the resolution of an extremely close fair election in 2006. Salinas voted quietly this year in Tlalpan and Zedillo in Pedgregal, rich neighborhoods on the south side of Mexico City, relatively unnoticed. But they are the worthy architects of this system, which is deserving of respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KipWellsFan Posted July 8, 2006 Author Share Posted July 8, 2006 Obrador is from the coalition PRD Party not PRI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_genius Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jul 7, 2006 -> 10:10 PM) So a full 5% of the country is going to flee for the US, when almost half of the country voted for the guy? Come on guy, I don't want to see the socialist (emphasized for your viewing pleasure) elected, but that is insane. whatever, dude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 QUOTE(mr_genius @ Jul 8, 2006 -> 08:29 PM) whatever, dude Well at least you used "dude" correctly, its a start I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_genius Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jul 10, 2006 -> 11:42 AM) Well at least you used "dude" correctly, its a start I guess. haha, nice try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 Update -- Lopez Obrador claimed he had "irrefutable" video proof that the election had been rigged. Someone should have told his own polling place representatives. From that liberal propoganda machine, the NYT: MEXICO CITY, July 13 — To an untrained eye, the scenes captured on video certainly looked like Mexico’s bad old days when votes were stolen instead of won. There was a man inside a polling station stuffing one vote after another into a ballot box. Andrés Manuel López Obrador, the embattled leftist candidate for president, showed the video to a crowd of reporters on Monday morning and called it proof that poll workers had taken part in a conspiracy of fraud that robbed him of victory and handed it to his conservative rival, Felipe Calderón. That night, the Federal Electoral Institute, or IFE, and Mr. López Obrador’s own representative at the polling station said Mr. López Obrador was misrepresenting the video. The tape, they said, showed a poll worker putting misplaced ballots where they belonged, a common procedure that was perfectly legal. Lopez Obrador's response? All those people must be accepting bribes... Anyway, it's a good read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 Protests continue . I wonder if Calderon's rhetoric, which hasn't changed much since the vote, isn't getting a little stale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 I can't imagine shutting down Mexico City is going to go over well for the 15 million or so people who live and work there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Aug 2, 2006 -> 10:45 AM) I can't imagine shutting down Mexico City is going to go over well for the 15 million or so people who live and work there... They are going to do the same thing immigrant amnesty people in this country did. They are going to overplay their hand and create a backlash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted August 28, 2006 Share Posted August 28, 2006 Hey hey, surprise, surprise, surprise. Mexico's electoral court ruled that claims of fraud are bs and that the election results changed little in the districts in which a recount was ordered. Link. Lopez Obrador, naturally, accepted the court's ruling and urged... Oh, no, wait. He's threatening to plunge the country into chaos. Nice guy, real patriot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 28, 2006 Share Posted August 28, 2006 QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Aug 28, 2006 -> 02:24 PM) Hey hey, surprise, surprise, surprise. Mexico's electoral court ruled that claims of fraud are bs and that the election results changed little in the districts in which a recount was ordered. Link. Lopez Obrador, naturally, accepted the court's ruling and urged... Oh, no, wait. He's threatening to plunge the country into chaos. Nice guy, real patriot. Well, the last time the U.S. had a disputed Presidential election, the opponent dropped out after the high court ruled, and then the winner decided to plunge the country into chaos, so at least the Mexicans are getting the chaos out of the way early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted August 28, 2006 Share Posted August 28, 2006 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Aug 28, 2006 -> 06:50 PM) Well, the last time the U.S. had a disputed Presidential election, the opponent dropped out after the high court ruled, and then the winner decided to plunge the country into chaos, so at least the Mexicans are getting the chaos out of the way early. Unfair, Balta. He plunged another country into chaos. We got out with mere disarray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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