White Sox may be in trouble

[BigSqwert]

Not even the WORLD SERIES?

Boy we are spoiled.

But why shoot for anything else? We have a championship caliber team. Shooting for the playoffs is for losers. I guess that's why I respect Steinbrenner so much. Anything short of a WS title is considered a failure and I am glad Kenny thinks the same way.

[Milkman delivers]

But why shoot for anything else?

 

Because it suits the argument.

 

Let's be honest. We all have the WS as the goal for this year.

Edited July 3, 2006 by Milkman delivers

[RibbieRubarb]

Well, I have to admit that the idea of finishing in third is a little ridiculous, but it is very plausible that we don't even make it back to the WS if our starters continue to be as bad as they have been.

Without a doubt.

 

If our starters continue to have control problems, we could not repeat this year.

But to say the Twins will pass us and we'll not make the playoffs when we've won 8 series in a row is a bit silly. The atmosphere here seems like we've been on a extended losing streak. We haven't.

 

The MAJOR difference between this team and the 2002/2003/2004 "slug it out and hope for a win" White Sox teams is we have WON, we know what it takes to win. We also have a veteran, starting staff that knows how to turn it around and a coach that won't let them forget.

[bmags]

you know i've made fun of VAfan as much as anyone...but he makes legit points here. How long will our offense cover up for our defensive and pitching woes?

[Milkman delivers]

If our starters continue to have control problems, we could not repeat this year.

But to say the Twins will pass us and we'll not make the playoffs when we've won 8 series in a row is a bit silly. The atmosphere here seems like we've been on a extended losing streak. We haven't.

 

The MAJOR difference between this team and the 2002/2003/2004 "slug it out and hope for a win" White Sox teams is we have WON, we know what it takes to win. We also have a veteran, starting staff that knows how to turn it around and a coach that won't let them forget.

 

As I said, I agree with the first paragraph. We have to remember, though, that we're halfway through the year, and some of our starters are still awful. That's scary.

[BigSqwert]

you know i've made fun of VAfan as much as anyone...but he makes legit points here. How long will our offense cover up for our defensive and pitching woes?

Indeed. That's why I think it would have been smarter for Ozzie to give Crede the 6th spot for the ASG instead of Mark. It wouldn't hurt to have our pitchers have some extra rest especially after a shortened off season.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

this thread is going to be some great comedy in about three months

 

 

3 months hell...........this thread is great comedy TODAY.

 

 

[LosMediasBlancas]

3 months hell...........this thread is great comedy TODAY.

 

 

We'll never learn em' :headshake

[bighurt574]

Our pitching has struggled at times, yet we are still on pace to win 106 games, and currently have a 6-game lead for the wild card. The Sox have won 8 straight series (including against Detroit, St. Louis, and Houston) and are coming off a 19-8 June. I'm not too worried yet.

[Queen Prawn]

Unless the starting pitching begins to improve I don't like our chances of repeating. And lets face it, the Sox are not known to be a great 2nd half team in recent years. Even in their championship year they dropped off considerably in the 2nd half.

 

I have got to agree with you. The starting pitching this year, seems to be extremely streaky for some reason or another.

[henry wiggins]

The sky is falling.

 

 

And we're all dying.

 

You know, I thought yesterday that when this season is over, no matter where the Sox end up, I am probably going to wish I'd chilled out more DURING the season and enjoyed it more and worried about the outcome less.

 

I've been a Sox fan since before most of the posters on this board were even born, and you know what? This is as good as it gets. This TOTALLY ROCKS -- a WS Championship team, most of the members of that team back for a second run, and the new members making the current team even better -- this is a fantastic, fun season. I love going to the games. I love so many of the players on this team, I have that stupid "I feel like they're family" feeling you get when you really get caught up with a sports team.

 

I could get hit by a bus tomorrow and never know, much less care, who plays in the 2006 World Series. Live in the moment: this is bliss. After 39 years of bad, terrible, mediocre, pretty good, dreadful, embarrassing, hopeful, and lamentable teams -- this is bliss.

[bmags]

so what are we supposed to talk about, everyone? Just how great everything is? Gets boring real quick. If we can never bring up our weaknesses this site is gonna go down the drain.

[Jake]

The starters haven't done well lately, and every team has stints during the season where they don't play well. The nice thing is, our team is so good that we aren't playing well and still winning at a championship pace. I believe that it's a safe assumption that our starters will return to form sooner rather than later, with the possible exception of Vasquez, who seems to always underachieve. (However, the Cooper fix took almost a year on Contreras, not that I advocate promoting a season of mediocrity before he does well.)

[RME JICO]

VAFan,

Based off all of their career numbers, most of our starting pitchers will be better in the second half which will bring their numbers closer to their career numbers. Garland, Garcia, and Vazquez all should be better the rest of the season evening their numbers out. It is a concern, but until the Sox start losing series, then I wouldn't worry too much.

 

The averaging will also work against Detroit's pitchers; Bonderman, Maroth (on DL), and Robertson all have ERAs 1 to 1.5 pts lower than their career numbers. This will average out over the remainder of the season. Also, Detroit has a rough schedule in August (Sox-7, MIN-3, BOS-3, NYY-3, MIN-3, CLE-6, TB-3) and they will likely drop during this stretch. If they are in the lead going into September, they will more than likely hold on.

 

Minnesota cannot rely on just two pitchers. They also cannot win every game these two guys pitch, that will just not happen. There will be numerous games that they at least get a ND on and the Twins lose. The Twins are hot but you cannot realistically expect them to maintain a .700 winning percentage for the remainder of the season. It is possible, but unlikely.

 

Win the game, win the series.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Pitching and defense win championships. We proved that ourselves last season. That being said I think the staff will tighten things up in the second half cause these guys are too good to have a bad stretch much longer than they already have.

[Dick Allen]

To compare this year and last is a mistake IMO. Last year, the pitching was lights out. This year the offense has carried this team for the most part. The pitching needs to improve. As unlikely as Minnesota and Detroit are to keep up their current paces, the White Sox offense is equally unlikely to keep up its current pace. If someone where to tell you the Sox would score 11 runs Sunday against the Cubs, you would have thought there was a 99.999% probability they would win. I don't think its being pessimistic at all to think if the pitching continues to perform how its been performing, that there is a very good chance there will be no playoff baseball in Chicago this year. The good news is that most on the staff have at least some hope of performing better in the second half, at least ERA-wise. The notion that this is the best 5 man rotation ever assembled is really pretty crazy. You can't call something the best until their performance is complete. Hopefully in October we can say that it was the best, or among the best, but right now its pretty average.

[chitownsportsfan]

We're halfway through the season and our ERA has rose like nearly one point since last year. So yes, I don't see it as being overly pessimistic to be concerned about our starting pitching.

 

Nobody is heralding the s***ty way the SP have performed over the last month, but many of us thought that a number of guys--Buehrle, Count, and Garland--had career years last year and that it would impossible to duplicate.

 

So we're not that surprised. KW thought this too, which is why he beefed up the offense.

 

Roll with it, it's a long season and we're just at the halfway mark.

[Frankensteiner]

You don't understand. There is no middle ground on Soxtalk. You're either completely optimistic 100% of the time in people's eyes, or you're completely negative 100% of the time. I'm very pessimistic admittedly, but a lot of other people catch tons of s*** just for mentioning one negative thing. Then, you get all the people saying they're overreacting or saying the sky is falling.

 

That right there is soxtalk in a nutshell. You can't voice legitimate concerns about the team without someone jumping down your throat.

[BigSqwert]

That right there is soxtalk in a nutshell. You can't voice legitimate concerns about the team without someone jumping down your throat.

As lons as we're civil about it I don't care. Makes visiting the site a bit more entertaining.

[jackie hayes]

I wonder if Ozzie shouldn't have left Buehrle and Contreras off the AS team -- neither deserved the nods based on the way they have been pitching lately -- and just shut them down to get some rest.

 

Wait...

How does Contreras not deserve an AS spot?

 

Contreras was voted in on the players' ballot, Ozzie didn't have a choice on that one. Oz only picked PK, Mark, and Bobby (iirc).

[whitesoxmanager]

excellent post....this is spot on!

 

i think that the all-star break will bring some much needed rest...the second half is going to be very interesting indeed!

 

this is one hell of a divisional race...with arguments to be made on all 3 teams!

 

probably injuries will play some part in determining the second half results...we are already in a helluva hot summer...no way to factor that in

 

las vegas still has us penciled in as the 2nd best odds behind the NY Mess to win the WS...for whatever thats worth

 

tigers got to the 40 win mark first and historically that team is the one that has high% WS winners. fyi...we were the first last year....

 

one thing is that no matter what happens with the CWS they will be busting their azzes for us FANS and i wont say nothing wrong about guys who are willing to do that for me! the only thing i will do is cry....thats for sure....when we lose i will be so disappointed that the tears will come....and if we win the WS well there will be certainly heroes that get em rollin with a smile! FACT!

 

 

 

 

 

 

QUOTE(VAfan @ Jul 3, 2006 -> 08:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Anyone noticed that the Twins are now 45-35, having won 18 of 19? Or that we still trail the 56-26 Tigers?

 

If our pitching doesn't find a way to improve itself, we could very easily finish third to these two clubs.

 

In June, the Tigers ERA was 3.32. The Twins, with 2 automatic victories out of every 5 games when Santana or Liriano take the mound, was even better, at 2.76.

 

Where was ours? 20th in baseball, at 4.74 runs a game. That's not counting the 15-spot the Cubs -- THE CUBS (who have the worst offense in baseball) -- laid on us yesterday, or the 6 they tallied the day before.

 

Sure, we scored more runs in June than any team. 173 runs. That was 16 more than the Tigers, who came in second. But, because of the woeful pitching, we lost games 10-9 and 15-11 (the latter in July). That's not going to cut it for very long. It's hard to sustain winning streaks without solid starting pitching to sustain it.

 

With Santana and Liriano penciled in for winning 4 out of every 10 games and the rest of the Twins starters capable of at least splitting the other 6 games, the Twins could win 100 games. (A 7-3 pace every 10 games actually would leave them at 102 or 103 wins.) After all, the Tigers went 55-25 in the first half. Why can't the Twins match that in the second half? (They may have the two best starters in baseball.)

 

And, to win 100 games too, the Tigers need only go 44-36, which shouldn't be too hard if their pitching doesn't collapse. (Their offense can win them games too.)

 

But can we win 100+ games without better pitching? I think it could be tough. We have 12 games against the Twins, 13 against Detroit, 12 against the Yanks and Boston, 6 in Oakland/LA, 3 at Toronto, 4 with Seattle and 7 more against Cleveland. That's 57 games against winning teams or teams that play us tough.

 

We are still projecting last year's starters onto this year's team. But the June ERA's of our starters has been pathetic: Vazquez 7.50, Contreras 6.21, Garcia 4.81, Garland 4.50, Buehrle 3.89 (until yesterday's debacle). There isn't a single pitcher in there who would have a chance against the Twins or Tigers starters at the moment.

 

A week ago, I said I wouldn't trade our guys for anyone else's guys. But after this latest spell of horrible pitching, I'm convinced we need a break. I wonder if Ozzie shouldn't have left Buehrle and Contreras off the AS team -- neither deserved the nods based on the way they have been pitching lately -- and just shut them down to get some rest. I'm not sure what else is going to work. We can't swap these guys out. And McCarthy can't sub for more than one of them, and even that would seem drastic. They are just going to have to suck it up and get it done.

 

I'm not going to ever give up on these guys. GO WHITE SOX!! 2006 WORLD SERIES CHAMPS!!!

 

Let's just say I'm concerned.

Edited July 3, 2006 by whitesoxmanager

[G&T]

The only thing about the Twins that I find suspicious is that they've been winning a lot of games against the NL. They weren't too scary a month ago, but now they look like world beaters. Despite all their winning they haven't gained much ground and will now have to face the AL again. I realize they have Santana and Liriano, but their offense isn't too frightening which means there's little room for error. Right now things are a bit skewed by inter-league play.

That being said, it would really be nice if the pitching would come around. Giving up 15 runs to the worst offense in baseball is real bad.

[RibbieRubarb]

That right there is soxtalk in a nutshell. You can't voice legitimate concerns about the team without someone jumping down your throat.

 

:headshake

[RME JICO]

The only thing about the Twins that I find suspicious is that they've been winning a lot of games against the NL. They weren't too scary a month ago, but now they look like world beaters. Despite all their winning they haven't gained much ground and will now have to face the AL again. I realize they have Santana and Liriano, but their offense isn't too frightening which means there's little room for error. Right now things are a bit skewed by inter-league play.

That being said, it would really be nice if the pitching would come around. Giving up 15 runs to the worst offense in baseball is real bad.

 

You are correct, they are only 8-18 vs the Central so far; that is not going to get them very far in the 2nd half.

[Frankensteiner]

:headshake

 

Have you been reading the threads here? I mean Jesus, just start with this one.