Greg The Bull Luzinski Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 QUOTE(shoota @ Jul 8, 2006 -> 05:42 PM) f*** career averages. Answer me this: What do you see in Freddy Garcia, Javier Vazquez and Jon Garland that makes you think they're 3/5 of a 2006 Championship caliber team? Add to this Freddy loss of velocity among other problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 QUOTE(shoota @ Jul 8, 2006 -> 05:42 PM) f*** career averages. Answer me this: What do you see in Freddy Garcia, Javier Vazquez and Jon Garland that makes you think they're 3/5 of a 2006 Championship caliber team? You can find weak links on EVERY team. Besides, two of the three were part of a champion last year that had a much weaker offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoota Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Jul 8, 2006 -> 05:45 PM) Since when do you have to lead the league in every category to win it all? Even assuming our pitching stays this bad, which it probably won't, we've got the #1 offense in the league. That's enough to get you through the regular season, and the playoffs is a crap shoot. The f*** it is. The best team in baseball won the World Series last season and did so in a dominating manner. They didn't get "hot at the right time," they played to their ability and beat teams that were inferior to them. QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Jul 8, 2006 -> 05:47 PM) You can find weak links on EVERY team. Besides, two of the three were part of a champion last year that had a much weaker offense. What do you see in Freddy Garcia, Javier Vazquez and Jon Garland that makes you think they're 3/5 of a 2006 Championship caliber team? Perhaps you missed the "2006" part of the question, so here is the question again, now partly bolded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 and the playoffs is a crap shoot. Shoota the playoffs are indeed a crap shoot. We did indeed get hot at the right time. C'mon. I mean if the Royals centerfielder doesn't drop that fly ball, Cleve. sweeps the 4-game series in KC and we may not make the playoffs. Our momentum was awesome in the playoffs and our pitching was great after not being so hot in parts of September. Shoota KW knows this team has some weaknesses but look around baseball. Our pitching is still good compared to other AL teams, except maybe Detroit, if those bastards keep it up. Shoota can you deny the Sox first half is worthy of an A? The White Sox get an A for the first half. The Tigers get an A-plus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(shoota @ Jul 8, 2006 -> 05:57 PM) The f*** it is. The best team in baseball won the World Series last season and did so in a dominating manner. They didn't get "hot at the right time," they played to their ability and beat teams that were inferior to them. What do you see in Freddy Garcia, Javier Vazquez and Jon Garland that makes you think they're 3/5 of a 2006 Championship caliber team? Perhaps you missed the "2006" part of the question, so here is the question again, now partly bolded. The best team doesn't always win, and neither do the best players. Our starting pitching was solid, but our offense and bullpen were considered to be major question marks. Apparently we're using revisionist history, because just about every expert and a lot of people on here were writing us off, both before and after we started to lose our division lead. If that were the case, we wouldn't have gotten by Boston's monster of an offense, or beaten Clemens, Pettitte and Oswalt. It's all about how they're playing at that time on that day. First off, they don't make up 3/5 of the team. Second, You could ask the same question about a lot of teams. Are Matt Clement, David Wells, and Jon Lester 3/5 of a championship rotation? What about Chien Min Wang, Jarrett Wright, an aging Randy Johnson, and god knows who as 4/5 of a rotation? Steve Trachsel, Alain Soler, and Brian Bannister? This isn't uniquely our problem. A lot of contenders are short on pitching. In fact, Detroit is probably the only one that isn't, and that's assuming all of these guys can keep it up. Even they have Todd Jones as a closer. The difference is that we actually have guys with talent that have done it before, unlike the other teams. Edited July 8, 2006 by ZoomSlowik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankensteiner Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Jul 8, 2006 -> 05:45 PM) Since when do you have to lead the league in every category to win it all? Even assuming our pitching stays this bad, which it probably won't, we've got the #1 offense in the league. That's enough to get you through the regular season, and the playoffs is a crap shoot. The playoffs are a crap shoot? Since when? QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Jul 8, 2006 -> 05:47 PM) You can find weak links on EVERY team. Besides, two of the three were part of a champion last year that had a much weaker offense. I'll take a weaker offense over weaker pitching any day of the week. The fact that those players were part of a championship team doesn't mean much though, because as you said, the playoffs are crap shoot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoota Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Jul 8, 2006 -> 06:04 PM) The best team doesn't always win, and neither do the best players. Our starting pitching was solid, but our offense and bullpen were considered to be major question marks. Apparently we're using revisionist history, because just about every expert and a lot of people on here were writing us off, both before and after we started to lose our division lead. If that were the case, we wouldn't have gotten by Boston's monster of an offense, or beaten Clemens, Pettitte and Oswalt. It's all about how they're playing at that time on that day. First off, they don't make up 3/5 of the team. Second, You could ask the same question about a lot of teams. Are Matt Clement, David Wells, and Jon Lester 3/5 of a championship rotation? What about Chien Min Wang, Jarrett Wright, an aging Randy Johnson, and god knows who as 4/5 of a rotation? Steve Trachsel, Alain Soler, and Brian Bannister? This isn't uniquely our problem. A lot of contenders are short on pitching. In fact, Detroit is probably the only one that isn't, and that's assuming all of these guys can keep it up. Even they have Todd Jones as a closer. The difference is that we actually have guys with talent that have done it before, unlike the other teams. You're saying the Sox shouldn't upgrade their bad starting pitching because other contending teams also have bad starting pitching. Since the objective is to be better than other teams and not "just as good," that's reason enough to upgrade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo's Drinker Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 QUOTE(shoota @ Jul 8, 2006 -> 06:42 PM) You're saying the Sox shouldn't upgrade their bad starting pitching because other contending teams also have bad starting pitching. Since the objective is to be better than other teams and not "just as good," that's reason enough to upgrade. the team looks exhausted, lets go to the break and table this discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 QUOTE(shoota @ Jul 8, 2006 -> 06:42 PM) You're saying the Sox shouldn't upgrade their bad starting pitching because other contending teams also have bad starting pitching. Since the objective is to be better than other teams and not "just as good," that's reason enough to upgrade. You're not going to find anyone better than what we already have out there. Unless you want to give up Josh Fields and possibly another prospect or two for crap, this is what our rotation is going to look like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyWhiteSox Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 QUOTE(shoota @ Jul 8, 2006 -> 05:42 PM) f*** career averages. Answer me this: What do you see in Freddy Garcia, Javier Vazquez and Jon Garland that makes you think they're 3/5 of a 2006 Championship caliber team? Just choose the hottest 2 of those 3 at the end of the year to start in the playoffs... Holy f***, do some of you really think assembling the perfect team is even feasible??? THIS IS A CHAMPIONSHIP-CALIBER TEAM AS IS!!! Kenny will bolster it as much as possible within reason for the stretch run before the deadline. Let's just get to the playoffs, best record in baseball or not, and see what happens. I have plenty of faith in this team.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoota Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Jul 8, 2006 -> 08:15 PM) You're not going to find anyone better than what we already have out there. Unless you want to give up Josh Fields and possibly another prospect or two for crap, this is what our rotation is going to look like. It's KW's job to find better pitchers than the ones he's assembled. If he wants to win another World Series, he will. QUOTE(SleepyWhiteSox @ Jul 8, 2006 -> 10:22 PM) Just choose the hottest 2 of those 3 at the end of the year to start in the playoffs... Holy f***, do some of you really think assembling the perfect team is even feasible??? THIS IS A CHAMPIONSHIP-CALIBER TEAM AS IS!!! Kenny will bolster it as much as possible within reason for the stretch run before the deadline. Let's just get to the playoffs, best record in baseball or not, and see what happens. I have plenty of faith in this team.... Assembling a perfect team isn't feasible, but there's a HUGE gap between perfection and the 2006 White Sox. KW can find and trade for better starting pitching while drunk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 Assembling a perfect team isn't feasible, but there's a HUGE gap between perfection and the 2006 White Sox. KW can find and trade for better starting pitching while drunk. Cmon shoota. Get a grip. Mark B, Contreras, Freddy, Jon and Vazzy is a GREAT rotation. And McCarthy is there in case of injury. They have been inconsistent, but there is no reason to replace any one of those guys!!! Shoota tell me which one of our five starters you want to be replaced and with whom? You probably wish we woulda got Weaver, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoota Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 QUOTE(greg775 @ Jul 8, 2006 -> 10:52 PM) Cmon shoota. Get a grip. Mark B, Contreras, Freddy, Jon and Vazzy is a GREAT rotation. And McCarthy is there in case of injury. They have been inconsistent, but there is no reason to replace any one of those guys!!! Shoota tell me which one of our five starters you want to be replaced and with whom? You probably wish we woulda got Weaver, right? Hopefully KW can get rid of both Garcia and Vazquez, but if he can only upgrade one, Garcia. I don't know who to realistically replace them with since GMing isn't my job and I don't have the contacts KW has to call around. If I did have contact with every other team, I'd call the Padres because Woody Williams is at the top of my list. Then I'd call the Cubs about Prior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 QUOTE(shoota @ Jul 8, 2006 -> 09:28 PM) If I did have contact with every other team, I'd call the Padres because Woody Williams is at the top of my list. Then I'd call the Cubs about Prior. The Cubs would be happy to take some combination of McCarthy and another player off our hands for Prior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoota Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 8, 2006 -> 11:54 PM) The Cubs would be happy to take some combination of McCarthy and another player off our hands for Prior. I'd gladly trade McCarthy and Montero for Prior and Williamson/Eyre/Dempster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(shoota @ Jul 9, 2006 -> 01:03 AM) I'd gladly trade McCarthy and Montero for Prior and Williamson/Eyre/Dempster. Why do you want to ruin McCarthy's arm/career by sending him over to Dusty? Thats just downright mean, he seems like a great guy. Edited July 9, 2006 by Felix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 QUOTE(shoota @ Jul 9, 2006 -> 12:03 AM) I'd gladly trade McCarthy and Montero for Prior and Williamson/Eyre/Dempster. Congratulations, the cubs just ass raped us in that deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoota Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 QUOTE(SoxAce @ Jul 9, 2006 -> 12:16 AM) Congratulations, the cubs just ass raped us in that deal. How so? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 How exactly would Mark Prior help the Sox win this year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 9, 2006 -> 12:17 AM) How exactly would Mark Prior help the Sox win this year? 7 era's and injuries=helpful, duh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoota Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 9, 2006 -> 12:17 AM) How exactly would Mark Prior help the Sox win this year? By pitching better than Freddy G, Vazquez and Garland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 QUOTE(shoota @ Jul 9, 2006 -> 12:20 AM) By pitching better than Freddy G, Vazquez and Garland. He should probably do that first in the NL before he comes over to a league that is 10 times better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoota Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jul 9, 2006 -> 12:21 AM) He should probably do that first in the NL before he comes over to a league that is 10 times better. It's better to trade for a player when his value is low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 QUOTE(shoota @ Jul 9, 2006 -> 12:20 AM) By pitching better than Freddy G, Vazquez and Garland. 1.) He's been horrid when healthy this year. 2.) Those 3 may have sucked this year but to say that another pitcher can be more productive while on the DL than the bottom of the Sox rotation when they're healty is just cruel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 QUOTE(shoota @ Jul 9, 2006 -> 01:22 AM) It's better to trade for a player when his value is low. Yet in this deal, the Sox would be giving up McCarthy, which means that we would be drastically overpaying, assuming you think that Priors value is 'low'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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