White Sox may be in trouble

[Rowand44]

It's better to trade for a player when his value is low.

So this is what I've gathered from you: Lets trade our best prospect(calling bmac a spect since he's gonna be a starter but is in the pen now) for a pitcher who used to be good but has just sucked so far this year and is an injury risk, yet lets also trade Chris Widger for Miguel Olivo because Olivo is having a good year but Widger has the history of being able to handle a pitching staff well.

[shoota]

1.) He's been horrid when healthy this year.

2.) Those 3 may have sucked this year but to say that another pitcher can be more productive while on the DL than the bottom of the Sox rotation when they're healty is just cruel.

 

Very possible you're right, but I'd still prefer to take my chances with the guy I believe to be the better pitcher, Prior, than the one who is worse and has lost his fastball, Garcia.

[Rowand44]

Very possible you're right, but I'd still prefer to take my chances with the guy I believe to be the better pitcher, Prior, than the one who is worse and has lost his fastball, Garcia.

Prior since he's come back has been clocked at around 91ish fyi. He used to throw about 95-96, so.....

[shoota]

Yet in this deal, the Sox would be giving up McCarthy, which means that we would be drastically overpaying, assuming you think that Priors value is 'low'.

 

Sure. McCarthy's a good pitcher, but if Ozzie plays favorites and won't let him start over worse pitchers, I'd be happy to trade him for Prior.

 

Prior since he's come back has been clocked at around 91ish fyi. He used to throw about 95-96, so.....

 

Good point, but Prior's decrease in velocity has to do with recovering from injury while Freddy's loss has to do with either A) loss in ability, or B ) stopped taking performance enhancers. Whether it's reason A or B, Prior is much more likely to recover his velocity and even if he doesn't, would still be the better pitcher of the two.

Edited July 9, 2006 by shoota

[Rowand44]

Sure. McCarthy's a good pitcher, but if Ozzie plays favorites and won't let him start over worse pitchers, I'd be happy to trade him for Prior.

Good point, but Prior's decrease in velocity has to do with recovering from injury while Freddy's loss has to do with either A) loss in ability, or B ) stopped taking performance enhancers. Whether it's reason A or B, Prior is much more likely to recover his velocity and if not, still be the better pitcher of the two.

And it is very possible that all of the injuries have taken their toll on Mark and he will never get his velocity back.

[Kalapse]

Good point, but Prior's decrease in velocity has to do with recovering from injury while Freddy's loss has to do with either A) loss in ability, or B ) stopped taking performance enhancers. Whether it's reason A or B, Prior is much more likely to recover his velocity and if not, still be the better pitcher of the two.

So what is this "injury" that Prior had? His elbow suddenly gives out on him for no apparent reason and this doesn't bother you?

[shoota]

And it is very possible that all of the injuries have taken their toll on Mark and he will never get his velocity back.

 

And even at 91-92 he'd still be a better pitcher than Garcia.

[Kalapse]

And even at 91-92 he'd still be a better pitcher than Garcia.

He's proving otherwise right now.

[Rowand44]

And even at 91-92 he'd still be a better pitcher than Garcia.

And of course he's proven that already this season.

[shoota]

So what is this "injury" that Prior had? His elbow suddenly gives out on him for no apparent reason and this doesn't bother you?

 

Yeah, I've been following him very closely, and I still think the Cubs were hiding something, but if the Sox medical staff says he's healthy, I'll take the risk.

 

The kid was so dominant in 2003 that I can't imagine him not finding that form again. I think getting away from the Cubs organization would be very beneficial to Prior. I'm curious to see what Cooper could do with a talent like Prior.

[SoxAce]

So this is what I've gathered from you: Lets trade our best prospect(calling bmac a spect since he's gonna be a starter but is in the pen now) for a pitcher who used to be good but has just sucked so far this year and is an injury risk, yet lets also trade Chris Widger for Miguel Olivo because Olivo is having a good year but Widger has the history of being able to handle a pitching staff well.

 

I'm glad there's people like him in this world who will never sniff a GM job in any profession.

 

Prior has only pitched 200+ innings once in his whole career and even that year he got injured. He's gotten injured every year he's been in the bigs. Ever since his 03 season (where I say those are his career numbers) he's era, hits per innings pitched, earned runs, hr's, and walks have all incresed and his strikeouts have decresed (even though I'll give him that he's still has a nice K's per 9 innings pitched going for him) and I'm not going to even say he's only 14 games above .500 for his career whereas Freddy is 42 games above .500.

 

Not that I'm defending Freddy this year, but I will defend he is a better "pitcher" than Prior regardless of Prior having the better stuff (even though that stuff of his is not the same or is his increased age.) I will back Freddy's career numbers if you like and post more comments but I don't feel that's nesessary.

[shoota]

He's proving otherwise right now.

 

True. Like I said though, getting away from Rothschild and Baker could help him tremendously, and pairing him with Coop could be magical.

Edited July 9, 2006 by shoota

[SoxAce]

True. Like I said though, getting away from Rothschild and Baker could help him tremendously, and pairing him with Coop could be magical.

 

Not even Coop can help with an injury.

[shoota]

I'm glad there's people like him in this world who will never sniff a GM job in any profession.

 

Prior has only pitched 200+ innings once in his whole career and even that year he got injured. He's gotten injured every year he's been in the bigs. Ever since his 03 season (where I say those are his career numbers) he's era, hits per innings pitched, earned runs, hr's, and walks have all incresed and his strikeouts have decresed (even though I'll give him that he's still has a nice K's per 9 innings pitched going for him) and I'm not going to even say he's only 14 games above .500 for his career whereas Freddy is 42 games above .500.

 

Not that I'm defending Freddy this year, but I will defend he is a better "pitcher" than Prior regardless of Prior having the better stuff (even though that stuff of his is not the same or is his increased age.) I will back Freddy's career numbers if you like and post more comments but I don't feel that's nesessary.

 

Comparing the careers of Freddy and Prior is irrelevent to the original discussion of who could better help the Sox more in 2006. Freddy's career numbers, like being 42 games above .500, have less influence on his 2006 performance than his diminishing fastball.

[SoxAce]

Comparing the careers of Freddy and Prior is irrelevent to the original discussion of who could better help the Sox more in 2006 Freddy's career numbers, like being 42 games above .500, have less influence on his 2006 performance than his diminishing fastball.

 

Okay.

 

Freddy- 10 5 4.91 18 18 1 0 0 0 113.2 130 65 62 20 28 66

Mark- 0 4 7.71 4 4 0 0 0 0 21.0 27 20 18 5 10 22

 

You still think Prior can help us?

[Kyyle23]

Why is it that Cooper can help the Cubs injury-problem pitchers, but he can not help the White Sox pitchers?

[shoota]

Okay.

 

Freddy- 10 5 4.91 18 18 1 0 0 0 113.2 130 65 62 20 28 66

Mark- 0 4 7.71 4 4 0 0 0 0 21.0 27 20 18 5 10 22

 

You still think Prior can help us?

 

 

Your stats don't take into account how Prior would pitch over the rest of the season if he were off the Cubs and on the Sox. I think Prior could benefit from a change in scenery more than any other player in baseball, and the fact that he'd be coming to a winner with a great pitching coach means he'd be likely to perform better than Garcia would.

[Kyyle23]

Your stats don't take into account how Prior would pitch over the rest of the season if he were off the Cubs and on the Sox. I think Prior could benefit from a change in scenery more than any other player in baseball, and the fact that he'd be coming to a winner with a great pitching coach means he'd be likely to perform better than Garcia would.

 

Why is it that Cooper can turn Prior around but not Garcia? Seems like with you the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.

 

And your assertion that Prior would pitch better if traded is unfounded and something that can not be taken into consideration. For all we know Prior could come to the Sox and throw one pitch and blow out his elbow, shoulder, calf muscle, etc.

Edited July 9, 2006 by kyyle23

[Kalapse]

I still don't understand how Coop is going to magically heal Prior.

[Kyyle23]

I still don't understand how Coop is going to magically heal Prior.

 

Coop apparently has magic dust for everyone except White Sox pitchers

[shoota]

Why is it that Cooper can turn Prior around but not Garcia? Seems like with you the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.

 

I answered that earlier:

 

Good point, but Prior's decrease in velocity has to do with recovering from injury while Freddy's loss has to do with either A) loss in ability, or B ) stopped taking performance enhancers. Whether it's reason A or B, Prior is much more likely to recover his velocity and even if he doesn't, would still be the better pitcher of the two.

 

Keep in mind, Prior currently has more velocity than Garcia.

[Kyyle23]

I answered that earlier:

 

Good point, but Prior's decrease in velocity has to do with recovering from injury while Freddy's loss has to do with either A) loss in ability, or B ) stopped taking performance enhancers. Whether it's reason A or B, Prior is much more likely to recover his velocity and even if he doesn't, would still be the better pitcher of the two.

 

Keep in mind, Prior currently has more velocity than Garcia.

 

 

Ah, i see. More assertions and unproven points.

[shoota]

Why is it that Cooper can turn Prior around but not Garcia? Seems like with you the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.

 

And your assertion that Prior would pitch better if traded is unfounded and something that can not be taken into consideration. For all we know Prior could come to the Sox and throw one pitch and blow out his elbow, shoulder, calf muscle, etc.

 

Correct, which is why I've been stating, "I believe" instead of "I guarantee."

[SoxAce]

Your stats don't take into account how Prior would pitch over the rest of the season if he were off the Cubs and on the Sox. I think Prior could benefit from a change in scenery more than any other player in baseball, and the fact that he'd be coming to a winner with a great pitching coach means he'd be likely to perform better than Garcia would.

 

Ya he would pitched worse. Prior can barely get anyone out in the weak ass NL. He would get his ass bloody if he had to go to the far superior AL. It is usually easier for a hitter to benefit from a change of scenery than a pitcher. Coop cannot help with a pitcher who has been injured each year he's had a major league uniform on. Prior won't suddenly regain his fastball if he's traded. It makes no sense whatsoever. But I should be expecting that from.... (fill in blank) every time.

 

Keep in mind, Prior currently has more velocity than Garcia.

 

You do understand that Freddy is purposely doing this and Prior isn't right? And you act like Freddy was throwing 95+ to begin with. I have seen him this season throwing 85 to 94 (his high) When he feels to he will throw harder usually in the later innings.

Edited July 9, 2006 by SoxAce

[shoota]

I still don't understand how Coop is going to magically heal Prior.

 

I don't think he's hurt. None of this year's medical testing has shown that he's hurt.

 

I think Prior doesn't want to pitch for the Cubs and be abused by Dusty, hence why I believe he'd benefit from a trade.

 

Ah, i see. More assertions and unproven points.

 

Of Prior and Garcia, who do you believe is more likely to recover his lost velocity?