Soxbadger Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 Since when does velocity equal success? But to the original question, I think the White Sox will play in october and will have one of the top 2 rotations in the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoota Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 QUOTE(SoxAce @ Jul 9, 2006 -> 01:05 AM) Ya he would pitched worse. Prior can barely get anyone out in the weak ass NL. He would get his ass bloody if he had to go to the far superior AL. It is usually easier for a hitter to benefit from a change of scenery than a pitcher. Coop cannot help with a pitcher who has been injured each year he's had a major league uniform on. Prior won't suddenly regain his fastball if he's traded. It makes no sense whatsoever. But I should be expecting that from.... (fill in blank) every time. You do understand that Freddy is purposely doing this and Prior isn't right? And you act like Freddy was throwing 95+ to begin with. I have seen him this season throwing 85 to 95 (his high) When he feels to he will throw harder usually in the later innings. LOL QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Jul 9, 2006 -> 01:07 AM) Since when does velocity equal success? But to the original question, I think the White Sox will play in october and will have one of the top 2 rotations in the playoffs. Good point, velocity doesn't equal success, I was only saying it does in the case of Freddy Garcia since he's proven to be a worse pitcher than he was when he had it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 QUOTE(shoota @ Jul 9, 2006 -> 01:06 AM) I don't think he's hurt. None of this year's medical testing has shown that he's hurt. I think Prior doesn't want to pitch for the Cubs and be abused by Dusty, hence why I believe he'd benefit from a trade. If that's the case then I don't want him anywhere near the Sox. He doesn't particularly like his coach so he's faking injuries and throwing games? That's just dispicable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoota Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 9, 2006 -> 01:13 AM) If that's the case then I don't want him anywhere near the Sox. He doesn't particularly like his coach so he's faking injuries and throwing games? That's just dispicable. I never said Prior has thrown a game. I simply think he's worried about the health of his body and doesn't want to be abused by a manager who has no idea how to manage pitchers. Either way, that was pure speculation on my part, and it added nothing worthy to the discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 Over his career Garcia has posted plenty of off years. It's not necessarily his velocity, just hes an inconsistent pitcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoota Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Jul 9, 2006 -> 01:22 AM) Over his career Garcia has posted plenty of off years. It's not necessarily his velocity, just hes an inconsistent pitcher. Yes, he's had some off years, but none as bad as this one. Since this is his worst season, it's reasonable to say his loss in velocity has something to do with his ineffective pitching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Jul 9, 2006 -> 01:22 AM) Over his career Garcia has posted plenty of off years. It's not necessarily his velocity, just hes an inconsistent pitcher. Nice post. I had the article on Freddy wanting to use more movement on his fastball when throwing 88-93 than throwing a 95+ mph fastball straight but your post just narrows it down. What Freddy hasn't been doing lately is establishing the fastball. That would then set up his other pitches and actually make his fastball take over with his movement. That's what he relies on the most. Once he establishes his fastball, everything else carries itself. He's been going 1-0, 2-1, 3-1 alot lately from what I've seen of him. What I would question Freddy more than anything is his agressiveness. That "big game pitcher" instint he's not showing this year. That's what I don't like from him. it doesn't matter what velocity his fastball is, he has to establish it first. QUOTE(shoota @ Jul 9, 2006 -> 01:27 AM) Yes, he's had some off years, but none as bad as this one. Since this is his worst season, it's reasonable to say his loss in velocity has something to do with his ineffective pitching. My god... I think he's got it! -Jeffrey (fresh prince of bel air) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 There just is no way to know for sure. Plenty of pitchers experience dead arm. Perhaps it was the extra innings they pitched in the playoffs are catching up to them. Anyways, I just mainly disagree with the fact the Sox have to worry about not making the playoffs. Prior to the last 2 games they had i think an 8 game lead in the WC, now its down to 6. They have a deep pitching rotation with veterans and a solid offensive line up. One of the Red Sox, Yankees, and Tigers will fade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerfan Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 Actually the lead is down to 5 now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 This thread is :banghead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Sox Fan Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Jul 9, 2006 -> 12:22 AM) Over his career Garcia has posted plenty of off years. It's not necessarily his velocity, just hes an inconsistent pitcher. It's not that he's inconsistent -- he only pitches well in big games. Saturday's was not a big game, so he pitched lousy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoota Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Jul 9, 2006 -> 01:35 AM) There just is no way to know for sure. Plenty of pitchers experience dead arm. Perhaps it was the extra innings they pitched in the playoffs are catching up to them. Anyways, I just mainly disagree with the fact the Sox have to worry about not making the playoffs. Prior to the last 2 games they had i think an 8 game lead in the WC, now its down to 6. They have a deep pitching rotation with veterans and a solid offensive line up. One of the Red Sox, Yankees, and Tigers will fade. If just making the playoffs were my goal, I'd too be happy with Garcia, Vazquez and Garland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankensteiner Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 Just a reminder, the Sox have had the weakest schedule of any AL team up to this point. Those thumping their chest about the Tigers lack of success against good teams may want to think about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VAfan Posted July 10, 2006 Author Share Posted July 10, 2006 Wow, I don't know how this thread got hijacked for awhile into a discussion about Mark Prior, so let's get back to the topic at hand -- whether the Sox pitching is going to get fixed in the second half. Today was certainly a heroic performance by all concerned. Jermaine Dye hitting a HR off Papelbon in the bottom of the 9th to avoid a sweep. The Sox getting two back in the bottom of the 11th after Jenks got tagged for two two-out runs in his third inning. McCarthy going 4-1/3 innings of scoreless ball -- isn't that exactly the role he should have played all year?? Politte contributing a perfect inning for the win. Even Vazquez coming out of the pen to help out. In all, the bullpen pitched 13 innings and gave up 2 runs. That's tenacious. That's what the Sox are made of. Whereas other teams may go out and improve themselves at the trade deadline, the Sox really don't have any obvious place to turn for improvement. We aren't shipping off any of our starters or McCarthy. They are just going to have to find a way to do better. I tend to agree with those who believe the pitchers above their career averages -- Garcia, Vazquez, and Garland -- will all pitch better in the second half. For one thing, if our bullpen continues to improve, I think we'll see Ozzie much less often leaving them hang out to dry when they don't have it. So, in the pitching department, we're going to have to find a way to get our starters sharp again. Would adding a deeper bullpen help? Will Hermanson make it off the DL to contribute? Is there a bullpen arm out there who can reprise Cliff Politte's role from last year? (David Riske isn't it. He's helped us, but I wouldn't trust him that much with the game on the line.) I don't know what we're going to get from our pitching staff out of the break. I'm just glad we won today's game going into the break, and now have 4 days off to get ready for the second half. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 Shoota if you want Prior you are an alarmist. He's too injury prone. Relax our rotation is awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 QUOTE(VAfan @ Jul 9, 2006 -> 08:56 PM) Wow, I don't know how this thread got hijacked for awhile into a discussion about Mark Prior, so let's get back to the topic at hand -- whether the Sox pitching is going to get fixed in the second half. Today was certainly a heroic performance by all concerned. Jermaine Dye hitting a HR off Papelbon in the bottom of the 9th to avoid a sweep. The Sox getting two back in the bottom of the 11th after Jenks got tagged for two two-out runs in his third inning. McCarthy going 4-1/3 innings of scoreless ball -- isn't that exactly the role he should have played all year?? Politte contributing a perfect inning for the win. Even Vazquez coming out of the pen to help out. In all, the bullpen pitched 13 innings and gave up 2 runs. That's tenacious. That's what the Sox are made of. Whereas other teams may go out and improve themselves at the trade deadline, the Sox really don't have any obvious place to turn for improvement. We aren't shipping off any of our starters or McCarthy. They are just going to have to find a way to do better. I tend to agree with those who believe the pitchers above their career averages -- Garcia, Vazquez, and Garland -- will all pitch better in the second half. For one thing, if our bullpen continues to improve, I think we'll see Ozzie much less often leaving them hang out to dry when they don't have it. So, in the pitching department, we're going to have to find a way to get our starters sharp again. Would adding a deeper bullpen help? Will Hermanson make it off the DL to contribute? Is there a bullpen arm out there who can reprise Cliff Politte's role from last year? (David Riske isn't it. He's helped us, but I wouldn't trust him that much with the game on the line.) I don't know what we're going to get from our pitching staff out of the break. I'm just glad we won today's game going into the break, and now have 4 days off to get ready for the second half. Good post. I think you're right. We're not trading any of our starters. It's just not gonna happen. We're gonna have to roll with them, atleast through this year. I still see Kenny going out and trading for a right-handed reliever. There's nothing Politte or Hermanson can do from now until the 31st to make me feel confident in them. Knowing Kenny, even if Politte and/or Hermanson pitched well over that stretch, he would still want some insurance in case one or both of them either started pitching like s*** or got hurt again. I believe Kenny when he says he's not shopping for a CF. We're gonna roll with Brian Anderson. Maybe you'll see Ross Gload moved. That's about it. So, basically, yeah, the team we have now is the team we're gonna hopefully win another title with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithFranklin Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 Listening to the Score this morning and an analyst was on talking mostly about the Cubs. Finally the Sox starters were brought up and he mentioned something that I have thought about. They compare Sox starters ERA of last year with this years. All of them higher but Contreras. They also talked about how everything was laid on the shoulders of the Sox starters this year. Sox starters dont have to shut teams down for the Sox to win this year. The starters dont need to press like they did last year. Look at the 2nd half last year the starters couldnt keep it up all season long and it showed in the 2nd half. The Sox went 42 and 34 the second half last year. Part of that was lack of pressure, part of it was the starters working so hard the 1st half. This year they can pace themselves some more and let the hitters win more games. When the Sox get a big lead they can simply pitch to get the game over rather than pitch to shut a team down. I expect a much better 2nd half in 2006 compared to 2005 and expect the starters will pace themselves for a great September and October. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 QUOTE(greg775 @ Jul 10, 2006 -> 12:38 AM) Relax our rotation is awesome. Just because you keep saying that, doesn't make it true. They're proving day in and day out that they are not awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VAfan Posted July 16, 2006 Author Share Posted July 16, 2006 I was on vacation for a few days, but it was long enough to see the Sox' pitching get pounded again. Yesterday, Contreras pitched well enough to win, but the bullpen completely let him down. Today, not only did Mark Buehrle get rocked again, thanks in part to some shaky defense behind him, but Cliff Politte signed his walking papers. How many seasons do you think Buerhle has had games where he have given up 7, 8, and 11 runs? The White Sox will be in trouble if we don't pitch better. It already appears like we are playing for the wild card slot, as clearly we have blinked before the Tigers have. Sure, there is more than enough time to catch the Tigers. And the Twins appear to have cooled enough to lessen the pressure on us. But we can't mail it in and expect to be in the postseason in the American League. The Yanks aren't just going to roll over and fold. Like my post from just before the break, I don't have any answers. I'm glad we've cut bait with Cliff Politte. But I don't think Sean Tracey is going to be lights out for us, and I'm a little surprised it wasn't Montero who was recalled. Still, the starters are going to have to suck it up and pitch better. Or it is going to be a dogfight to the last game of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLAK Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 QUOTE(VAfan @ Jul 15, 2006 -> 07:52 PM) How many seasons do you think Buerhle has had games where he have given up 7, 8, and 11 runs? Every season he has been a starter. Yesterday was the 22nd time in his career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ginger Kid Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 QUOTE(TLAK @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 09:51 AM) Every season he has been a starter. Yesterday was the 22nd time in his career. awesome! nice work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baines3 Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 If the starting pitching don't shape up, we may be on the outside looking in during playoff time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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