Joe Lieberman will run in the general.

[WCSox]

You just said that's exactly what it was.

 

Liar, liar, pants on fire. Misquoting posts isn't going to help you win arguments.

[Rex Kickass]

Or perhaps his own party is throwing him under the bus because he refuses to join the anti-Iraq War crowd.

 

I'm not going to nitpick here, but that was your entire post. Show me what I missed.

[WCSox]

I'm not going to nitpick here, but that was your entire post. Show me what I missed.

 

The fact that I said that "his own party is throwing him under the bus" doesn't mean that other factors aren't involved in his poll numbers. I thought that was obvious, but apparently not.

[Rex Kickass]

What I don't get is that people outside of this race's immediate vicinity see this as two things "Iraq War Referendum" or "Left Wing (Streisand, Soros, bloggers) taking over the party there." This race is way more complicated than that.

 

Just like the 2004 election was more than Swiftboating and Gay Marriage. Every tough fight has a lot of variables in it. And Lieberman has shown himself to be not adept at realizing and adapting to that. That's all I've been trying to say.

[Balta1701]

What I don't get is that people outside of this race's immediate vicinity see this as two things "Iraq War Referendum" or "Left Wing (Streisand, Soros, bloggers) taking over the party there." This race is way more complicated than that.

 

Just like the 2004 election was more than Swiftboating and Gay Marriage. Every tough fight has a lot of variables in it. And Lieberman has shown himself to be not adept at realizing and adapting to that. That's all I've been trying to say.

It's easier to present the liberals as either crazy or america-haters if that's all it's about. Forget the bashing of the party constantly on Fox, forget the Schaivo stuff, forget his positions on women's rights, forget the contempt he's shown for his own state, forget his part in helping the Repubs pass Alito and Roberts, forget his part in passing dozens of bills benefiting whoever's giving him money, none of those would fit into the "Crazy liberals" narrative.

[Balta1701]

Also, Ned Lamont will be on the Colbert Report tonight.

[Rex Kickass]

It's easier to present the liberals as either crazy or america-haters if that's all it's about. Forget the bashing of the party constantly on Fox, forget the Schaivo stuff, forget his positions on women's rights, forget the contempt he's shown for his own state, forget his part in helping the Repubs pass Alito and Roberts, forget his part in passing dozens of bills benefiting whoever's giving him money, none of those would fit into the "Crazy liberals" narrative.

 

When you couple that with the idea that Lieberman said he'll run with or without the nomination of his party, why would Democrats want to give it to him in the first place? If I was a Connecticut Democrat, that in and of itself would put me on Team Lamont.

[YASNY]

When you couple that with the idea that Lieberman said he'll run with or without the nomination of his party, why would Democrats want to give it to him in the first place? If I was a Connecticut Democrat, that in and of itself would put me on Team Lamont.

 

I'm guessing that is because you more concerned about losing the senate seat for the party. If you wanted Leiberman to continue being your senator, would your opinion be the same?

[Rex Kickass]

I guess it would depend on why I supported Lieberman in the first place. If it's because I'm a "Democrat" and so is he, if he threatens to bolt the party if he loses the nomination - he really ought not to expect me to support him if he doesn't want to support me.

[Shamrock4Life]

didn't read the whole thread but my general thought is..

 

if you are voting on a candidate just because they are from part X then you shouldn't have the right to vote.

 

ok thats a little harsh, but you shouldn't be voting in that particular race.

[EvilMonkey]

There was this lovely post this morning of HuffPo about Lieberman from a Lamont supporter. It originally contained a lovely picture of Joe in blackface, which has since been removed. A shining example of the civility of some of Ned's most vocal supporters.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jane-hamsher...nt_b_26316.html

 

And this is the picture that was removed.

 

[samclemens]

There was this lovely post this morning of HuffPo about Lieberman from a Lamont supporter. It originally contained a lovely picture of Joe in blackface, which has since been removed. A shining example of the civility of some of Ned's most vocal supporters.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jane-hamsher...nt_b_26316.html

 

And this is the picture that was removed.

 

that picture is despicable.

 

hey, if lieberman runs independant, that alone could seal democrats fate. like a ross perot type thing. does anyone see that happening?

[Balta1701]

that picture is despicable.

 

hey, if lieberman runs independant, that alone could seal democrats fate. like a ross perot type thing. does anyone see that happening?

Somehow, I doubt that 1 post at a random blog is going to "seal the Democrats' fate". As always, if you want to , you can find an ungodly amount of stupid bile fired out about anything if you go to the right spot. Sort of disappointing that it showed up at Huffpo, but there's a reason I barely ever visit that site.

[Damen]

Ohhhhhh, but we must have an alternative, and the Dems have to go to an extreme to be different then the Republicans. Somewhere, somehow, someone needs to take a middle ground. If they did, and it wasn't Hillary just doing what polls tell her to do (for example), that candidate would win 65% of the vote right now.

 

I find this kind of funny, and typical of the media narrative today. On the one hand, you say "someone needs to take a middle ground." But then, the person who is actively trying to take the middle ground, Hillary Clinton, is "just doing what polls tell her to do".

[Rex Kickass]

Exactly, people who follow the polls will get 65% of the vote, as long as those people aren't Hillary Clinton.

[samclemens]

Somehow, I doubt that 1 post at a random blog is going to "seal the Democrats' fate". As always, if you want to , you can find an ungodly amount of stupid bile fired out about anything if you go to the right spot. Sort of disappointing that it showed up at Huffpo, but there's a reason I barely ever visit that site.

 

i wasnt saying that post would seal democrats fate- i was saying lieberman running as an indy might. im just wondering what people think.

[Balta1701]

i wasnt saying that post would seal democrats fate- i was saying lieberman running as an indy might. im just wondering what people think.

If there was an actual decent challenger in Connecticut, I might agree. But the Republican running in that race is quite literally a laughingstock already. It's come out that he's a gambling addict, he's been booted from casinos for card counting, he gambles under an assumed name, and he's been sued repeatedly by casinos in that area. The guy's polling somewhere around 20%.

 

There's also been a general feeling/rumor going around for a while that Lieberman might not stay in the race as an Independent too long if he does lose next week. He'd be expected to lose the support of both Clintons, among many other members of the party who said they'd support Joe in the Primary but would support whoever won that primary. He'd probably be facing more pressure to drop out than Katherine Harris currently is.

 

If he does run as an Indep, I think it'll probably take a pretty big foul-up on the part of Lamont for Lieberman to win. Especially given that there's 3 more months of the Iraq war before the election.

Edited August 3, 2006 by Balta1701

[Rex Kickass]

If the latest Q-poll isn't far off the actual mark, theres no way a Lieberman campaign stands a chance after a 13 point loss in the primary.

[southsider2k5]

Lamont pounds Joe on WMT PAC donation of $1000, while controling over $30k worth of stock.

[Rex Kickass]

Lieberman is running a sort of Anti-Walmart theme in his campaign to be fair.

[Balta1701]

Lieberman is running a sort of Anti-Walmart theme in his campaign to be fair.

Thus once again proving how idiotic our campaign finance system is. Running an anti-Walmart campaign, yet getting donations from Walmart and owning Walmart stock? Yeah, that makes perfect sense to me. I'm sure Walmart actually wants the greater restrictions on their company, and that's why they're giving money to him.

Edited August 4, 2006 by Balta1701

[Rex Kickass]

Lieberman has scrapped his GOTV program for the primary - apparently more and more convinced of a primary loss.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...6080300597.html

[Balta1701]

Lieberman has scrapped his GOTV program for the primary - apparently more and more convinced of a primary loss.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...6080300597.html

Makes me look like I was wrong in what i suggested the rumors were a little while ago...he's putting more money into TV ads to try to rebuild his image before the General.

 

You know, even if he wins the general, it'll be nice for Fox to not be able to have him on criticising the position of his own party every week, and it'll be nice to not have him be the one holdout who prevents the party from coming up with a more unified position on Iraq.

[Rex Kickass]

The problem is that a Primary loss is going to hurt him more in an independent bid. He WILL lose labor. He WILL lose CT party manpower. If he can't get enough paid volunteers to mount a GOTV operation now, what makes you think he'll be able to do it then?

[Balta1701]

The problem is that a Primary loss is going to hurt him more in an independent bid. He WILL lose labor. He WILL lose CT party manpower. If he can't get enough paid volunteers to mount a GOTV operation now, what makes you think he'll be able to do it then?

The question is not what makes me think he can do it then. The question is what makes HIM think he can do it then. I for one don't think he'll be able to, but now that he's realized he's in a fight, he has plenty of time to go back to those banks, big businesses, and so forth, and dredge up a bunch of donations before the election to still make it interesting, and he may well think that'll be enough.

 

The one thing that is coming through about Lieberman in all this is that to him, it is all about Lieberman. He thinks that he's done a great job for the state and the party and everyone who doesn't agree with him has made a huge mistake, and so he may very well decide to go for it anyway, despite all the support he'll lose when Lamont beats him.

 

One of his defining trends throughout this campaign, after his folks realized it was a campaign, is Lieberman being really bloody angry, from repeating "Who is Ned Lamont" over and over in their debate (and not thanking Lamont for showing up to the Debate, a normal courtesy, and one extended to Lieberman by Lamont) to the ridiculous godless killing machine ad that they came out with, Lieberman is just really pissed off about having to deal with this whole thing, and that alone may drive him to stay in, even after the battering he looks to take next Tuesday.

 

He could also salvage the election by taking Colbert's cocoa puffs.