Official "Squared Circle" Thread

[Buehrle>Wood]

They said on Vengance they would announced who "killed" Vince. Did they announce it?

Actually, that was what last night's Raw was supposed to be about(They even got a third hour to do the show from USA). Of course it was cancelled.

[Kyyle23]

They said on Vengance they would announced who "killed" Vince. Did they announce it?

 

No, they put it off

[Gregory Pratt]

Storyline's probably dead.

[T R U]

i dont know, maybe "Rampant Steroid use in Wrestling causes many to die young in the Industry"

 

spotlight on British Bulldog, Mr Perfect, Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit

 

just a hunch

 

The British Bulldog is the only one on there that you could make a legit claim steroids were the main reason that he died. Hennig died from a cocaine overdose, Eddie Guerrero had a history of drug abuse which led to his heart failure, and I don't see how steroids played a part in what happened with Benoit and his family..

 

They have a wellness program and have been taking care of things regarding steroids in wrestling..

[MHizzle85]

Storyline's probably dead.

It is. With Vince making the appearance at the beginning of the show last night not only would it be pointless to keep it going, but classless.

[Gregory Pratt]

I am sure the Wellness Program is a joke.

[fathom]

I am sure the Wellness Program is a joke.

 

Oh yeah...I find it funny that some people are pointing to it as reasons why steroids can't be blamed. I'm with you though, it's going to get annoying the next few months with the crap wrestling's going to get.

[Kyyle23]

The British Bulldog is the only one on there that you could make a legit claim steroids were the main reason that he died. Hennig died from a cocaine overdose, Eddie Guerrero had a history of drug abuse which led to his heart failure, and I don't see how steroids played a part in what happened with Benoit and his family..

 

They have a wellness program and have been taking care of things regarding steroids in wrestling..

 

Do steroids not count in the drug abuse category? Im not saying its 100 percent the cause of Benoits family's death, but Roid rage is being pointed out as a reason that he may have done what he did.

 

And the wellness program IS a joke. We all know it.

[Gregory Pratt]

Oh yeah...I find it funny that some people are pointing to it as reasons why steroids can't be blamed. I'm with you though, it's going to get annoying the next few months with the crap wrestling's going to get.

 

Yeah. I'm writing a small article about it. I'll post it later.

[Buehrle>Wood]

Oh yeah...I find it funny that some people are pointing to it as reasons why steroids can't be blamed. I'm with you though, it's going to get annoying the next few months with the crap wrestling's going to get.

Steroids can't be blamed because their not the answer here. Seriously, how many serials murders have ever been recorded as been attributed to steroids? I'm going to go out on a limb and say none. Yes, I'm familiar with "roid rage". But last I checked that caused short bursts of rage, not the planned murder of three people over a three day period. The man has been said to have been psychotic for weeks now. Steroids had nothing to do with this, whether he took them or not.

 

Just doing a little research here, according to Ryan Clark, WWE uses the same program from a 3rd party that MLB uses.

Edited June 26, 2007 by Buehrle>Wood

[Kyyle23]

Steroids can't be blamed because their not the answer here. Seriously, how many serials murders have ever been recorded as been attributed to steroids? I'm going to go out on a limb and say none. Yes, I'm familiar with "roid rage". But last I checked that caused short bursts of rage, not the planned murder of three people over a three day period. The man has been said to have been psychotic for weeks now. Steroids had nothing to do with this, whether he took them or not.

 

So you are saying this, and yet SI.com is saying this

 

Investigators found prescription anabolic steroids in the house and want to know whether the muscle man nicknamed "The Canadian Crippler" was unhinged by the bodybuilding drugs, which can cause paranoia, depression and explosive outbursts known as "roid rage."

 

Toxicology test results may not be available for weeks or even months, he said. As for whether steroids played a role in the crime, he said: "We don't know yet. That's one of the things we'll be looking at."

 

So if the steroids caused the depression/paranoia/explosive outburst, and the depression/paranoia/explosive outburst led to the murder of Benoits wife and son, and his following suicide, would it be fair to assume that steroids had something to do with this?

Edited June 26, 2007 by kyyle23

[Buehrle>Wood]

Investigators now believe he was giving his 7 year old HGH. Now there's a problem. What a psychotic freak.

Edited June 26, 2007 by Buehrle>Wood

[The Critic]

Investigators now believe he was giving his 7 year old HGH. Now there's a problem. What a psychotic freak.

Holy crap!

Talk about a hidden "other life".

He seemed, professionally at least, to see a level-headed, stable guy.

Couldn't have been further from the truth, as it turns out.

I thought I was too old to be shocked and disillusioned. I was wrong.

[Kyyle23]

Investigators now believe he was giving his 7 year old HGH. Now there's a problem. What a psychotic freak.

 

Hmm, sounds kind of like steroids have something to do with it a little bit

[Buehrle>Wood]

So you are saying this, and yet SI.com is saying this

So if the steroids caused the depression/paranoia/explosive outburst, and the depression/paranoia/explosive outburst led to the murder of Benoits wife and son, and his following suicide, would it be fair to assume that steroids had something to do with this?

From Wikipedia: "One of the most common misconceptions regarding the side effects of anabolic steroids is known as ‘roid rage’. There seems to be little or no evidence such a condition actually exists. The majority of recent studies done on "angry behavior" and anabolic steroid use show no psychological effect, implying that either "roid rage" does not exist or that anabolic steroids' effects on aggression are too small to be measured. Harvard researcher Harrison Pope, M.D. stated “With regard to the ‘roid rage’ issue, my first reaction as a scientist, obviously, is that ‘roid rage’ is a meaningless term that simply arose in popular parlance”. Many scientists and medical professionals have concluded anabolic steroids have no real effect on increased aggressive behavior."

 

This is probably why my quick Google searches on violent, steroid caused crimes returned nothing.

 

I honestly think this guy was just that f***ed up in the head. The more we learn about him, the more we know his mental problems extend well beyond the last week.

Edited June 26, 2007 by Buehrle>Wood

[Greg The Bull Luzinski]

Not taking sides hear, but Wikipedia is har from a credible source. Trying using a medical website.

 

Steriods

 

Web MD might be a little more credible, try this.

Edited June 26, 2007 by Greg The Bull Luzinski

[T R U]

Do steroids not count in the drug abuse category? Im not saying its 100 percent the cause of Benoits family's death, but Roid rage is being pointed out as a reason that he may have done what he did.

 

And the wellness program IS a joke. We all know it.

 

Yes, you can abuse steroids and that is the real only way to die from them.. however, when you look at those people, and yes they may have been linked to steroids, it was the abuse of hard drugs like cocaine etc. that was the reason that they actually died..

 

And you're right, the wellness program is a joke but at least it is something instead of them just saying do whatever you want to do, we don't care..

[Kyyle23]

Yes, you can abuse steroids and that is the real only way to die from them.. however, when you look at those people, and yes they may have been linked to steroids, it was the abuse of hard drugs like cocaine etc. that was the reason that they actually died..

 

And you're right, the wellness program is a joke but at least it is something instead of them just saying do whatever you want to do, we don't care..

 

No, they couldnt do that anymore. The Wellness program is going to be analyzed now, I bet

[Gregory Pratt]

Yes, you can abuse steroids and that is the real only way to die from them.. however, when you look at those people, and yes they may have been linked to steroids, it was the abuse of hard drugs like cocaine etc. that was the reason that they actually died..

 

And you're right, the wellness program is a joke but at least it is something instead of them just saying do whatever you want to do, we don't care..

 

I'm curious. Do you take steroids?

 

--

 

I can't believe that Benoit was giving his child HGH. This is sick.

[whitesoxfan101]

I don't think some regular old guy could take steroids and become nuts, but they undoubetely mess with you chemically and hormonally, so I think it's fair to throw out the chance senario that a seemingly "nice guy" like Benoit could be pushed over the edge in a domestic dispute by using them, and act in a crazy way he might otherwise not.

 

As for the steroids and deaths in wrestling, it will always be hard to prove because it seems like in all cases, due to the pressures of the schedule and making weight and physical toll, the wrestlers seem to abuse alcohol and/or drugs as well as steroids. The only real case you could take and use as an example is somebody that perhaps doesn't do drugs and only drinks modestly, but does steroids and dies, and I have not heard of a senario like that.

[T R U]

I'm curious. Do you take steroids?

 

--

 

I can't believe that Benoit was giving his child HGH. This is sick.

 

No, I have never actually injected steroids into my body with a needle like what these professionals would be doing, but I do know a lot about not only steroids but a lot of performance enhancing drugs and what not because I am really big into working out and physical fitness. I do have friends that take steroids, and not only do they not have any side effects like are listed from it, they don't have rage or depression either..

 

The problem is abusing steroids.. If you abuse them, then you do have the chance to die from them. Once you stop taking steroids, you pretty much lose everything you had gained from them. Thats why steroid abuse is widely regarded with professional wrestling because of the duration of a career and the size that they need to maintain over that career..

 

As for the steroids and deaths in wrestling, it will always be hard to prove because it seems like in all cases, due to the pressures of the schedule and making weight and physical toll, the wrestlers seem to abuse alcohol and/or drugs as well as steroids. The only real case you could take and use as an example is somebody that perhaps doesn't do drugs and only drinks modestly, but does steroids and dies, and I have not heard of a scenario like that.

 

Thats because like I said, the danger with steroids is abusing them. If taking steroids was as life threatening as the world tries to make it seem, it wouldn't be used at times for people recovering from injuries or rehabilitation. Grant it, I am not on expert on medical practices, but I am fairly certain that they do prescribe steroids to patients sometimes.

[Gregory Pratt]

No, I have never actually injected steroids into my body with a needle like what these professionals would be doing, but I do know a lot about not only steroids but a lot of performance enhancing drugs and what not because I am really big into working out and physical fitness. I do have friends that take steroids, and not only do they not have any side effects like are listed from it, they don't have rage or depression either..

 

The problem is abusing steroids.. If you abuse them, then you do have the chance to die from them. Once you stop taking steroids, you pretty much lose everything you had gained from them. Thats why steroid abuse is widely regarded with professional wrestling because of the duration of a career and the size that they need to maintain over that career..

 

Why don't you take steroids? I don't say that in as snarky a manner as it sounds. I'm just curious. Why don't you juice up and tell the world what it's like?

 

--

 

I wrote this. It's just my thoughts on the whole situation. It's not really about Benoit, but it is.

 

Wrestling With Tragedy

 

The late 1990s are considered to be a golden age in professional wrestling's history, due in equal part to the fact that viewers returned to the industry after they'd left in droves following Vince McMahon's steroid scandal. Reinvigorating the world of professional wrestling were the Monday Night Ratings Wars between World Championship Wrestling and the World Wrestling Federation; the third-party shenanigans of Paul Heyman's Extreme Championship Wrestling; the introduction of adult storylines; the infusion of hardcore wrestling; the arrival of Japanese and Mexican talent; and the rise of an anti-hero in Stone Cold Steve Austin and popular pretty boy The Rock, who were the first true superstars in wrestling since Hulk Hogan took over every child's living room in the 1980s. The 1990s, popular with the mainstream, were not so with the critics, who claimed that the brands were becoming too violent, too edgy for children, but they were often rebutted not by the wrestlers or promotors but by the fans, and the merchandise sales, and the ratings, which combined served as a powerful silencer.

 

Unfortunately, the critics found an equally powerful silencer in a young girl's abrupt silence and a villain they turned into an anti-hero in more dramatic, disturbing fashion than almost anything ever broadcast by the World Wrestling Federation.

 

Tate, if you don't remember, was a twelve year old, one hundred and sixty six pound boy whose mother was babysitting the six year old, sixty six pound Eunick when he killed her in a manner so brutal that the prosecutors at his trial cited doctors claims that the injuries were the equivelant of falling out of a third story building. Her skull was fractured, her brain swollen, her liver split in half. Her ribs were destroyed, as were countless other bones, and it was said that she screamed and suffered for hours, to which her babysitter's response had been, "Be quiet or I'll spank your butt!" (Tate's mother didn't even go look to see what was happening with Tiffany Eunick that she was in such pain. Tate's mother belonged in prison as much as Tate did.)

 

At his trial, Tate claimed that he'd merely been wrestling with her as a friend and it had all been an unfortunate accident, which was a ploy by the Defense to turn the media on the World Wrestling Federation and transform Lionel Tate into an innocent boy possessed by Vince McMahon. The media, all too happy for a story, took the opportunity and soon much of the country was wondering why a television program so violent would be allowed to continue, or have been started in the first place. Conservative activity L. Brent Bozell's Parents Television Council declared war on professional wrestling and the media took the over-the-top atmosphere of a wrestling show into the press box and attempted to lead it into the courtroom. The Courts, however, found Lionel Tate guilty of all charges and sentenced him to life without parole, which he appealed, and he found himself out on the streets in due time, where he wound up stealing a car, undoubtedly taught him by wrestling.

 

Professional wrestler and New York Times best-selling author Mick Foley wrote in greater detail about Bozell's antics, the media's unfair treatment of professional wrestling and the Tate incident, but this all leads to the terrible news out of Atlanta this weekend that Chris Benoit (famed as a technical wrestler without much flash) killed his wife, seven-year-old son and self. I, for one, was shocked by the story when it broke that there'd been a murder in the Benoit household as Benoit's always been known as a class act and nice guy, so it stunned me, and it saddened me because Benoit was a favorite of mine, then it shocked me and depressed me when I learned that it had been a double murder-suicide.

 

My thoughts at first turned to prayer, as I wished for the best for the Benoits and all those who knew them. I then wondered, Why did this happen? How could he do this? and so I turned on CNN at two o clock today, June 26th 2007, to hear what the policemen had to say about it. The lead-in to the Benoit Press Conference involved something about "A violent life of wrestling. A violent end," or something to that effect, and I felt numbed by the painful reminder of what had occurred until I realized that it was more than a reminder, or a summation. It was a crack. It was a crack about the violence in wrestling and an implication that it has something to do with Nancy and Daniel Benoit's terrible deaths.

 

I knew then that the media would Lionel Tate World Wrestling Entertainment using Chris Benoit's tragic end, and I feel sick knowing it now. In the coming weeks, we will hear about steroid abuse in wrestling; the violent nature of matches; the grueling schedule; the disturbing effect a Randy Orton match can have on a child. All of it is cause for some level of concern amongst parents, academics and the wrestlers themselves, but none of them caused Chris Benoit to kill his family. People don't become killers because of professional wrestling. Since the story broke, it's taken more and more twists, from the disgusting revelation that Chris Benoit may have been giving his child human growth hormone to the release of Nancy Sullivan's attempt to divorce Benoit for prior abuse to the details about the murder itself, but it should not be taken as an indictment of professional wrestling.

 

Vince McMahon and his company might deserve some blame for not noticing what had allegedly been a steady breakdown in Benoit's psyche for the last several weeks. World Wrestling Entertainment's steroid policies are a joke and they should be scrutinized and criticized. But let's not pretend that this case of extreme violence has to do with the "violent nature" of professional wrestling, because you wouldn't be close to the root of the problem, whatever it was, as the problem is in Benoit's head, not the industry's soul. The industry and its fans grieve as much as anyone. And rest assured, they are violent tears, not inspired by wrestling but by tragedy.

 

I, for one, can't understand what Chris Benoit did or why. I can't fathom what would drive a man to kill his family. I don't know the man or his situation, and I don't hate him for what he's done. I hope he and his family can find closure in another life, on the other side, if there is another life or other side. I'll leave it for God to sort out, because that's all I can do but feel this sickness in my stomach. I hope that his remaining children can be okay. I pray for Nancy's living family. I wish it hadn't happened. It did, and it's all terrible, for the children who enjoy wrestling to the adults who might as well be children to those who have never grown up and make no excuses for it. I hope this tragedy can end -- for us -- with the investigation into what happened, why and how, and what, if anything, the rest of us (wrestling fans and non alike) can learn from it for when someone we know is losing it.

 

I hope this situation isn't exploited by the media to go after their old, favorite whipping boy in professional wrestling, because that isn't appropriate to the situation, and the situation is too serious for scapegoats or to scrape up old wounds as the newest wound runs deep enough.

[whitesoxfan101]

Thats because like I said, the danger with steroids is abusing them.

 

Well just by the combination of the eye test and common sense, I'd say a large number of WWE performers are abusing anabolic steroids.

[MHizzle85]

That was very well done Greg. I think that sums up what most of us wrestling fans feel at the moment.

[T R U]

Well just by the combination of the eye test and common sense, I'd say a large number of WWE performers are abusing anabolic steroids.

 

Yep, thats why they are at danger from it.

 

Why don't you take steroids? I don't say that in as snarky a manner as it sounds. I'm just curious. Why don't you juice up and tell the world what it's like?

 

Because quite honestly I am scarred of sticking the needle in me. My friend sticks it right in his thigh, and he could barely walk for two days. There was a huge knot where it swelled. Plus I always think there will be an air bubble that gets in there.

 

However, WWE is concerned with the sensationalistic reporting and speculation being undertaken by some members of the media following the press conference held by the Fayette County Sheriff’s Department and the District Attorney. During the press conference, the investigating authorities made the following points, all of which run contrary to the media speculation that "roid rage" was a factor in the senseless murders and suicide:

 

1. The authorities stated that all drugs found in the house were believed to be legal prescriptions.

 

2. Steroids were not, and could not, be related to the cause of death (asphyxiation). Authorities had no factual basis to speculate as to Benoit’s state of mind, and rightly did not do so.

 

3. Toxicology tests have not even been completed, so there is no current evidence that Benoit even had steroids or any other substance in his body. In that regard, on the last test done on Benoit by WWE's independently administered drug testing program, done on April 10, 2007, Benoit tested negative.

 

4. The physical findings announced by authorities indicate deliberation, not rage. The wife's feet and hands were bound and she was asphyxiated, not beaten to death. By the account of the authorities, there were substantial periods of time between the death of the wife and the death of the son, again suggesting deliberate thought, not rage. The presence of a Bible by each is also not an act of rage.

 

5. WWE strongly suggests that it is entirely wrong for speculators to suggest that steroids had anything to do with these senseless acts, especially when the authorities plainly stated there is no evidence that Benoit had steroids in his body, pending the toxicological reports, and that they had no evidence at this time as to the motive for these acts.

 

From Wrestlezone.com

 

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