Jon Garland

[Gene Honda Civic]

His great outing tonight only lowered his ERA to 5.30. He's got quite a bit of work to do to get anywhere near his career averages.

He'd need to throw about 107 innings of 3.62 ERA ball to give him 215 of 4.5 ERA ball on the season.

 

Incidentally, Garland threw 101 innings of with a 3.65 ERA after the ASG last season.

[whitesoxin']

He'd need to throw about 107 innings of 3.62 ERA ball to give him 215 of 4.5 ERA ball on the season.

 

Incidentally, Garland threw 101 innings of with a 3.65 ERA after the ASG last season.

And that was the "bad" Jon Garland last year. How spoiled we were in the first half.

[hammerhead johnson]

Garland is still gonna lead the league in HRs allowed, correct?

 

Not that I usually go out of my way to bash him or anything, but that 8-3 record is a joke.

 

If he can't control his sinker, then he is utterly worthless because he has jack s*** to fall back on.

[Greg Hibbard]

A question for the ERA stat stranglers

 

Are 8-6 wins worth less than 2-0 wins in the World Series?

[GoodAsGould]

Right now I feel most confident when Buehrle, Contreras, and Garland are on the mound. Freddy Garcia I have no faith in and im starting to feel the same for Vazquez as well. Vazquez easily should be our best pitcher or 2nd best behind Contreras I have no clue why he doesnt succeed.

[Rowand44]

Right now I feel most confident when Buehrle, Contreras, and Garland are on the mound. Freddy Garcia I have no faith in and im starting to feel the same for Vazquez as well. Vazquez easily should be our best pitcher or 2nd best behind Contreras I have no clue why he doesnt succeed.

Mental. Midget.

[Kalapse]

A question for the ERA stat stranglers

 

Are 8-6 wins worth less than 2-0 wins in the World Series?

If you have a starter who goes out there and gives up 5-6 runs every start he can not be expected to win s*** for you in September or October when generally the games start to get lower scoring and you see a lot more 3-2, 2-0 games. an 8-3 record with a mid 5 ERA is fun during the regular season and all but that run support tends to diminish as you go deeper into the season.

 

Would you rather have a starter like Garland who's 8-3 w/ a 5.30 ERA/1.38 or a guy like Dan Haren who has a .500 record but a 3.40 ERA/1.11 WHIP going for you in a big game?

 

A pitcher's record is more indicative of his the run support he's receiving and the general quality of his team's offense than the quality of his pitching. Eventually that luck runs out and his 5 ER, 9 H performances are going to lead to losses in big games.

[GoodAsGould]

but thats not all true..... a lot of starters pitch differently depending on the game. If their team scores 1 run they wont give up any... if their team scores 10 they will give up 6-8. Im not saying this is the case for Garland but sometimes pitchers are just natural winners and others are just natural losers despite era.

 

A course in the case of Clemens last season.... it was just pathetic team offense.

[DBAHO]

A pitcher's record is more indicative of his the run support he's receiving and the general quality of his team's offense than the quality of his pitching. Eventually that luck runs out and his 5 ER, 9 H performances are going to lead to losses in big games.

Well we have been lucky Jon was getting good run support in the 1st couple of months when he wasn't performing to the standards we know he can.

 

And now as his last few performances have shown, he doesn't need 6 or 7 runs to help him pick up the win, although it doesn't hurt at all.

 

Let's hope he continues what he has produced lately, by keeping the ball in the park, not walking hitters, and getting those groundball outs.

[BobDylan]

but thats not all true..... a lot of starters pitch differently depending on the game. If their team scores 1 run they wont give up any... if their team scores 10 they will give up 6-8. Im not saying this is the case for Garland but sometimes pitchers are just natural winners and others are just natural losers despite era.

 

A course in the case of Clemens last season.... it was just pathetic team offense.

 

Hypothetically, the Sox are in the World Series right now. Do you want Jon Garland pitching in any of those games? If it's me, I go to Buehrle, Contreras and Garcia only.

 

Sure, Garland had a hell of a post-season last year, but he also had a hell of a regular season. There are such things as one year wonders. Remember Josh Beckett?

[DBAHO]

Hypothetically, the Sox are in the World Series right now. Do you want Jon Garland pitching in any of those games? If it's me, I go to Buehrle, Contreras and Garcia only.

 

Sure, Garland had a hell of a post-season last year, but he also had a hell of a regular season. There are such things as one year wonders. Remember Josh Beckett?

I wouldn't call Beckett a 1 year wonder;

 

2003 - 9-8, 3.04 ERA, 152/56 K/BB ratio.

2004 - 9-9, 3.79 ERA, 152/54 K/BB ratio.

2005 - 15-8, 3.38 ERA, 166/58 K/BB ratio.

[elrockinMT]

I like what I have seen from Jon that last few games. He is pitching inside adn challenging the hitters while trusting his stuff again. I also thought it is a confidence thing with Jon Garland. He is good and needs to believe it.

[illinilaw08]

Hypothetically, the Sox are in the World Series right now. Do you want Jon Garland pitching in any of those games? If it's me, I go to Buehrle, Contreras and Garcia only.

 

Sure, Garland had a hell of a post-season last year, but he also had a hell of a regular season. There are such things as one year wonders. Remember Josh Beckett?

 

Right now I agree with you, but this same argument was made last year about Contreras.

 

Also of note, 3 man rotations have struggled in the postseason in recent years, I really think the Sox are going to need Garland or Garcia come October so let's hope Garland continues this upward trend of throwing the ball well.

[Frankensteiner]

If he can get his changeup just a bit better (in terms of location) and we'll see the guy that was really good and one of our aces for most of last year.

 

Good point. He tends to leave that changeup up and over the plate, even in yesterday's good start. He can still be good without it, just maybe not dominating like he was last season.

[beautox]

Once Garland has a meh/terrible outing his next start, I expect that Jon bashing thread to be bumped by someone. The real question is... WHO?

*raises hand*, lol seriously though, hes a maso menos pitcher. I realize hes only 27 but the guy has pitched over 1000 innings in his career to date, he reminds me alot of vazquez and vice versa. When they're on they're on but they don't always have alot of mental fortitude(or so it appears), im glad Big Jon is turning it around again. I'm looking for a good/great second half from him, vazquez and garcia. Those 3 haven't been pitching up to their potential and yet we've got a fantastic record. I will always be grateful for what Jon along with Politte did in '05 but that doesn't blind me.

[Damen]

but thats not all true..... a lot of starters pitch differently depending on the game. If their team scores 1 run they wont give up any... if their team scores 10 they will give up 6-8. Im not saying this is the case for Garland but sometimes pitchers are just natural winners and others are just natural losers despite era.

 

A course in the case of Clemens last season.... it was just pathetic team offense.

 

Eh...over the course of a season, you're ERA, WHIP, and BAA tell you the kind of pitcher you are, not you're W/L record. I don't buy the crap about pitchers being natural winners. If you are a natural winner, you won't give up 6 ER just becuase your team spotted you 7.

[VAfan]

If you have a starter who goes out there and gives up 5-6 runs every start he can not be expected to win s*** for you in September or October when generally the games start to get lower scoring and you see a lot more 3-2, 2-0 games. an 8-3 record with a mid 5 ERA is fun during the regular season and all but that run support tends to diminish as you go deeper into the season.

 

Would you rather have a starter like Garland who's 8-3 w/ a 5.30 ERA/1.38 or a guy like Dan Haren who has a .500 record but a 3.40 ERA/1.11 WHIP going for you in a big game?

 

A pitcher's record is more indicative of his the run support he's receiving and the general quality of his team's offense than the quality of his pitching. Eventually that luck runs out and his 5 ER, 9 H performances are going to lead to losses in big games.

 

I liked the rested Jon Garland who was throwing inside at 94-95 mph in shutting down the Angels in a complete game victory. He made one mistake and it cost him 2 runs, but they were insignificant.

 

I also liked the Jon Garland who battled and gave the Sox 3 extra innings of scoreless ball after the Astros got to him for 4 runs (1 of them being a HR that wasn't really a HR) early in game 3 of the World Series.

 

Garland will never be a stud #1 or even #2 pitcher. But he's still a young horse who will give you 200+ innings year after year and who generally keeps you in the ballgame. And I think he's going to continue to get better. With our offense and defense, he could easily win 16-18 games/year and be 8-10 games over .500 with an ERA from the mid-high 3s to the low 4s.

 

Brandon McCarthy may eventually be better than Garland, but I would predict he wouldn't do any better than Jon his first couple seasons as a starter. How many teams have better starters in the #4 slot?

 

The last two nights saw the Sox pitch like they are capable of pitching. It would be fabulous if Javier Vazquez could make it 3 well-pitched games in a row. The Sox need to pitch well to remain the best team in baseball, and it has to start with well-pitched games from our starters.

[GoSox05]

he looked really good last night. His pitches were moving nicely. More aggresive and it seems like he was working a little quicker.

Edited July 6, 2006 by GoSox05

[Gene Honda Civic]

Factually, Garland has gotten the least run support of any of our starters.

[GoodAsGould]

Eh...over the course of a season, you're ERA, WHIP, and BAA tell you the kind of pitcher you are, not you're W/L record. I don't buy the crap about pitchers being natural winners. If you are a natural winner, you won't give up 6 ER just becuase your team spotted you 7.

 

Im not saying a W/L record is the most important stat.... but a lot of people just throw it out completely...... The only times it should be thrown out completely is when you get Roger Clemens like run support.

[southsider2k5]

Factually, Garland has gotten the least run support of any of our starters.

 

I would also be curious to see what his percentage of runners he left for a reliever have scored as well. It doesn't seem like it has been good.

[CanOfCorn]

When I said he was 8-3 and that's the most important thing leads to confidence.

 

When you aren't pitching well, but winning, I would think you would want to prop your team up. And unless you are Roger Clemens and have enough confidence (or ego) to last a lifetime, if your ERA, WHIP and BAA is fantastic, but you are at or below .500, that's gonna mess with your head.

 

We all know Jon is not the strongest in the brain department, but he's been on this team long enough that if he keeps pitching the way he did at the beginning of the season, win or lose, he's gonna get the beat down. the more the team wins for him, the more he's going to want to pitch his heart out for them.

 

JMHO.

[TitoMB345]

the more the team wins for him, the more he's going to want to pitch his heart out for them.

 

I agree.

 

Jon looked fabulous last night, and the start against the Cubs on Friday. I have not been the biggest supporter of Garland, really, ever. Sure, he started off great last year, but finished 10-10 with an ERA close to 4 in the second half. But, if he can pitch like he has these last two (and apparently two before that that I don't remember as clear) then he'll be a hell of a 4th pitcher.

 

On a side note, I fear Garcia may be toast. His 89 MPH fastball just won't cut it, no matter what team you are on. I don't know what happened, because he was a horse last year. I would put him 2nd behind Contreras for the second half and playoffs. I wish we could get that Freddy back.

[Gene Honda Civic]

I would also be curious to see what his percentage of runners he left for a reliever have scored as well. It doesn't seem like it has been good.

According to BP

 

JG has been saved .09 off his ERA thanks to above average bullpen work.

FG has been hurt by .07

JV has been hurt by .18

MB has been saved .12

JC has been hurt by.07

 

Which evens out to say our bullpen has been very average this season.

[Sox It To Em]

A question for the ERA stat stranglers

 

Are 8-6 wins worth less than 2-0 wins in the World Series?

 

No, but it's far more likely that you'll win the game surrendering zero runs than six. It's true that all wins are equal in the standings, but the argument you're attempting to make is more indicative to the overall ability of the team rather than the individual pitcher. Yes, we'd all like to have the 15-6 pitcher with a 4.75 ERA over a pitcher with a 10-12 record and a 3.50 ERA. But in choosing the former pitcher, we are showing favor to the clutch offense that provides him with such incredible run support rather than the individual pitcher himself.