indyman Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 Vaz for Young = Brolio for Brock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 Jose Contreras was horse s*** this time last year too... just sayin'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSox05 Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 Hes got such good stuff. SO its so frustrating to see him struggle. You can only hope that they can work with him. But i mean this has been this guys whole career. UP and down. I think he will have a nice streak in the second half though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 I love how everyone on this board is a serious budget analyst. We apparently have wasted all of our money on Vaz and have nothing left to fullfill "other needs." Apparently you all are plugged into Jerry's budget for this year. As far as if the team would be better off with BMAC, Young and Viz. How can you say that for sure. The team looks pretty good to me right now. Javy has won 9 games. BMAC has never started for a full season in the majors, who knows if he would have won that many games. You dont know that for sure, f*** he could have been hurt by now, and we could not have another insurance policy and be trading young for Jeff Weaver. This team is good, the pitching is good, the hitting is good and we are winning. Cant anyone be happy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LVSoxFan Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 The only reason I'm hesitant to jump on the "dump Javy" bandwagon is this is EXACTLY what I was saying at this time last year about another pitcher: Jose Contreras. Oops! I guess I have enough faith in KW and Ozzie that whatever they decide, they know what they're doing. If they dump him at the deadline, he needed to be dumped. If they stick with him, who knows? Maybe he's a second half guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawnhillegas Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 Sox fans are so weird. Our centerfielder is hitting .180 and yet I dont know a single fan out there that wants him benched (myself included). Javy is 9-4 and hes got at least 3 threads. I know that there is no feasible replacement for Anderson (no more Mack in CF) and that lots of people on this board want Bmac in instead of Vazquez....but still, Javy has looked mediocre but Brian Anderson might have the lowest batting average in the last 20 years for a starter at the all-star game. YOU MUST ALL HATE PUERTO RICANS!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jul 7, 2006 -> 09:48 AM) I love how everyone on this board is a serious budget analyst. We apparently have wasted all of our money on Vaz and have nothing left to fullfill "other needs." Apparently you all are plugged into Jerry's budget for this year. As far as if the team would be better off with BMAC, Young and Viz. How can you say that for sure. The team looks pretty good to me right now. Javy has won 9 games. BMAC has never started for a full season in the majors, who knows if he would have won that many games. You dont know that for sure, f*** he could have been hurt by now, and we could not have another insurance policy and be trading young for Jeff Weaver. This team is good, the pitching is good, the hitting is good and we are winning. Cant anyone be happy? You don't have to be a budget analyst to come up with the FACT that if Vazquez wasn't here, the money being used to pay him would have been spent on somebody else. Its beaten into our heads that every dollar that comes in is spent, and there's no reason to think otherwise. KW was rolling the dice with Vazquez. There is no question about his talent. He reminds me of a right handed Floyd Bannister. A guy with a lot of talent who could get on a roll and be dominating maybe for an entire year, maybe for half of one, but when its all said and done,will wind up with a pretty mediocre career, and have scouts and executives scratching their heads wondering why he wasn't better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 QUOTE(kapkomet @ Jul 7, 2006 -> 09:45 AM) Jose Contreras was horse s*** this time last year too... just sayin'. Why do people keep saying that? I don't rememer Jose's ERA being over 5 at any point last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Jul 7, 2006 -> 02:56 PM) Why do people keep saying that? I don't rememer Jose's ERA being over 5 at any point last year. Stats don't mean s***. People were calling for his ass because of the same damn reasons I see in this thread, stats excluded. Sox fans are very fickle about their players and always demand more, screw the 9 wins, he SUCKS, get rid of him!!!!!! Hell yes, he's been inconsistant (main point of thread). People were saying the same thing about JC this time last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Jul 8, 2006 -> 12:56 AM) Why do people keep saying that? I don't rememer Jose's ERA being over 5 at any point last year. Not but at this point last year after the Oakland game where he walked about 7 or 8 hitters, people on here were queing up to jump off a bridge to bash the guy, and DEMAND he be traded for A.J Burnett or Jason Schmidt. How things can change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 QUOTE(whitesoxin @ Jul 7, 2006 -> 12:05 AM) 9-4 is not a bad record. Just saying. Sox are playing great and our number five starter is 9-4. Look at it that way. Do you remember Danny Wright? How about Schoenweis? Josh Stewert? Who do you like as your NUMBER FIVE starter? There are a lot of pitchers that could go 9-4 with 133 runs of support in 17 starts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 QUOTE(indyman @ Jul 7, 2006 -> 09:43 AM) Vaz for Young = Brolio for Brock That's making quite a leap for a guy that's never played a game in the majors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jul 7, 2006 -> 10:13 AM) There are a lot of pitchers that could go 9-4 with 133 runs of support in 17 starts. This is true and he's avoided more losses because of the run support. That being said, he's only allowed more than 3 runs in one of his wins. So his wins for the most part have been well earned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Jul 7, 2006 -> 09:56 AM) Why do people keep saying that? I don't rememer Jose's ERA being over 5 at any point last year. Everyone was all over Contreras, I was I will admit it. I watched him get absolutely bombed against Arizona for an 8 spot. He was in between, throwing his forkball more than his fastball. He looked like he was taking a step backwards. With him and El Duque there were comments about the Cuban pitching crisis we had. Then poof, he turned it on. Does it happen with Javy, maybe maybe not. He has the stuff. Its just a few pitches that get him in trouble. Its not like they are just bombing the crap out of Javy. I would like to see him attack the zone more, and use his slider more to right handers with 2 strikes. I think he is trying to throw his two seamer more than he should because of trying to keep the ball in the park. I think that takes away from his game. Lets see what Coop does with him. I think its small adjustments that need to happen to make Javy into a winner for us. Edited July 7, 2006 by southsideirish71 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo's Drinker Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jul 7, 2006 -> 10:13 AM) There are a lot of pitchers that could go 9-4 with 133 runs of support in 17 starts. The only thing I know is the sox love hitting for Javy....keep running him out then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jul 7, 2006 -> 10:18 AM) Everyone was all over Contreras, I was I will admit it. I watched him get absolutely bombed against Arizona for an 8 spot. He was in between, throwing his forkball more than his fastball. He looked like he was taking a step backwards. Then poof, he turned it on. Does it happen with Javy, maybe maybe not. He has the stuff. Its just a few pitches that get him in trouble. Its not like they are just bombing the crap out of Javy. I would like to see him attack the zone more, and use his slider more to right handers with 2 strikes. I think he is trying to throw his two seamer more than he should because of trying to keep the ball in the park. I think that takes away from his game. Lets see what Coop does with him. I think its small adjustments that need to happen to make Javy into a winner for us. The other scary thing is at least for the last two seasons, Vazquez pitched significantly worse after the AS break than before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jul 7, 2006 -> 10:13 AM) There are a lot of pitchers that could go 9-4 with 133 runs of support in 17 starts. His run support actually has very little to do with his win total. A good chunk of those runs came in his good starts, like when we beat Cleveland 11-0, Seattle 13-3, and that 20-6 Cardinals game (Montero allowed 4). Including last night, only 2 of his 9 wins came in non-quality starts, and even last night it might have been a quality start if not for the error. He also got a no-decision in a game where he went 7 innings and only allowed 2 earned runs, so even that kind of balances out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigHurt Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 I wouldn't doubt that a record amount of crows lose their lives every year because of this site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vandy125 Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Jul 7, 2006 -> 10:25 AM) His run support actually has very little to do with his win total. A good chunk of those runs came in his good starts, like when we beat Cleveland 11-0, Seattle 13-3, and that 20-6 Cardinals game (Montero allowed 4). Including last night, only 2 of his 9 wins came in non-quality starts, and even last night it might have been a quality start if not for the error. He also got a no-decision in a game where he went 7 innings and only allowed 2 earned runs, so even that kind of balances out. I think that kind of goes along with what has been said here. With the big run support, he is able to focus and pitch up to his capabilities. Hopefully, he can start pitching well regardless of what kind of runs his teammates are putting on the board. How do his quality starts look when he does not have much run support? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 QUOTE(whitesoxin @ Jul 7, 2006 -> 01:05 AM) 9-4 is not a bad record. Just saying. Sox are playing great and our number five starter is 9-4. Look at it that way. Do you remember Danny Wright? How about Schoenweis? Josh Stewert? Who do you like as your NUMBER FIVE starter? I don't think those guys had the best offense in baseball behind them. They weren't traded for a young stud and another decent reliever as well. And they sure as hell weren't making 10.5 million dollars. Sorry, try again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 QUOTE(chitownsportsfan @ Jul 7, 2006 -> 11:57 AM) I don't think those guys had the best offense in baseball behind them. They weren't traded for a young stud and another decent reliever as well. And they sure as hell weren't making 10.5 million dollars. Sorry, try again. Yeah, and that was the price we paid to get a good starter as our #5. Apples and oranges could be compared your way as well if you like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 QUOTE(vandy125 @ Jul 7, 2006 -> 11:52 AM) I think that kind of goes along with what has been said here. With the big run support, he is able to focus and pitch up to his capabilities. Hopefully, he can start pitching well regardless of what kind of runs his teammates are putting on the board. How do his quality starts look when he does not have much run support? I don't really think that's what they're saying, I think they're implying that the only reason he has that many wins is because he gets great run support, not because he pitches well in those games. That's really not the case, because they've put up some runs in his losses as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jul 7, 2006 -> 01:06 PM) Yeah, and that was the price we paid to get a good starter as our #5. Apples and oranges could be compared your way as well if you like. Javier Vasquez is a good starter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 QUOTE(chitownsportsfan @ Jul 7, 2006 -> 12:17 PM) Javier Vasquez is a good starter? Uh yeah, I would say so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jul 7, 2006 -> 01:18 PM) Uh yeah, I would say so. This is where we differ then...ERA+'s of 92 and 99 the last too years, K/9 down again this year, he's trending down if you ask me. He could still pull it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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