aboz56 Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 QUOTE(Damen @ Jul 10, 2006 -> 06:46 PM) Hafner is running away in VORP this year. He leads baseball with a 55.8 VORP, with Pujols in a distant second at 46.4. Ramirez is in ninth at 38.4. Cleveland is in 4th place. Does that count for anything? Just wondering. I doubt all the MVP voters sit around and go damn, Hafner is great in VORP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damen Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 10, 2006 -> 05:46 PM) Well, if for the sake of this argument you keep things to strickly HR/RBI production which is what I was talking about right there. Manny has more HRs and RBIs on the road than at home, was nearly equal last year and did have more HR/RBI at Home in '04. But yeah, if you're looking at BA/OPS and such the numbers are higher at home but for whatever reason, so far this year Hafner has been much more productive at home than on the road. But if you want to look at who is the best ballplayer, you cannot ignore the tremendous advantage Manny has hitting in a hitter's friendly ballpark where Hafner plays in a park that strongly limits runs (PF factor of 94 in 2005). If you look at ballpark adjusted stats, Hafner is the best hitter in the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 10, 2006 -> 06:46 PM) Well, if for the sake of this argument you keep things to strickly HR/RBI production which is what I was talking about right there. Manny has more HRs and RBIs on the road than at home, was nearly equal last year and did have more HR/RBI at Home in '04. But yeah, if you're looking at BA/OPS and such the numbers are higher at home but for whatever reason, so far this year Hafner has been much more productive at home than on the road. Alright, I'll concede his HR/RBI numbers are better. I do however contend there are much better stats we have available to measure total offensive production. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damen Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 QUOTE(aboz56 @ Jul 10, 2006 -> 05:47 PM) Cleveland is in 4th place. Does that count for anything? Just wondering. I doubt all the MVP voters sit around and go damn, Hafner is great in VORP. I didn't base my picks on who MVP voters are actually going to pick, I picked who I thought should win these awards. Yeah Hafner has played on a disappointing Indians squad, but as I said previously, that is in no way connected to what he has done on the field. If I were to pick the league MVP, I'd give it to the best hitter in the league. After the first half, the honor belongs to Hafner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tealeafreaderii Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 Cy young is not going to a reliever not named Gagne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 QUOTE(Damen @ Jul 10, 2006 -> 06:52 PM) I didn't base my picks on who MVP voters are actually going to pick, I picked who I thought should win these awards. Yeah Hafner has played on a disappointing Indians squad, but as I said previously, that is in no way connected to what he has done on the field. If I were to pick the league MVP, I'd give it to the best hitter in the league. After the first half, the honor belongs to Hafner. Yea, Aboz you're right about the voters being rather uniformed (or perhaps willingly ignorant) of advanced stats when it comes to voting. I'll faint of someone actually cites VORP as a stat they look at in the MVP voting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandwhite Posted July 10, 2006 Author Share Posted July 10, 2006 QUOTE(tealeafreaderii @ Jul 10, 2006 -> 05:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Cy young is not going to a reliever not named Gagne Eric Gagne is gone for the season and has pitched in fifteen and a third innings over the last two seasons. What does that even mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHizzle85 Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 AL Most Valuable Player: David Ortiz AL Cy Young Award Winner: Francisco Liriano AL Rookie of the Year: Francisco Liriano AL Manager of the Year: Jim Leyland AL Comeback Player of the Year: Jim Thome AL Biggest Surprise: Detroit Tigers AL Biggest Disappointment: Cleveland Indians AL Game of the Year: Yesterday's Red Sox/White Sox game NL Most Valuable Player: Albert Pujols NL Cy Young Award Winner: Brandon Webb NL Rookie of the Year: Dan Uggla NL Manager of the Year: Joe Girardi NL Comeback Player of the Year: Nomar Garciaparra NL Biggest Surprise: Cincinatti Reds NL Biggest Disappointment: Atlanta Braves NL Game of the Year: White Sox @ Cubs, Pierzynski 3-run game winning home run. White Sox specific categories: Best Hitter: Jim Thome Best Pitcher: Jose Contreras Most Valuable Player: Jim Thome Biggest Surprise: A.J. Pierzynski Biggest Disappointment:Cliff Politte/Chris Widger Game of the Year:Frank's 1st game back aka the comeback game with Pablo's squeeze bunt Favorite Moment: White Sox @ Cubs, Pierzynski 3-run game winning home run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daa84 Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 QUOTE(MHizzle85 @ Jul 10, 2006 -> 06:13 PM) AL Most Valuable Player: David Ortiz AL Cy Young Award Winner: Francisco Liriano AL Rookie of the Year: Francisco Liriano AL Manager of the Year: Jim Leyland AL Comeback Player of the Year: Jim Thome AL Biggest Surprise: Detroit Tigers AL Biggest Disappointment: Cleveland Indians AL Game of the Year: Yesterday's Red Sox/White Sox game NL Most Valuable Player: Albert Pujols NL Cy Young Award Winner: Brandon Webb NL Rookie of the Year: Dan Uggla NL Manager of the Year: Joe Girardi NL Comeback Player of the Year: Nomar Garciaparra NL Biggest Surprise: Cincinatti Reds NL Biggest Disappointment: Atlanta Braves NL Game of the Year: White Sox @ Cubs, Pierzynski 3-run game winning home run. White Sox specific categories: Best Hitter: Jim Thome Best Pitcher: Jose Contreras Most Valuable Player: Jim Thome Biggest Surprise: A.J. Pierzynski Biggest Disappointment:Cliff Politte/Chris Widger Game of the Year:Frank's 1st game back aka the comeback game with Pablo's squeeze bunt Favorite Moment: White Sox @ Cubs, Pierzynski 3-run game winning home run. pretty much perfect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tealeafreaderii Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(redandwhite @ Jul 10, 2006 -> 06:05 PM) Eric Gagne is gone for the season and has pitched in fifteen and a third innings over the last two seasons. What does that even mean? It means a reliever isn't going to win the Cy Young award, unless he starts breaking records the way Gagne did. and I don't see Pap breaking any records. Edited July 11, 2006 by tealeafreaderii Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxpride77 Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Liriano is not winning the AL Cy Young. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 QUOTE(chitownsportsfan @ Jul 10, 2006 -> 05:41 PM) I think Fenway helps Manny out quite a bit. Manny was pretty good in Cleveland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 QUOTE(redandwhite @ Jul 10, 2006 -> 10:14 PM) If the season ended today, He'd win one of the two, if not both. He's been the best reliever in baseball, period. Liriano is 10-1 with the AL triple crown (ERA/WHIP/BAA). He's blowing Papelbon right out of the motherf***ing water. It ain't even close. That is why I said he is not even in the discussion, and anyone who thinks otherwise just doesn't know their baseball too well, quite frankly. QUOTE(soxpride77 @ Jul 11, 2006 -> 12:40 AM) Liriano is not winning the AL Cy Young. Okay, then who will? Johan Santana? It's a two man race. I can't see where Halladay enters the discussion, either. If you really examine the numbers (BAA, WHIP, Strikeouts, etc), he can't even begin to f*** with Liriano or Santana. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 AL Most Valuable Player: Jim Thome AL Cy Young Award Winner: Francisco Liriano AL Rookie of the Year: Francisco Liriano AL Manager of the Year: Jim Leyland AL Comeback Player of the Year: Jim Thome AL Biggest Surprise: Detroit Tigers AL Biggest Disappointment: Cleveland Indians AL Game of the Year: NL Most Valuable Player: Albert Pujols NL Cy Young Award Winner: Brandon Webb NL Rookie of the Year: Dan Uggla NL Manager of the Year: Joe Girardi NL Comeback Player of the Year: Nomar Garciaparra NL Biggest Surprise: Florida Marlins NL Biggest Disappointment: Atlanta Braves NL Game of the Year: White Sox specific categories: Best Hitter: Jim Thome Best Pitcher: Bobby Jenks Most Valuable Player: Jim Thome Biggest Surprise: Jermaine Dye Biggest Disappointment: Cliff Politte Game of the Year: 19 inning marathon Favorite Moment: Opening day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 QUOTE(hammerhead johnson @ Jul 10, 2006 -> 08:02 PM) Liriano is 10-1 with the AL triple crown (ERA/WHIP/BAA). He's blowing Papelbon right out of the motherf***ing water. It ain't even close. That is why I said he is not even in the discussion, and anyone who thinks otherwise just doesn't know their baseball too well, quite frankly. Okay, then who will? Johan Santana? It's a two man race. I can't see where Halladay enters the discussion, either. If you really examine the numbers (BAA, WHIP, Strikeouts, etc), he can't even begin to f*** with Liriano or Santana. I have some serious man love for Doc Halladay and his Super Sinker of Doom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandwhite Posted July 11, 2006 Author Share Posted July 11, 2006 QUOTE(hammerhead johnson @ Jul 10, 2006 -> 08:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Liriano is 10-1 with the AL triple crown (ERA/WHIP/BAA). He's blowing Papelbon right out of the motherf***ing water. It ain't even close. That is why I said he is not even in the discussion, and anyone who thinks otherwise just doesn't know their baseball too well, quite frankly. Okay, then who will? Johan Santana? It's a two man race. I can't see where Halladay enters the discussion, either. If you really examine the numbers (BAA, WHIP, Strikeouts, etc), he can't even begin to f*** with Liriano or Santana. Anyone who knew there baseball would know that Papelbon, Ryan, Jenks or any reliever for that matter don't qualify for this "triple crown" you speak of. Statistics: WHIP/BAA/ERA Papelbon: .72/.155 /.59 Liriano: .97/.201/1.83 So I don't have a clue as to what you are talking about and I don't think you do either. Perhaps you're of the opinion that relievers cannot win the Cy Young, but you've yet to say that. QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 10, 2006 -> 09:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I have some serious man love for Doc Halladay and his Super Sinker of Doom Who doesn't have a man crush on Halladay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 QUOTE(Damen @ Jul 10, 2006 -> 10:28 PM) Sorry...I meant the AL. I forget the NL is still in the major leagues sometimes. amen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 10, 2006 -> 05:22 PM) BJ Ryan is right there with him and has 2 less blown saves, why don't you include him in this? Johan Santana, Francisco Liriano and Roy Halladay are the 3 names right now that I'd put up there for midseason Cy Young. but, but, but, ESPN doesnt talk about them every 5 seconds, how could they be as good as Papelboner??? How, please god HOW!!!!!!!!! QUOTE(redandwhite @ Jul 10, 2006 -> 09:59 PM) Statistics: WHIP/BAA/ERA Papelbon: .72/.155 /.59 BLSV 2 Ryan: .70/.148/ .84 BLSV 1 Fixed for accuracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Just to set the record straight here, Papelbon does in fact have 3 blown saves, not 2. TEX, PHI and CHW all blown saves. I'm not sure where this 2 BLSV thing is comming from. It is true though that BJ Ryan only has 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandwhite Posted July 11, 2006 Author Share Posted July 11, 2006 What wasn't accurate about the statistics that I listed? Papelbon has been better than Ryan this year. Regardless, both should be considered for the award. Again, I'm not quite sure what you're talking about. QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 10, 2006 -> 10:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Just to set the record straight here, Papelbon does in fact have 3 blown saves, not 2. TEX, PHI and CHW all blown saves. I'm not sure where this 2 BLSV thing is comming from. It is true though that BJ Ryan only has 1. Correct. So if anyone posted faulty statistics, it was Rock, not me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 G IP SV SVO H R ER HR HBP BB SO SLG OBA Papelbon: 40 46 26 29 25 3 3 2 1 8 47 .224 .200 Ryan: 39 42.2 24 25 21 4 4 0 0 9 54 .162 .197 I'd say it's just about a toss-up as to who the better pitcher has been overall but when it comes to doing what a closer is expected to do (close games) BJ Ryan takes the cake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 10, 2006 -> 11:06 PM) G IP SV SVO H R ER HR HBP BB SO SLG OBA Papelbon: 40 46 26 29 25 3 3 2 1 8 47 .224 .200 Ryan: 39 42.2 24 25 21 4 4 0 0 9 54 .162 .197 I'd say it's just about a toss-up as to who the better pitcher has been overall but when it comes to doing what a closer is expected to do (close games) BJ Ryan takes the cake. Agreed with everything you said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonderman38 Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 AL Most Valuable Player: David Ortiz AL Cy Young Award Winner: Johan Santana AL Rookie of the Year: Fransisco Liriano AL Manager of the Year: Jim Leyland AL Comeback Player of the Year: Jim Thome AL Biggest Surprise: Detroit Tigers AL Biggest Disappointment: Cleveland Indians AL Game of the Year: 19 inning games between White and Red Sox NL Most Valuable Player: Albert Pujols NL Cy Young Award Winner: Brandon Webb NL Rookie of the Year: Dan Uggla NL Manager of the Year: Joe Girardi NL Comeback Player of the Year: Nomar Garciaparra NL Biggest Surprise: Colorado Rockies NL Biggest Disappointment: Atlanta Braves NL Game of the Year: 18 inning game between Pirates and Astros White Sox specific categories: (I'm a Tigers fan so I probably will be off base, but I'll try.) Best Hitter: Jim Thome Best Pitcher: Jose Contreras Most Valuable Player: Jim Thome Biggest Surprise: Jermaine Dye Biggest Disappointment: Some Reliver, Politte I think his name is? Game of the Year: 19 inning Favorite Moment: AJ getting punched in the face (sorry) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHizzle85 Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 QUOTE(Bonderman38 @ Jul 10, 2006 -> 11:12 PM) Favorite Moment: AJ getting punched in the face (sorry) :finger feel free to go back to where you came from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 (edited) AL Most Valuable Player: David Ortiz AL Cy Young Award Winner: Jon Papelbon AL Rookie of the Year: Jon Papelbon AL Manager of the Year: Terry Francona AL Comeback Player of the Year: Mike Lowell tied with Gabe Kapler AL Biggest Surprise: Red Sox AL Biggest Disappointment: Red Sox AL Game of the Year: Any Red Sox/Yankees game shown on ESPN NL Most Valuable Player: Nomar Garciaparra NL Cy Young Award Winner: Pedro Martinez, Bronson Arroyo NL Rookie of the Year: Hanley Ramirez NL Manager of the Year: Grady Little NL Comeback Player of the Year: Nomar Garciaparra NL Biggest Surprise: Dodgers NL Biggest Disappointment: Red Sox NL Game of the Year: Red Sox sweeping the Mets with Coco Crisp making the greatest catch in the history of the game Sox specific categories: Best Hitter: Manny Best Pitcher: Papelbon Most Valuable Player: Papi Biggest Surprise: Alex Gonzalez Biggest Disappointment: Seanez/Taverez Game of the Year: Red Sox @ Yankees or Yankees @ Red Sox Favorite Moment: Mirabelli getting police escort to catch Wakefield. SO AWESOME!!!!! Edited July 11, 2006 by santo=dorf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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