Jump to content

Bush's 1st Veto


jasonxctf

Recommended Posts

QUOTE(YASNY @ Jul 13, 2006 -> 03:34 AM)
When you threw "God's will" into the equation, you made it analogous. I'm not arguing the rights or wrongs of the fertilized ova.

 

But the sudden lack of concern for the fate of the fertilized ova (i.e., when it is convenient for them) is at the heart of the hypocrisy, and the only reason I take issue.

 

If a couple spends every day of their adult lives railing against the evils of killing human embryos (claiming such an act is in defiance of God's Will) and then one day they elect for a medical procedure that in fact kills human embryos as a matter of course, that is hypocritical. It is the very definition of hypocrisy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 64
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jul 10, 2006 -> 09:45 PM)
My view is this. I am an organ donor, just like my wife is. Once you are dead, what they do with the organs doesnt really matter. If it can help someone, it would be the right thing to help that person. The same goes for stem cell research. I am not for abortion, but people are already aborting fetus's and the bodies are cast away, not buried as medical waste. I am not against using them for stem cell research and for a possible supply of stem cells later on. Some of my conservative legislators have a misguided view that this will start a run on abortions. That cause and effect is a weak link at best. As a diabetic the cure for my disease and a lot of other diseases probably lies within stem cell research. I hope for a cure, and we have seen some strides with Iclet cell replacement. I hope for the cure not just for myself, but for my son and future children. In my family the gene for diabetes is very very dominant. My grandfather, my mother, all 3 of her siblings, and at least 5 of my cousins all have diabetes. My mother watched her father die of complications when she was 10, I saw her pass away from complications a few years ago at 58. That is a strong link, and something that I am sad to say probably was passed on to my son. If this can help diabetics, and all sorts of other diseases then I am for it. Dying too soon when we have the technology to help fix this or in the future fix it, is stupid.

 

Just wanted to through in my quick viewpoint on that. I do not think that it will start a run on abortions, but that it would strengthen the case for allowing abortions to continue. It could be said, "Well, we are already using aborted fetus's for stem cell research. We cannot regulate abortion because we would then lose that ability."

 

And Jim, there are many Christians who are actually consistent with what they say about IVF, abortion, and the death penalty if you want to bring that in as well. It seems like you are painting Christians who are against abortion with the same broad stroke and saying that they are all hypocrites. I know that you are not actually saying that, but it is coming across that way IMHO.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

QUOTE(vandy125 @ Jul 13, 2006 -> 02:30 PM)
And Jim, there are many Christians who are actually consistent with what they say about IVF, abortion, and the death penalty if you want to bring that in as well. It seems like you are painting Christians who are against abortion with the same broad stroke and saying that they are all hypocrites. I know that you are not actually saying that, but it is coming across that way IMHO.

 

The point is taken (as is that of YAS and others), and it's not my intent to paint all Christians with the same brush. That is why I made a point of regerring to the couples I take issue with "nominal Christians" -- that is, Christians in name only but not deed, based on their inability to actually walk it like they talk it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 11, 2006 -> 08:50 PM)
Man, Flaxx...it seems to me like you're really stretching to find hypocrisy there. Yeah, I'm sure there are fundamentalist christians who are using these facilities and at the same time opposing the research, but I don't see much use in pointing it out unless you can prove to me that a large majority are. Seems like you're straining to find a group of people to go after specifically.

 

I think it makes the point well enough to say that opposition to stem cell research for religious reasons not teamed with a desire to outlaw in vitro fertilization clinics that use current methods is quite hypocritical, whether or not people are making use of those services.

 

i think its a pretty damn good point flaxx made.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 18, 2006 -> 04:22 PM)
The Senate Passed the bill, 63-37. Not enough to override a veto.

 

Finally! A Wedge issue! Whoopee!

It is PROBABLY not enough. Thing is, some people will vote against a bill but still vote to override the veto, if their party bets big on it. Its happened before. They'd need 3 more.

 

But more than likely, that wouldn't happen for 3+ senators, so Bush will likely use his first veto on this one, where it is highly likely to succeed (and is a pet issue for him personally). Wedge issue indeed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Jul 18, 2006 -> 02:30 PM)
It is PROBABLY not enough. Thing is, some people will vote against a bill but still vote to override the veto, if their party bets big on it. Its happened before. They'd need 3 more.

 

But more than likely, that wouldn't happen for 3+ senators, so Bush will likely use his first veto on this one, where it is highly likely to succeed (and is a pet issue for him personally). Wedge issue indeed.

The House vote was 238 to 194. If I did the math right, something like 290 votes are needed to override the veto in that house. So it's almost certainly not going to be overridden with this Congress.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 18, 2006 -> 04:48 PM)
The House vote was 238 to 194. If I did the math right, something like 290 votes are needed to override the veto in that house. So it's almost certainly not going to be overridden with this Congress.

If the house vote was that short of override, then yeah, I'd agree. I figured it would be about as close as the Senate vote (relatively), but apparently not. I wasn't aware of how the house voted.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Jul 18, 2006 -> 04:58 PM)
Care to translate?

 

It's an FDR joke.

 

Roosevelt was so despised by the richest of the rich (and make no mistake, they were his biggest critics/enemies) that the snoots would call him "That man!" instead of say his name because they despised him so.

Edited by Gregory Pratt
Link to comment
Share on other sites

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jul 18, 2006 -> 05:28 PM)
It's an FDR joke.

 

Roosevelt was so despised by the richest of the rich (and make no mistake, they were his biggest critics/enemies) that the snoots would call him "That man!" instead of say his name because they despised him so.

Heh. Sounds a lot like the Harry Potter thing. "He who shall not be named" or whatever they say.

 

I actually saw a bumper sticker once that said "Republicans for Voldemort", done nicely in the correct colors and layout of the Bush/Cheney stickers of the time. Took me a second to recognize the difference.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 18, 2006 -> 04:22 PM)
The Senate Passed the bill, 63-37. Not enough to override a veto.

 

Finally! A Wedge issue! Whoopee!

 

 

this isn't an issue the Republicans would want to use as a "wedge". far too many moderates and republican voters support stem cell research.

Edited by mr_genius
Link to comment
Share on other sites

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Jul 18, 2006 -> 05:41 PM)
Heh. Sounds a lot like the Harry Potter thing. "He who shall not be named" or whatever they say.

 

I actually saw a bumper sticker once that said "Republicans for Voldemort", done nicely in the correct colors and layout of the Bush/Cheney stickers of the time. Took me a second to recognize the difference.

 

I saw that sticker, too. It cracked me up.

 

I think we need a "George Bush is no Grover Cleveland: For Shame" bumper sticker.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

QUOTE(mr_genius @ Jul 18, 2006 -> 03:55 PM)
this isn't an issue the Republicans would want to use as a "wedge". far too many moderates and republican voters support stem cell research.

I sort of meant it was a wedge issue for our side for once. The Republicans have plenty of them...the hating of the gays, all the other religious stuff, etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 18, 2006 -> 05:32 PM)
Would an unrequested back massage help placate you?

 

Oh, my God, no no no no no.

I thought you were making some odd, quirky joke that I didn't quite get. Now that I know what you're referring.... :puke

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just wanted to post the vote from the Senate here. If you have a senator that voted against this, and you disagree with him/her, please send an e-mail, call, or let him/her know about your displeasure.

 

Alphabetical by Senator Name

Akaka (D-HI), Yea

Alexander (R-TN), Yea

Allard (R-CO), Nay

Allen (R-VA), Nay

Baucus (D-MT), Yea

Bayh (D-IN), Yea

Bennett (R-UT), Yea

Biden (D-DE), Yea

Bingaman (D-NM), Yea

Bond (R-MO), Nay

Boxer (D-CA), Yea

Brownback (R-KS), Nay

Bunning (R-KY), Nay

Burns (R-MT), Nay

Burr (R-NC), Yea

Byrd (D-WV), Yea

Cantwell (D-WA), Yea

Carper (D-DE), Yea

Chafee (R-RI), Yea

Chambliss (R-GA), Nay

Clinton (D-NY), Yea

Coburn (R-OK), Nay

Cochran (R-MS), Yea

Coleman (R-MN), Nay

Collins (R-ME), Yea

Conrad (D-ND), Yea

Cornyn (R-TX), Nay

Craig (R-ID), Nay

Crapo (R-ID), Nay

Dayton (D-MN), Yea

DeMint (R-SC), Nay

DeWine (R-OH), Nay

Dodd (D-CT), Yea

Dole (R-NC), Nay

Domenici (R-NM), Nay

Dorgan (D-ND), Yea

Durbin (D-IL), Yea

Ensign (R-NV), Nay

Enzi (R-WY), Nay

Feingold (D-WI), Yea

Feinstein (D-CA), Yea

Frist (R-TN), Yea

Graham (R-SC), Nay

Grassley (R-IA), Nay

Gregg (R-NH), Yea

Hagel (R-NE), Nay

Harkin (D-IA), Yea

Hatch (R-UT), Yea

Hutchison (R-TX), Yea

Inhofe (R-OK), Nay

Inouye (D-HI), Yea

Isakson (R-GA), Nay

Jeffords (I-VT), Yea

Johnson (D-SD), Yea

Kennedy (D-MA), Yea

Kerry (D-MA), Yea

Kohl (D-WI), Yea

Kyl (R-AZ), Nay

Landrieu (D-LA), Yea

Lautenberg (D-NJ), Yea

Leahy (D-VT), Yea

Levin (D-MI), Yea

Lieberman (D-CT), Yea

Lincoln (D-AR), Yea

Lott (R-MS), Yea

Lugar (R-IN), Yea

Martinez (R-FL), Nay

McCain (R-AZ), Yea

McConnell (R-KY), Nay

Menendez (D-NJ), Yea

Mikulski (D-MD), Yea

Murkowski (R-AK), Yea

Murray (D-WA), Yea

Nelson (D-FL), Yea

Nelson (D-NE), Nay

Obama (D-IL), Yea

Pryor (D-AR), Yea

Reed (D-RI), Yea

Reid (D-NV), Yea

Roberts (R-KS), Nay

Rockefeller (D-WV), Yea

Salazar (D-CO), Yea

Santorum (R-PA), Nay

Sarbanes (D-MD), Yea

Schumer (D-NY), Yea

Sessions (R-AL), Nay

Shelby (R-AL), Nay

Smith (R-OR), Yea

Snowe (R-ME), Yea

Specter (R-PA), Yea

Stabenow (D-MI), Yea

Stevens (R-AK), Yea

Sununu (R-NH), Nay

Talent (R-MO), Nay

Thomas (R-WY), Nay

Thune (R-SD), Nay

Vitter (R-LA), Nay

Voinovich (R-OH), Nay

Warner (R-VA), Yea

Wyden (D-OR), Yea

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...