southsideirish71 Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 QUOTE(redandwhite @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 11:25 AM) I'm shocked that Garcia' stock has hit rock bottom amongst fans. When his fastball hits 86 on the gun at the Cell as opposed to the 91-94 we saw last year. What does that scream. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandwhite Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 QUOTE(CWSOX45 @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 11:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Still if Milledge isn't in the deal, forget it. Thats why I think the Mets are in no position to not put him in the deal. The Mets have a chance at a World Series right now. They need pitching, the best pitchers available are on the White Sox. I feel like they are almost inclined to trade Milledge because they really have nothing else to offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beautox Posted July 14, 2006 Author Share Posted July 14, 2006 QUOTE(shawnhillegas @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 11:08 AM) yes but you have to be concerned about injury. if anything happens and we dont have bmac, we are in big trouble We've got SP depth down at AAA, now don't laugh but we've got Haeger and Phillips and both preformed well at the AAA allstar game, and through out the course of a season. Also Hermanson is going to continue his rehab, hes been solid down at AAA, and Tracey is also down there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LVSoxFan Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 QUOTE(Balance @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 11:12 AM) You're not the only one. That proposed deal sounds like a significant downgrade for the ChiSox. I second that. I'm seeing starting pitching as the issue, not the bullpen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 QUOTE(redandwhite @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 04:25 PM) I'm shocked that Garcia' stock has hit rock bottom amongst fans. Why's that? He lost his fastball, which in turns makes his offspeed pitches easier to lay off of. He doesn't hold on runners, which is pathetic since he allows even more base runners right now. His K rate has drastically declined in the last few years. He's honestly the one pitcher I watch on the team and I wonder, how does he get anyone out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmbjeff Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 I have noticed nobody has mentioned the salary dumped in moving either Vaz/Garcia. Does anyone think this opens up the possibility for another trade right afterwards to improve CF or SS? Andruw Jones or Miguel Tejada? I'm not trying to be XBOX GM here or anything, but I could see moving a pitcher as a precursor to a bigger deal. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 QUOTE(LVSoxFan @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 04:28 PM) I second that. I'm seeing starting pitching as the issue, not the bullpen. Addition by subtraction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 QUOTE(CWSOX45 @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 09:26 AM) my mistake, it was duquette. Still, I don't even consider this deal if Milledge isn't involved. I'd rather have flash. Tom Gordon Tom Gordon + Cole Hamels? Ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 QUOTE(Frankensteiner @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 09:21 AM) And once again, we are talking about Freddy Garcia. At best, a middle of the road starter with an 86-mph fastball. Freddy's throwing harder than 86. He's consistently around 87-89 and can reach back to throw 90-93 if he wants to. And if KW decides to deal him, there's a good chance that the Sox are going to have to eat a large portion of his contract. And B-Mac will be forced into the #5 spot, which means that the Sox will need two relievers in return to gain anything out of the deal. I don't see it happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 04:29 PM) Tom Gordon Tom Gordon + Cole Hamels? Ok. For the short-term, Gordon is more valuable than Milledge. We all know that we're focused on the next 2 seasons as our "window". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gojimthome Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 QUOTE(beautox @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 11:28 AM) Also Hermanson is going to continue his rehab, hes been solid down at AAA 3 IP, 3 BB. Solidly s***ty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 QUOTE(WCSox @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 09:29 AM) Freddy's throwing harder than 86. He's consistently around 87-89 and can reach back to throw 90-93 if he wants to. And if KW decides to deal him, there's a good chance that the Sox are going to have to eat a large portion of his contract. And B-Mac will be forced into the #5 spot, which means that the Sox will need two relievers in return to gain anything out of the deal. I don't see it happening. I would eat a significant portion of Garcia's contract to get Milledge. But when you're dealing with a NY team, there's no reason why you should have to eat a significant portion of a contract. Throw in another minor leaguer and keep the money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 QUOTE(WCSox @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 04:29 PM) Freddy's throwing harder than 86. He's consistently around 87-89 and can reach back to throw 90-93 if he wants to. And if KW decides to deal him, there's a good chance that the Sox are going to have to eat a large portion of his contract. And B-Mac will be forced into the #5 spot, which means that the Sox will need two relievers in return to gain anything out of the deal. I don't see it happening. I haven't seen him above 91 mph on a legit gun this season. Also, it doesn't matter what he can max out at. If he's consistently around 88 mph the whole game, he's going to get crushed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 09:30 AM) For the short-term, Gordon is more valuable than Milledge. We all know that we're focused on the next 2 seasons as our "window". How would our team look to you in 2007 with Lastings Milledge starting in LF instead of Scott Podsednik? And Anyway, hasn't Kenny said he's not buying into the "Short window" thing, that he's going more for the Braves model, working in young guys and making smart trades so that he can win every year? He's not writing off 2008, I don't know why we should. Edited July 14, 2006 by Balta1701 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 If KW is shopping Freddy, Ozzie must have given his blessing. I think that says enough right there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 11:31 AM) How would our team look to you in 2007 with Lastings Milledge starting in LF instead of Scott Podsednik? Pretty odd with out a leadoff hitter. Milledge is one hell of a talent but Flash would definitely be more of a boost to this team than Lastings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 11:33 AM) Pretty odd with out a leadoff hitter. Milledge is one hell of a talent but Flash would definitely be more of a boost to this team than Lastings. Milledge would look pretty good around 2008-9. Gordon would look good 2006-7. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 09:31 AM) I haven't seen him above 91 mph on a legit gun this season. Also, it doesn't matter what he can max out at. If he's consistently around 88 mph the whole game, he's going to get crushed. If he's not locating his offspeed stuff, I agree. I've seen Freddy throw 88-89 consistently and reach back to throw 91-93 on a gun that clocked Jenks at 97-99 later in the same game. When people say that Freddy's fastball is 86 mph, it's misleading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gojimthome Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 11:33 AM) Pretty odd with out a leadoff hitter. Lots of SBs does not a leadoff hitter make. Look at Kevin Youkilis. It's all about the OBP. Iguchi at leadoff wouldn't be a significant downgrade from Podsednik. Neither would Milledge version 2007, in all likelihood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 09:32 AM) If KW is shopping Freddy, Ozzie must have given his blessing. I think that says enough right there. KW doesn't need Ozzie's "blessing" and I'm sure that the two of them have spoken about this before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 QUOTE(Contreras @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 11:35 AM) Lots of SBs does not a leadoff hitter make. Look at Kevin Youkilis. It's all about the OBP. Iguchi at leadoff wouldn't be a significant downgrade from Podsednik. Neither would Milledge version 2007, in all likelihood. Eh, I'm not getting into this argument now. I'll stick with the thread and just say that as talented as Milledge is, for right now Flash is more important...obviously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 QUOTE(sircaffey @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 11:22 AM) The time is now to dump Garcia. You would be able to get double now for him than what you would in the offseason. Dump him...PLEASE! agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 QUOTE(WCSox @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 11:36 AM) KW doesn't need Ozzie's "blessing" and I'm sure that the two of them have spoken about this before. I don't think there's a chance in hell KW would ship Freddy out of town without consulting Ozzie and getting his OK first. He doesn't need his blessing, but its best for everyone that he gets it, at least concerning Garcia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beautox Posted July 14, 2006 Author Share Posted July 14, 2006 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 11:24 AM) I don't know about that. He would be pitching in a bigger park, but he lets lots of hitters get on base now, and when they get there, they run wild. Freddy Garcia 2006 is a completely different pitcher from anything we have seen from him earlier. He could easily turn into a total disaster. I'm not a fan of Vazquez, but in the playoffs I'd rather have him pitching than Freddy throwing up his junk. The mets now have the best offense in the NL(which isn't saying much, seeing how they were man handled by the O's), with the reds tradeing away Lopez and Kearns. Garcia would face a pitcher 2-3 times a game, his numbers would go down, and like you said he would be in a bigger park. Garcia has never been able to hold on runners so i don't see how that changes now. Also the mets get 1 year and 3months out of Garcia, where as if they had gotten Zito they woul've gotten 3months and had to deal with Satan in the offseason. I think people give the mets FO to much credit, milledge isn't as untouchable as some of you make him out to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 Strengthening the bullpen will help out all of the Sox starters. All of them have shown signs of fatique. BMac could get stretched out fairly quickly, and should be strong in the second half as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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