jackie hayes Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 QUOTE(AbeFroman @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 04:35 PM) By the way, I wonder if Buster Olney knows how powerful he is: By merely mentioning a possible trade on tv today, he triggered a 175 post thread involving 44 separate posters in chicago... many of whom have been checking the tread all damn day... Look, whatever ss2k5 told you, post counts do NOT equal power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 I believe the real reason Zito is not being dealt right now is Harden's injury, not the fact that the A's are once again leading the division. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beautox Posted July 14, 2006 Author Share Posted July 14, 2006 QUOTE(AbeFroman @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 03:35 PM) By the way, I wonder if Buster Olney knows how powerful he is: By merely mentioning a possible trade on tv today, he triggered a 175 post thread involving 44 separate posters in chicago... many of whom have been checking the tread all damn day... I don't think people are buying into the hype of Olney, i think people(myself included) find his attempts at putting a trade together laughable, lest we forget the Jason Schmidt for McCarthy+Anderson idea, thats crazy, and i think people are just bored and waiting till the game @ 6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 QUOTE(iamshack @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 01:42 PM) I believe the real reason Zito is not being dealt right now is Harden's injury, not the fact that the A's are once again leading the division. Ok, here's your question then, if Harden was injured but the A's were still at the back of that division, do you think they'd trade Zito? I'd say yes. If Harden was healthy, and the A's were still leading that division, do you think they'd trade Zito? I'd say no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 02:08 PM) I'm going to defend Garcia for a second. First off, for as much as we like to bash Garcia, he is 10-5 with a 4.91 ERA. I'm not saying that's great or anything, but I'm sure there are still GMs out there that see the ten wins and have their eyes bulge up. Second, even with his junkballing, mysteriously losing 3 MPH off his fastball ways, Garcia is a #2-3 on most NL teams. There are a couple of exceptions (like Houston and maybe Florida), but for most NL teams, he's in the top part of the rotation. Third -- if he did go to the Mets -- he'd be leaving one of the best hitters parks in the AL and going to the one of the best pitcher's parks in the NL. Everybody here, everybody in baseball, everybody in the world knows how big the talent disparity is between the AL and the NL this year; you could probably shave at least a run off of Garcia's ERA if he were pitching in the NL this year. That said, I can see Omar getting a little ancy and realizing that, if the playoffs started today, Steve Trachsel (blah) would be his game three starter. I'd make a Heilman + Milledge move... This is also a little different than the Zito situation because Garcia is locked up for next year (and if the Sox eat, say, $2 million of Garcia's contract next year -- $8 million for Garcia in the NL would be a steal). As for a couple of other things... Garland, obviously not going anywhere, he's got that no-trade clause. Plus, he's been our second best starter the past month. Ditto Vazquez, he's staying, like it or not. It's not a Garcia situation where he's clearly lost stuff; he still has good movement on all his pitches. His peripherals (K/9, K/BB, HR/9) are all good. I think he's in for a better second half. Kenny, Ozzie, and Coop aren't going to give up on him after three months after wanting the guy for the past three years (not to mention trading Chris Young for him). Now this was the kinda post I was looking for. Excellent post, Keith. Danny Wright didn't get s***ted on as much as Garcia has around here of late. Edited July 14, 2006 by Jordan4life_2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 03:44 PM) Ok, here's your question then, if Harden was injured but the A's were still at the back of that division, do you think they'd trade Zito? I'd say yes. If Harden was healthy, and the A's were still leading that division, do you think they'd trade Zito? I'd say no. Well, they would have to be pretty bad to be out of contention in that division, so it's hard to say. But if Harden was healthy, and the Mets offered Milledge and Heilman for Zito, I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that BB would make that deal. BTW, anyone think Kenny would put the word out on Garcia to see if there are any offers out there where he could acquire the pieces for an eventual Carl Crawford deal? We all know Tampa can't take on market-priced starters, but they very well would take on younger pieces. I know it is a stretch, but I guess I can dream... :sleep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 QUOTE(Jordan4life_2006 @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 01:46 PM) Now this was the kinda post I was looking for. Excellent post, Keith. Danny Wright didn't get s***ted on as much as Garcia has around here of late. Brandon McCarthy wasn't pitching out of the bullpen because Danny Wright had a starting spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 03:49 PM) Brandon McCarthy wasn't pitching out of the bullpen because Danny Wright had a starting spot. That doesn't matter. Freddy is nowhere near as bad as this board is making him out to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 QUOTE(Jordan4life_2006 @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 03:50 PM) That doesn't matter. Freddy is nowhere near as bad as this board is making him out to be. If I was to ask you to rank your starting pitchers, including McCarthy, by their likelihood to succeed in the second half and 2007, how would you rank them? Garcia's junk is 's***ted on' for good reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beautox Posted July 14, 2006 Author Share Posted July 14, 2006 QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 03:52 PM) If I was to ask you to rank your starting pitchers, including McCarthy, by their likelihood to succeed in the second half and 2007, how would you rank them? Garcia's junk is 's***ted on' for good reason. Testify Brother Cheat Testify!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWhiteSoxinNJ Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 (edited) No way would I trade Garica. Besides, Ozzie won't let that happen...Fact is Garica wins games people! Edited July 14, 2006 by AWhiteSoxinNJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 03:52 PM) If I was to ask you to rank your starting pitchers, including McCarthy, by their likelihood to succeed in the second half and 2007, how would you rank them? Garcia's junk is 's***ted on' for good reason. Well, first off, the velocity on his fastball has been totally exaggerated around here. He is NOT topping out at 85 or 86. He's usually around 87-89 with the ability to get it up to 91/92 when he wants. And, as has been mentioned, he does have 10 or 11 quality starts this year. So it's not like he's been totally worthless out there. As far as McCarthy goes, I really don't know what to expect of him. How are you gonna tell a guy before the season starts that's he's gonna be in the 'pen, then mid-season throw him into the rotation when he's just now finally starting to adjust to his role? Now, I didn't say I would be against trading Garcia, but I don't want no stinking ass prospects back. If we trade him, it better be for some signifcant upgrades to this team for this season. Edited July 14, 2006 by Jordan4life_2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmbjeff Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 QUOTE(AWhiteSoxinNJ @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 03:53 PM) No way would I trade Garica. Besides, Ozzie won't let that happen...Fact is Garica wins games people! No the offense has won most of the games Freedy has pitched, not Freddy himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 Funny, on another board I just saw a Mariners' fan propose this deal: Garcia for Reed, Soriano, and Everett. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 6IP, 3ER, 5R, 4BB, 1SO, 11H | GAME ERA: 4.50 WHIP: 2.50 This is a quality start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 QUOTE(Jordan4life_2006 @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 03:46 PM) Now this was the kinda post I was looking for. Excellent post, Keith. Danny Wright didn't get s***ted on as much as Garcia has around here of late. The correct word is shat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 QUOTE(iamshack @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 04:04 PM) Funny, on another board I just saw a Mariners' fan propose this deal: Garcia for Reed, Soriano, and Everett. :puke Although I would kill for Soriano. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 04:04 PM) 6IP, 3ER, 5R, 4BB, 1SO, 11H | GAME ERA: 4.50 WHIP: 2.50 This is a quality start. They should call it a "meh start," not a quality start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 Quality starts stats are the most BS stats there are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 04:08 PM) Quality starts stats are the most BS stats there are. Which is why it should be disregarded any time someone feels the need to bring it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 04:04 PM) 6IP, 3ER, 5R, 4BB, 1SO, 11H | GAME ERA: 4.50 WHIP: 2.50 This is a quality start. I counted 11 quality starts by Freddy this year. And in only one of those did he give up more than 8 hits and 4 walks. I realize the guy has been VERY inconsistant this year. I'm still not ready to give him up for mediocre relievers and prospects. I hope Kenny isn't, either. QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 04:08 PM) Quality starts stats are the most BS stats there are. They usually mean you gave your team a good chance to win the game. I'd like all my starters to throw complete game shut-outs, too. But I live in the real world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 QUOTE(Jordan4life_2006 @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 04:10 PM) I counted 11 quality starts by Freddy this year. And in only one of those did he give up more than 8 hits and 4 walks. I realize the guy has been VERY inconsistant this year. I'm still not ready to give him up for mediocre relievers and prospects. I hope Kenny isn't, either. there have been times where he is our MOST consistent starter in the last couple years. are we willing to give up complete game one hitters (which he loses) and the like for prospects. i dont know - yeah he's not as hot this year but he's still a helluva pitcher who keeps us in games, and when he's on he's dominant. javy on the other hand i'd trade in an instant for flash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 The measure of a "quality" start IMHO should be 7 IP/2 ER or less. I believe under that definition, Buehrle has 10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 QUOTE(Jordan4life_2006 @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 04:10 PM) I counted 11 quality starts by Freddy this year. And in only one of those did he give up more than 8 hits and 4 walks. I realize the guy has been VERY inconsistant this year. I'm still not ready to give him up for mediocre relievers and prospects. I hope Kenny isn't, either. That doesn't change the fact that the stat is worthless. Who exactly is proposing a trade that would net the Sox "mediocre" talent in exchange for Garcia? The guy has a good amount of value right now, if the Sox move him, they'll be getting back good quality players not mediocre middle relievers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 04:14 PM) That doesn't change the fact that the stat is worthless. Who exactly is proposing a trade that would net the Sox "mediocre" talent in exchange for Garcia? The guy has a good amount of value right now, if the Sox move him, they'll be getting back good quality players not mediocre middle relievers. Aaron Heilman? Sanchez? He would get rocked in the AL. Milledge? Nice prospect. Doesn't do jack for us this year and maybe next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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