Garcia/Garland to the mets?

[fathom]

Am I the only one who thinks it'd be silly to get rid of a starter for bullpen help that, really, we don't need?

 

Not if that starter is Garcia. There's been a lot of great posts in this thread about why he should be the one that goes. I know I wouldn't mind not seeing his 88 mph finesse s*** the rest of the way. I would be so unbelievably proud of KW/Ozzie if they trade one of the underachieving starters.

[redandwhite]

QUOTE(Frankensteiner @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 11:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

From everything I read, Zito would be available provided you gave Beane the right combo of players. Schmidt also might be available.

 

Regardless, we are talking about Freddy Garcia. You might give him the tag of "best starting pitcher available" but that really is meaningless. We've both seen Garcia pitch for the entire season. There's no way in the world I would give up our best prospects (Anderson, Fields, McCarthy) to trade for him if some other GM made him available.

And somehow in a similar situation last year, McCarthy was inches away from being shipped to the Marlns.

 

Thats baseball. The White Sox couldn't rely on Hernandez in the fifth slot, needed some offense aswell, and almost got rid of there best prospect because of it.

 

Thankfully they did not, but Omar Minaya's track record isn't as lucky, ala:

 

June 27, 2002: Traded by the Cleveland Indians with Tim Drew to the Montreal Expos for Lee Stevens, Brandon Phillips, Cliff Lee, and Grady Sizemore.

[shawnhillegas]

Saying Lastings Milledge isn't available for Barry Zito is just ridiculous. That was an outburst after New York fans were calling for his head after the two errors he made in Fenway.

 

If it nets them Zito, or better yet, a player whose going to be under contract next year ala Javier Vazquez or Freddy Garcia, Milledge will probably be available.

 

Freddy Garcia is not good. They will not trade their best prospect for him. End of story.

 

Am I the only one who thinks it'd be silly to get rid of a starter for bullpen help that, really, we don't need?

 

i agree

[redandwhite]

QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 11:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just do a search on zito and milledge, and you'll find a slew of articles about just this from well before the Fenway series. So, no.

Just because ESPN's Coors Light Cold Hard Facts said he wasn't available, doesn't mean he's completely off limits. Things change.

[shawnhillegas]

Not if that starter is Garcia. There's been a lot of great posts in this thread about why he should be the one that goes. I know I wouldn't mind not seeing his 88 mph finesse s*** the rest of the way. I would be so unbelievably proud of KW/Ozzie if they trade one of the underachieving starters.

 

yes but you have to be concerned about injury. if anything happens and we dont have bmac, we are in big trouble

[jackie hayes]

Just because ESPN's Coors Light Cold Hard Facts said he wasn't available, doesn't mean he's completely off limits. Things change.

Yeah, cuz that's the only place it was said...

 

And your point was that it was never brought up before the Fenway series. Which "is just ridiculous". It has been reported everywhere. If you don't think it's true, bravo. But don't go trying to pass off crap to make your argument better.

[Balta1701]

yes but you have to be concerned about injury. if anything happens and we dont have bmac, we are in big trouble

We do have backup options still at AAA. I know Haeger's 1st start wasn't anything to write home about, but if anything did happen to one of our innings-eaters, the guy's ready for a callup. He'd be in the rotation on probably more than 1/2 of the teams in the big leagues right now.

[WCSox]

Am I the only one who thinks it'd be silly to get rid of a starter for bullpen help that, really, we don't need?

 

I think that we could definitely use somebody to replace Politte, but that with Thronton pitching well and the addition of Riske, it's not worth giving up an innings-eating starter.

 

I don't see the Sox dumping Garcia jbefore the end of the season, mostly because the long-term viability of both Vazquez and Garland is still in question.

[Steve9347]

I'm sniffing a deal with Philly...

 

 

Freddy and Mackowiak

 

for

 

Flash and Crash

Edited July 14, 2006 by Steve9347

[Balance]

Am I the only one who thinks it'd be silly to get rid of a starter for bullpen help that, really, we don't need?

You're not the only one. That proposed deal sounds like a significant downgrade for the ChiSox.

[Balta1701]

Flash and Crash

NO NO NO.

[Rowand44]

I'm sniffing a deal with Philly...

Freddy and something

 

for

 

Flash and Crash

No Aaron. He needs to stay in Phili.

Edited July 14, 2006 by Rowand44

[Balta1701]

I'm actually starting to like Aaron Rowand less just because of all these people saying it'd be a good idea to trade for him. Yeesh.

Edited July 14, 2006 by Balta1701

[KevHead0881]

yes but you have to be concerned about injury. if anything happens and we dont have bmac, we are in big trouble

 

That would be my only concern in a Garcia/Vazquez deal. Without one of those guys, we'd be an injury away from having our pre-2005 5th starter situation. Yikes!

 

But besides that, if we can swing one of those guys for bullpen help (particularly Gordon), then all the sudden we improve our rotation with the addition of McCarthy, and improve our bullpen with the addition of (insert name here).

 

Either way, I like the position we are sitting in.

[Dick Allen]

And somehow in a similar situation last year, McCarthy was inches away from being shipped to the Marlns.

 

Thats baseball. The White Sox couldn't rely on Hernandez in the fifth slot, needed some offense aswell, and almost got rid of there best prospect because of it.

 

Thankfully they did not, but Omar Minaya's track record isn't as lucky, ala:

 

June 27, 2002: Traded by the Cleveland Indians with Tim Drew to the Montreal Expos for Lee Stevens, Brandon Phillips, Cliff Lee, and Grady Sizemore.

That was Bartolo Colon. He's a little different than Freddy Garcia throwing 86, and it was a trade he can learn from.

[Frankensteiner]

And somehow in a similar situation last year, McCarthy was inches away from being shipped to the Marlns.

 

You might need to refresh my memory on this. I thought they were ready to trade Contreras/Marte instead of McCarthy. Still, AJ Burnett looked a whole lot better last year (3.33 ERA, 1.21 WHIP) than Garcia does now (4.91 ERA, 1.39 WHIP).

[Steve9347]

I'm not saying we SHOULD trade for Crash, but the interest that Kenny has in him cannot be ignored.

 

I think BA will finish this season strongly, I'm just trying to figure out a deal... Tom Gordon is too old to be worth one of our starters...

Edited July 14, 2006 by Steve9347

[Rowand44]

And somehow in a similar situation last year, McCarthy was inches away from being shipped to the Marlns.

 

Thats baseball. The White Sox couldn't rely on Hernandez in the fifth slot, needed some offense aswell, and almost got rid of there best prospect because of it.

 

Thankfully they did not, but Omar Minaya's track record isn't as lucky, ala:

 

June 27, 2002: Traded by the Cleveland Indians with Tim Drew to the Montreal Expos for Lee Stevens, Brandon Phillips, Cliff Lee, and Grady Sizemore.

I like how you won't believe the Milledge stuff that you read but you believe that Bmac was inches away from being shipped to Florida.

[redandwhite]

QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 11:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, cuz that's the only place it was said...

 

And your point was that it was never brought up before the Fenway series. Which "is just ridiculous". It has been reported everywhere. If you don't think it's true, bravo. But don't go trying to pass off crap to make your argument better.

That wasn't my argument. I don't give a damn who said Milledge wasn't available, the same bulls*** was said about Grady Sizemore and the Indians netted alot more than just him alone for Colon.

 

So don't try pass off crap and say that I'm arguing something im not.

[beautox]

Well, about the only team I could see actually being able to say that might be the Nationals with Livan Hernandez, who interestingly enough has an ERA of about 6 in the NL this year. Maybe the Marlins with D-Train, but I think they'll still hold onto him as good as they've looked this year. Maybe the Braves with Smoltz, but they really don't have room for Milledge in their outfield with Francoeur.

 

Look up and down the list...almost every team in contention needs pitching to make a run. Boston, NY, Toronto, Detroit, Minnesota, Texas, The Mets, the Cardinals, the Brewers, the Reds, the Padres, the Rockies, the Giants, all of them could use another starting pitcher.

 

The only teams in contention with enough starting pitching on paper IMO are the A's, the Halos, maybe Houston, and the White Sox. And the A's and Halos are in no position to deal away starting pitching unless they're white flagging this whole season. The White Sox are about the only team who is in a position to give away a genuinely top of the rotation starting pitcher, as we have BMac sitting around waiting. Everyone else needs pitching, and the teams at the bottom of the league, aside from Florida, don't have arms nearly as good as Vazquez/Garcia could be.

 

Like you said balta the marlins aren't trading Willis, Olivo(ha! funny saying this, but in a good way) is going to be their catcher for the next 3-5 years, hes going to get locked up, and all the Marlins are looking for is a blue chip CF, and the peices they have to trade to aquire it are the following : Herges, Borowski, & Mitre/a ton of top pitching prospects. Another note is the braves are 6 out of the WC, and i wouldn't be supprised if they come back into the picture the second half, so its obvious that there aren't alot of real sellers and pitching good pitching is hard to find and the white sox again will come out on top. God i love this FO.

[Balta1701]

I'm not saying we SHOULD trade for Crash, but the interest that Kenny has in him cannot be ignored.

Kenny has never said a single thing about being interested in him. It's been vastly more blown up by sportswriters and message board posters than by anything coming out of the White Sox organization.

[redandwhite]

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 11:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I like how you won't believe the Milledge stuff that you read but you believe that Bmac was inches away from being shipped to Florida.

I think things change. The mets are in a diar need for starting pitching, saying months prior that Milledge isn't available no longer has any meaning.

 

Once again, things change.

[Rowand44]

I'd rather have either of the two out of the pen than Gordon...

Wow. :headshake

[fathom]

If we make a deal, besides getting a solid reliever, we should also get some prospects that could be used in order to try and get Carl Crawford in the offseason. We already have one great chip to use (Fields).

[southsideirish71]

That would be my only concern in a Garcia/Vazquez deal. Without one of those guys, we'd be an injury away from having our pre-2005 5th starter situation. Yikes!

 

But besides that, if we can swing one of those guys for bullpen help (particularly Gordon), then all the sudden we improve our rotation with the addition of McCarthy, and improve our bullpen with the addition of (insert name here).

 

Either way, I like the position we are sitting in.

 

Garcia has been pitching like the 5th starter from years ago to the AL this year. So take that for what its worth.