English subtitles not needed says ACLU

[EvilMonkey]

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006/7/...0036.shtml?s=ic

 

ACLU Doesn’t Want English Signs

 

The American Civil Liberties Union has asked officials in a Detroit suburb to reject a proposal that would require businesses with foreign language signs to add English translations.

 

"We write to strongly urge you to abandon the measure as unconstitutional, anti-immigrant and unnecessary," the ACLU wrote to the city Thursday in a letter that was also signed by officials with the American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee of Michigan and Latin Americans for Social and Economic Development Inc.

 

In May, Sterling Heights, Mich., Councilwoman Barbara Ziarko asked the city's attorney to prepare an ordinance requiring businesses with foreign language signs to have identifiers such as "bakery" included, the Detroit News reports.

 

Fire Chief John Childs supported the move, arguing that people passing by the site of a fire or other emergency could inform dispatchers about the location more easily if they could read the signs.

 

He maintained that the issue has nothing to do with race.

 

"This is about response time," he said.

The city issued a statement Thursday defending the proposed ordinance.

 

"Any assertion that the city's public safety effort is intended as a restriction on the expression of cultural diversity is categorically denied," the statement said

 

I think that this SHOULD happen. In fact, I think they should also make the TV's provide English translations of the hispanic tv shows. Those game shows I see when flipping channels look super wierd, and knowing what they were saying just might make it a llittle clearer! On a serious note, how can they oppose this, and in the same breath demand bi-lingual things be printed up in spanish?

[jackie hayes]

It never says English is not allowed, just that it's not chosen. But, of course, you knew that. And still picked this title. Yup.

 

Speaking for myself, I'm very happy that they "demand bi-lingual things be printed up in spanish". Bilingual things printed only in English are kinda confusing.

[CrimsonWeltall]

On a serious note, how can they oppose this, and in the same breath demand bi-lingual things be printed up in spanish?

 

Depends what things they are demanding be printed in Spanish. Did they demand businesses create non-English signs or was it something related to govt (like voting ballots, maybe)?

[Balta1701]

If a business in Philadelphia has the right to put up a sign saying "Speak English", then there's no reason why these businesses should be required to put up signs in English, unless they're providing a government service.

[Soxy]

It never says English is not allowed, just that it's not chosen. But, of course, you knew that. And still picked this title. Yup.

 

Speaking for myself, I'm very happy that they "demand bi-lingual things be printed up in spanish". Bilingual things printed only in English are kinda confusing.

Misleading title changed.

[EvilMonkey]

So the city says, you know, most of our emergency response personell don't speak or read spanish, as is the case with a large part of our general population. How about you guys put a simple English translation on your signs saying what you are, like 'Bakery' or Beauty Salon' so that if an emergency does happen, and a person who is trying to report it doesn't read spanish, they actually have a chance to correctly tell 911 where the emergency is? Then the ACLU steps in and says 'you don't have to do that, its anti-immigrant!' How the heck is that anti-anything? Seems to me that it may stop a place from being robbed in the future, or help an ambulance get somewhere faster. If they want to object to it because they fear the cost of doing so would be prohibitive, then say so. Why are they hiding behind what is esentially a claim of racism?

[CrimsonWeltall]

I don't see how generic English signs would help people identify the location of a fire at all.

 

First of all, if you were calling in a fire, the most important thing to use is the location, not the store type. "Hey the beauty salon is on fire." isn't going to be very helpful.

 

Secondly, for some stores, you can tell what it is just by looking at it. The English sign isn't needed. AND, if you can't tell what kind of store it is just by looking at it, then the generic English sign is 100% worthless anyway.

 

You seemed to ignore that "anti-immigrant" was sandwiched between "unconstitutional" and "unnecessary".

[EvilMonkey]

I don't see how generic English signs would help people identify the location of a fire at all.

 

First of all, if you were calling in a fire, the most important thing to use is the location, not the store type. "Hey the beauty salon is on fire." isn't going to be very helpful.

 

Secondly, for some stores, you can tell what it is just by looking at it. The English sign isn't needed. AND, if you can't tell what kind of store it is just by looking at it, then the generic English sign is 100% worthless anyway.

 

You seemed to ignore that "anti-immigrant" was sandwiched between "unconstitutional" and "unnecessary".

OK, then how is this also unconstitutional an unnecessary? Sure, you can tell what some places are without a sign, but others? I am criticizing the fact that the ACLU is jumping on this as anti-anything. And when calling in an emergency, any descriptive items help, such as 'on 34th street, by the bakery'. I don't see how this could hurt anything except their wallets, which is about the only thing they have NOT complained about.

[EvilMonkey]

Sterling Heights reply to the ACLU letter:(sorry, don't know how to make the small link)

http://www.ci.sterling-heights.mi.us/bins/...=false&NC=9982X

 

City responds to ACLU Correspondence

By: cr - Thursday, July 13, 2006

 

STERLING HEIGHTS -- On July 13, 2006, the City of Sterling Heights received a letter from the American Civil Liberties Union of Michigan (ACLU) expressing its viewpoint relating to English language requirements for business signs.

 

The City of Sterling Heights is currently in the process of updating its entire Fire Code. This process may include a revision that would require all businesses to post a premises identification sign in order to facilitate the ability of first responders to locate an emergency call. At this time, the Administration has made no recommendation to the City Council, as it continues to review and weigh the public safety concerns that have led other communities throughout the country to adopt similar requirements.

 

It is premature to discuss this public safety issue at this time, prior to affording the Sterling Heights City Council an opportunity to review a draft of any proposed revisions to the Fire Code. The City of Sterling Heights has long valued and fostered the cultural diversity of its residents and businesses, as evidenced by the fact that more than 30 different languages are spoken within the community. This community was also one of the first municipalities in the state to establish an Ethnic Community Committee, comprised of City residents, to serve in an advisory capacity to the City Council.

 

Any assertion that the City's public safety effort is intended as a restriction on the expression of cultural diversity is categorically denied

[CrimsonWeltall]

OK, then how is this also unconstitutional an unnecessary?

 

I explained how it was unnecessary. I'm not sure what the constitutional argument is.

 

Sure, you can tell what some places are without a sign, but others?

 

I addressed this directly.

 

I am criticizing the fact that the ACLU is jumping on this as anti-anything.

 

Yes, it is hasty of them to declare this anti-immigrant. It was probably the combination of a lot of recent ENGLISH RULZ news events and the fact that the law has little to no practical purpose.

 

And when calling in an emergency, any descriptive items help, such as 'on 34th street, by the bakery'.

 

This is less descriptive than "on 34th street, by the Suarez Panederia".

[jackie hayes]

This is less descriptive than "on 34th street, by the Suarez Panederia".

To be fair, it is an Arabic-speaking area, so we are talking about a different alphabet too.

[WilliamTell]

Can we please get an official language for this country?

[Gregory Pratt]

Can we please get an official language for this country?

 

No.

[Rex Kickass]

Can we please get an official language for this country?

Why? Feel like emulating the French?

[Soxy]

Can we please get an official language for this country?

Should it be Navajo or Algonquin or Crow or Lakhota?

 

I personally would vote for Lakhota, but that's just me.

[EvilMonkey]

Why? Feel like emulating the French?

No, so that we don't emulate Quebec.

[Soxy]

No, so that we don't emulate Quebec.

Have you been to Quebec? Because the way this piece sounds, it doesn't really remind me of Quebec and they way their language laws are structured.

 

And, for the record, French IS an official language of Canada. So, your comparison isn't very valid. Unless you would like to further illuminate what you're saying for me.

[EvilMonkey]

And, for the record, French IS an official language of Canada. So, your comparison isn't very valid. Unless you would like to further illuminate what you're saying for me.

Exactally. One place in the whole country has French as its official language, while the rest of the country has to deal with dual languages. What a boondoggle that must be for any governmental branch. " English and French are the official languages of all federal government institutions in Canada. This means that the public has the right to communicate with, and receive services from, federal government institutions in either English or French and that federal government employees have the right to work in the official language of their choice in designated bilingual regions" Can you imagine the havok that would cause in lost productivity (as if government is productive as it is!) if Joe Citizen could demand that court proceeding be done in Spanish instead of English? Or that drivers license tests be done in Farsi?

[Soxy]

Exactally. One place in the whole country has French as its official language, while the rest of the country has to deal with dual languages. What a boondoggle that must be for any governmental branch. " English and French are the official languages of all federal government institutions in Canada. This means that the public has the right to communicate with, and receive services from, federal government institutions in either English or French and that federal government employees have the right to work in the official language of their choice in designated bilingual regions" Can you imagine the havok that would cause in lost productivity (as if government is productive as it is!) if Joe Citizen could demand that court proceeding be done in Spanish instead of English? Or that drivers license tests be done in Farsi?

Most anglo-phone Canadians I know don't mind. And most of the Franco-phone Canadians (admittedly I know more French Canadians) also speak English quite well. I don't think that there's any lost productivity in Canada. I don't know of any hard data either way, but I can't really believe that countries with more than one official language (or NO official language) are any less productive or efficient than other countries. Do you know any supporting data or anything (not being snarky, but I really would like to know if Canada suffers because of the dual language thing).

[EvilMonkey]

Most anglo-phone Canadians I know don't mind. And most of the Franco-phone Canadians (admittedly I know more French Canadians) also speak English quite well. I don't think that there's any lost productivity in Canada. I don't know of any hard data either way, but I can't really believe that countries with more than one official language (or NO official language) are any less productive or efficient than other countries. Do you know any supporting data or anything (not being snarky, but I really would like to know if Canada suffers because of the dual language thing).

I was not referring to Canada in those comments, but rather the US if it were to have to do everything dual or triple language. You think the Dept. of Motor Vehicles is slow now, just wait and see if we have to switch to more than English. Yes, I know, they have the tests in spanish (which makes ZERO sense since all the traffic signs are in ENGLISH), but if there doesn't happen to be someone working that day who speaks spansih, the applicant can't stand there and demand one. I guess I am sorta topic-jumping here as WilliamTell made a comment about English as the official language, then a few of us went off on that tangent.

[Rex Kickass]

Exactally. One place in the whole country has French as its official language, while the rest of the country has to deal with dual languages. What a boondoggle that must be for any governmental branch. " English and French are the official languages of all federal government institutions in Canada. This means that the public has the right to communicate with, and receive services from, federal government institutions in either English or French and that federal government employees have the right to work in the official language of their choice in designated bilingual regions" Can you imagine the havok that would cause in lost productivity (as if government is productive as it is!) if Joe Citizen could demand that court proceeding be done in Spanish instead of English? Or that drivers license tests be done in Farsi?

 

Actually, French is a national language in Canada. It just happens that a majority of French speakers live in Quebec. There is French TV in Toronto, for example - and CBC broadcasts in French on the air, across the country.

 

Joe Citizen can indeed demand that court proceedings be done in Spanish - and they frequently are through the use of court-appointed translators. Because the American legal system deems it important that people facing justice are aware of the proceedings around him. Or is that just more America hating on the part of those activist judges again?

[EvilMonkey]

Actually, French is a national language in Canada. It just happens that a majority of French speakers live in Quebec. There is French TV in Toronto, for example - and CBC broadcasts in French on the air, across the country.

 

Joe Citizen can indeed demand that court proceedings be done in Spanish - and they frequently are through the use of court-appointed translators. Because the American legal system deems it important that people facing justice are aware of the proceedings around him. Or is that just more America hating on the part of those activist judges again?

REad my post again before you bring your fangs out.

Exactally. One place in the whole country has French as its official language, while the rest of the country has to deal with dual languages.

[Soxy]

REad my post again before you bring your fangs out.

I think he was protesting (no fangs) that you said ONE place in Canada had French. While Rex was pointing out that ALL of Canada has dual langauges (meaning French is official in ALL of Canada's provinces); and that both languages are used and learned ACROSS Canada.

[Rex Kickass]

REad my post again before you bring your fangs out.

Have you been to Montreal? A lot of English there for nobody speaking it.

[Soxy]

Have you been to Montreal? A lot of English there for nobody speaking it.

Funny story, In Montreal I would order or ask a question in French (poor French) to try and be respectful of the culture of the French Canadians, and 90% of the time they would answer me in English.