Pitching scenarios leading up to the deadline

[beck72]

With all the Garcia/ Vazquez talk recently, and KW's and Ozzie's response to those questions, a few things jump out at me. Here is my take of what will/ may happen w/ the pitching:

 

1] I believe KW did let teams know a SP is available [for the right price of course--a top set up man and a very good prospect--Heilman, Bradford or Sanchez won't cut it]; however, few teams in the playoff hunt will bite. And the sox don't really want to mess with the rotation [and bullpen with BMac moving into the 5th spot] this summer. Only a blockbuster that will help improve the sox chances of repeating this yr. So the chances of a SP being moved is slim to none. But KW is throwing that option out there

 

2] The sox should tell Gillick that they'll beat any offer for Tom Gordon [ala the Freddy Garcia deal w/ Sea]. He's the best reliever out there right now. And it will give the sox a chance to up their offer at the last minute. The sox have the pieces Philly needs [sP-Broadway, Haeger, Phillips, TRacey and 3b in Fields]. The sox don't want to move Fields but may be forced to [esp if a team from the AL comes in and wants him]. Chances are it won't take Fields to land Gordon. But the chances of Gordon being aquired, IMO: very good

 

3] Other bullpen guys may become available as teams fall out of contention in the next few weeks. This may give the Sox other options to improve. Chances of other relievers being available: decent.

But the fallback option is Gordon.

 

4] Politte and Hermanson may be able to get back on track in the next few weeks. Chances of either helping significantly: very slim

 

Thoughts?

[DrunkBomber]

Doesnt sound like theres much out there worth what we would have to give up. I really dont want to give up any of our good prospects for a rent a relief pitcher for the rest of the year. Id rather see a bigger package for someone whoreally fits and we can really benefit from. I wouldnt mind at all seeing Garcia or Vasquez packaged with a minor leaguer or even BA if we could get the right player.

[Frankensteiner]

Well, I hope option 1 is the one we choose. We need help in our rotation and opening up a spot for McCarthy is still better than sitting on our hands hoping our guys just turn it around. Getting Gordon for one of our starters would be the best of both worlds, as it improves our rotation AND bullpen. Plus it means we still get to keep all our prospects as trading chips for another move if someone good becomes available (Schmidt, Willis, Smoltz, Jones, etc.).

[beck72]

Well, I hope option 1 is the one we choose. We need help in our rotation and opening up a spot for McCarthy is still better than sitting on our hands hoping our guys just turn it around. Getting Gordon for one of our starters would be the best of both worlds, as it improves our rotation AND bullpen. Plus it means we still get to keep all our prospects as trading chips for another move if someone good becomes available (Schmidt, Willis, Smoltz, Jones, etc.).

 

I guess the key is what team would be the trading partner. The sox it seems are set on getting top talent in any trade of a SP as they should. The proposed deals so far [mets and Philly for gordon] don't cut it. Teams hovering around .500 need to keep all their assets. Only deep pocketed and teams loaded with talent could be paying the sox asking price

 

I wouldnt mind at all seeing Garcia or Vasquez packaged with a minor leaguer or even BA if we could get the right player.

It sounds like KW wants "players" not just one guy in return for a SP [as he should]

[santo=dorf]

Something just doesn't sound right about trading a SP for a reliever. I dunno.

I don't know what Garcia's problem is, but I still don't think he's pitching as bad as the overall numbers look.

Vazquez really, really, really needs to avoid the big inning. It's so Annoying.

Garland isn't going to waive his NTC.

You can't trade Buehrle even with his recent struggles.

[beck72]

Something just doesn't sound right about trading a SP for a reliever. I dunno.

I don't know what Garcia's problem is, but I still don't think he's pitching as bad as the overall numbers look.

Vazquez really, really, really needs to avoid the big inning. It's so Annoying.

Garland isn't going to waive his NTC.

You can't trade Buehrle even with his recent struggles.

I agree. Esp. seeing how any deal has to improve the sox dramatically. Few teams will or are in a postition do that

[TitoMB345]

I really hope the "Politte turning it around" thing was a joke. He's done. It's just too bad Kenny and/or Ozzie don't see it. Damn mop up work and the guy sucks big time.

[Frankensteiner]

I guess the key is what team would be the trading partner. The sox it seems are set on getting top talent in any trade of a SP as they should. The proposed deals so far [mets and Philly for gordon] don't cut it. Teams hovering around .500 need to keep all their assets. Only deep pocketed and teams loaded with talent could be paying the sox asking price

 

I don't know why you think that. An All-Star closer for a struggling starting pitcher seems like a great return to me.

[beck72]

I really hope the "Politte turning it around" thing was a joke. He's done. It's just too bad Kenny and/or Ozzie don't see it. Damn mop up work and the guy sucks big time.

I said the Sox seem to be looking into that scenario [as they have made those public comments], along with Hermanson. It's not something I think will happen. Politte is hurt/ done/ not the same pitcher as he was in 2005 and cannot be trusted to hold a team down in the late innings.

[AWhiteSoxinNJ]

Javy and Cash for Gordon....thats all i'm willing to offer....It would be a HUGE mistake to trade Freddy.

[beck72]

I don't know why you think that. An All-Star closer for a struggling starting pitcher seems like a great return to me.

I don't think KW will go for that, unless Philly adds more.

 

Javy and Cash for Gordon....thats all i'm willing to offer....It would be a HUGE mistake to trade Freddy.

Not going to happen

[Milkman delivers]

Javy and Cash for Gordon....thats all i'm willing to offer....It would be a HUGE mistake to trade Freddy.

 

I'm sick of hearing that. Garcia is awful and getting worse. He should be the one to go.

[Balta1701]

Our starting pitchers are simply worth more than Tom Gordon. Any and all of them are. Anything in our minor leagues for him is fair game.

[beck72]

Our starting pitchers are simply worth more than Tom Gordon. Any and all of them are. Anything in our minor leagues for him is fair game.

I agree. There will be a minor leaguer many on this board will see as untouchable traded, that the sox staff have pegged as "not coming back to bite them in the ass" [ie someone who has more value in trade than they do for the big club]. Who it is I don't know. But the sox have been right on w/ their trades and good judges of their minor league talent for a while now.

[Frank the Tank 35]

Some person over at the mlb board said Politte just got DFA'ed. http://www.forums.mlb.com/n/mb/message.asp...g=65653.1&ctx=0

 

...so hopefully the polecat will be the first to be traded.

[Kalapse]

Some person over at the mlb board said Politte just got DFA'ed. http://www.forums.mlb.com/n/mb/message.asp...g=65653.1&ctx=0

 

...so hopefully the polecat will be the first to be traded.

There's a reason why most people don't bother reading the MLB boards. News of a Clifford DFA would not surprise me one bit but this is about as unreliable of a source as you're going to find.

[dasox24]

Right now, we could own the trade market and get way more than either Freddy or Javier is worth.

 

Reason 1) They would be the two best SPs available and at this time of year some people will do anything to add pitching.

 

Reason 2) We don't have to make any trades. We're pretty damn solid as it is, with a team that has enough talent to win a World Series. So, if a team came to us and was like, "We'll offer you this. Take it or leave it," and we don't like that offer, we could turn it down in a heartbeat, move on, and never second guess it.

 

Kenny knows this and will be smart in playing his cards knowing that he has 2 huge advantages: Knowing he has best talent available and that he doesn't have to make a move if he doesn't want to.

 

Btw, this being said, I would personally rather see us trade Freddy if we are going to trade one of the two.

[beck72]

Right now, we could own the trade market and get way more than either Freddy or Javier is worth.

 

The sox may be able to get more than either are worth. But the key question is, would the deal make the sox stronger, and more likely to repeat? The only way the sox could likely get more for htem is by getting prospects--hence, not likely to make them stronger this yr

[DBAHO]

Ken Rosenthal said this in his trade notes today;

 

White Sox general manager Ken Williams might be aggressive, but he isn't reckless. So, discount any reports that he's willing to trade right-hander Brandon McCarthy and center fielder Brian Anderson to the Giants for right-hander Jason Schmidt.

 

Not even the most hare-brained GM would move two young talents, each with less than one year of service time, for a potential free agent that could depart in less than three months.

The White Sox, who face the Yankees on Saturday on MLB on FOX (1 p.m. ET), did ask about Braves center fielder Andruw Jones and Marlins left-hander Dontrelle Willis, and in both cases were told, "No!"

 

A McCarthy-Anderson package would make sense for either of those players, but the Braves and Marlins weren't even willing to exchange names, much less enter serious discussions.

 

One possibility for the Sox would be to trade a starting pitcher, probably right-hander Freddy Garcia, for two pieces: An established reliever who would enable McCarthy to move into the rotation and a young starter who could join the rotation by 2008.

 

Garcia, one of three Sox starters who entered the All-Star break with an ERA of 4.91 or higher, is the most expendable member of the team's vaunted starting staff, which ranks a mere sixth in the American League in rotation ERA.

 

The Sox aren't going to trade left-hander Mark Buehrle. Right-handers Jose Contreras and Jon Garland both have no-trade clauses for this season. And club officials believe righty Javier Vazquez might produce the best second half of any of their pitchers.

 

So if it's a starter dealt, looks like Freddy's the guy.

[beck72]

Ken Rosenthal said this in his trade notes today;

So if it's a starter dealt, looks like Freddy's the guy.

 

If the sox are looking for a prospect ready to join the rotation in 2008 [someone the caliber of the 5 SP's we have now], that guy must be tearing up AA now. Few teams are going to give up a lights out set up man/ closer and a stud prospect.

[GoodAsGould]

If the sox are looking for a prospect ready to join the rotation in 2008 [someone the caliber of the 5 SP's we have now], that guy must be tearing up AA now. Few teams are going to give up a lights out set up man/ closer and a stud prospect.

 

I dont think it would take a lights out middle relief pitcher but someone that can give us a Vizcaino type role out of the bullpen to replace B-Mac. than id hope a good prospect....

[DBAHO]

If the sox are looking for a prospect ready to join the rotation in 2008 [someone the caliber of the 5 SP's we have now], that guy must be tearing up AA now. Few teams are going to give up a lights out set up man/ closer and a stud prospect.

Yeah it would be hard to find a match. The only team I could really think of off the top my head was Texas.

 

Jon Daniels in his 1st year as GM could be aggressive enough to go for it. They've got 4 good SP prospects in Eric Hurley (3.87 ERA at high A with 100/30 K/BB ratio), Edinson Volquez (3.32 ERA at AAA with 107/63 K/BB ratio), John Danks (combined 4.23 ERA at high A and AA with 101/32 K/BB ratio) and Thomas Diamond (3.90 ERA at AA with 115/57 K/BB ratio). So they've got enough SP prospects there, that Daniels could move one to upgrade the ballclub now.

 

As for the piece in their pen, maybe a Cordero (though has an expensive option for next season, so probably would need to re-negotiate contract) or a Rick Bauer (3.14 ERA) or Ron Mahay (3.46 ERA).

[GoodAsGould]

Id think of the 4 Danks is probably the biggest untouchable of them. Hurley is the guy id target and than prob Cordero and maybe even Frankie Francisco can be added if we throw in some scrub?

[beck72]

I dont think it would take a lights out middle relief pitcher but someone that can give us a Vizcaino type role out of the bullpen to replace B-Mac. than id hope a good prospect....

It should be for a lights out bullpen guy. Anything less and the sox wouldn't be getting the right kind of value

[dasox24]

The Reds could also be another possible team we could deal with. I know they just got robbed in a trade with the Nationals, and maybe would be hesitant to deal again (now that they've angered the fans).

 

However, what they added in that trade were two quailty major league relievers, so maybe they made that trade to add pieces for another trade for a SP, which they really need.

 

I think a trade of Freddy, Politte, and maybe a minor leaguer like Sean Tracey for, say, Gary Majewski, Bill Bray, plus minor leaguers Homer Bailey (SP) and Jay Bruce (OF) would get the job done.

 

This would give the Reds a quality SP with ace potential if he pitches like we know he can, a reliever who could use a change of scenery, and Tracey, who could either be plugged into their rotation or bullpen. In return, we get two major league relievers (both with sub-4 ERA's) which would allow BMac to step into the rotation, a top pitching prospect who could be ready by 2008 and a top OF prospect who's only 19 years old.

 

If I was offered this, I would seriously consider it.

 

All that being said, if I'm KW, when it's all said and done, I'd prefer to stick with what we have and plug-in Sean Tracey in the 'pen, and if he doesn't work out, then start trying out other pitchers, like Heath Phillips, Chuck Haeger, and maybe Tim Redding.

 

Just throwing out an option...