Idea: Vazquez and Pods for Gordon and Abreu

[GoodAsGould]

Yeah, who'd want anything to do with a guy leading his league in OBP?

 

No matter the OBP 15 million is too much money for a guy who doesnt hit for power and plays crap defense.

[SABR Sox]

I forget the stat that Fox said yesterday. Something along the lines of Pods hitting .330 in sox wins and like .188 in sox losses.

 

The sox don't need Abreu. And Vazquez has as big a chance of any SP on the sox of improving in the 2nd half.

 

They don't need Abreu, but damn could they use him, especially if we can somehow rid Pods.

 

But I do agree with the Vazquez statement. I see better things coming.

[iamshack]

They don't need Abreu, but damn could they use him, especially if we can somehow rid Pods.

 

But I do agree with the Vazquez statement. I see better things coming.

 

Here we go again with the Pods bashing.

 

I know it makes you Saber guys excited to point out what a worthless player he is, but if you haven't noticed, he is doing a pretty decent job of getting on base lately.

 

I suppose it would be the ultimate coup d etat for the WS Saber community to replace worthless Pods with the god-like Abreu.

[Kalapse]

Here we go again with the Pods bashing.

 

I know it makes you Saber guys excited to point out what a worthless player he is, but if you haven't noticed, he is doing a pretty decent job of getting on base lately.

 

I suppose it would be the ultimate coup d etat for the WS Saber community to replace worthless Pods with the god-like Abreu.

I'm not a saber nut by any stretch of the imagination and I'd LOVE to replace Podsednik with Abreu, that would be a hell of an upgrade.

Edited July 17, 2006 by Kalapse

[fathom]

Here we go again with the Pods bashing.

 

I know it makes you Saber guys excited to point out what a worthless player he is, but if you haven't noticed, he is doing a pretty decent job of getting on base lately.

 

I suppose it would be the ultimate coup d etat for the WS Saber community to replace worthless Pods with the god-like Abreu.

 

No, it's actually the non-SABR guys that hate him. His defense is absolutely pathetic, and his fundamentals are laughable.

[Heads22]

Changed the title slightly.

[gojimthome]

Here we go again with the Pods bashing.

 

I know it makes you Saber guys excited to point out what a worthless player he is, but if you haven't noticed, he is doing a pretty decent job of getting on base lately.

 

I suppose it would be the ultimate coup d etat for the WS Saber community to replace worthless Pods with the god-like Abreu.

 

Not just the saber-community...

 

Abreu: .443 OBP

Pods: .353 OBP

 

We'll keep it simple. Getting on base 44% of the time > getting on base 35% of the time

 

It's not like Abreu is slow or anything. He steals bases, too. He gets caught less than Pods. He's better defensively, and he's certainly slugging a lot better. He's getting on base more than anyone not named Hafner or Mauer. It's hard to defend Podsednik with OBP against the guy who's 3rd best in all of baseball at reaching.

 

That being said, we lead the league in runs scored. We don't need Abreu, but I sure as hell wouldn't turn him away if someone shopped him to us at the right price. I'd take Abreu and I'd have Pods shipped off to Florida or wherever the same day.

[SABR Sox]

Here we go again with the Pods bashing.

 

I know it makes you Saber guys excited to point out what a worthless player he is, but if you haven't noticed, he is doing a pretty decent job of getting on base lately.

 

I suppose it would be the ultimate coup d etat for the WS Saber community to replace worthless Pods with the god-like Abreu.

 

Why is it that you must support such a crappy ballplayer.

 

Now not everyone will agree with me that "crappy" is the correct term but why do you support him so much?

 

Do you think his speed makes pitchers poop thier pants? Do you think his slap and run style is better than just hitting the XBH's?

 

Why do you love him so much? Why is he so great?

 

 

Please I'm dying to hear this.

[iamshack]

Not just the saber-community...

 

Abreu: .443 OBP

Pods: .353 OBP

 

We'll keep it simple. Getting on base 44% of the time > getting on base 35% of the time

 

It's not like Abreu is slow or anything. He steals bases, too. He gets caught less than Pods. He's better defensively, and he's certainly slugging a lot better. He's getting on base more than anyone not named Hafner or Mauer. It's hard to defend Podsednik with OBP against the guy who's 3rd best in all of baseball at reaching.

 

That being said, we lead the league in runs scored. We don't need Abreu, but I sure as hell wouldn't turn him away if someone shopped him to us at the right price. I'd take Abreu and I'd have Pods shipped off to Florida or wherever the same day.

 

I never for a second was arguing that Posednik is anywhere near the hitter Abreu is.

 

I was pointing to the fact that at every possible opportunity, someone has to rip the guy.

 

Guess what, folks? It was fashionable to explain why Scottie is worthless last year. This year, it's cliche.

 

But don't fret, I've heard Freddy Garcia is the new Pods.

[fathom]

I never for a second was arguing that Posednik is anywhere near the hitter Abreu is.

 

I was pointing to the fact that at every possible opportunity, someone has to rip the guy.

 

Guess what, folks? It was fashionable to explain why Scottie is worthless last year. This year, it's cliche.

 

But don't fret, I've heard Freddy Garcia is the new Pods.

 

Maybe it's because he really isn't valuable, and it's amazing how overrated he's been by some Sox fans in his year and a half with the team. He has swung the bat better the last two games, so hopefully he's start making things happen again.

[Gregory Pratt]

Maybe it's because he really isn't valuable, and it's amazing how overrated he's been by some Sox fans in his year and a half with the team. He has swung the bat better the last two games, so hopefully he's start making things happen again.

 

Over the last two games? He's been on quite a roll for awhile now.

[iamshack]

Why is it that you must support such a crappy ballplayer.

 

Now not everyone will agree with me that "crappy" is the correct term but why do you support him so much?

 

Do you think his speed makes pitchers poop thier pants? Do you think his slap and run style is better than just hitting the XBH's?

 

Why do you love him so much? Why is he so great?

Please I'm dying to hear this.

 

Why do Saber guys get so offended when someone doesn't buy their nuevo-statistic bs?

Why do you give a f*** who I choose to support?

Why must half the posters on this forum get off by torching Scott Podsednik? The guy makes $2 million dollars. He tries to get on base just like everyother guy on our team does. He tries to catch the ball just like every other guy does.

 

No one ever said he was Ricky Henderson. No one ever said he was Vince Coleman even.

 

But he is our leadoff hitter, and he does a few things pretty well for a leadoff hitter.

 

I'm not going to get into this argument about what makes an effective leadoff hitter or not, but our offense pretty much clicks (with the exception of today) when he is getting on, and he has been doing his part as of late. He also has been driving in runs pretty well as of late.

 

I just don't understand why some feel the need to constantly trash the guy. Is it because his wife is hot or what?

Edited July 17, 2006 by iamshack

[SABR Sox]

Why do Saber guys get so offended when someone doesn't buy their nuevo-statistic bs?

Why do you give a f*** who I choose to support?

Why must half the posters on this forum get off by torching Scott Podsednik? The guy makes $2 million dollars. He tries to get on base just like everyother guy on our team does. He tries to catch the ball just like every other guy does.

 

No one ever said he was Ricky Henderson. No one ever said he was Vince Coleman even.

 

But he is our leadoff hitter, and he does a few things pretty well for a leadoff hitter.

 

I'm not going to get into this argument about what makes an effective leadoff hitter or not, but our offense pretty much clicks (with the exception of today) when he is getting on, and he has been doing his part as of late. He also has been driving in runs pretty well as of late.

 

I just don't understand why some feel the need to constantly trash the guy. Is it because his wife is hot or what?

 

Becuase you continue to bash me for well bashing him.

 

I actually have some statistically based info behind it. He is a below average fielder, a below average hitter, and absolute s*** production from a corner Of'er.

 

I actually have evidence, metrics that you feel is invalid.

 

No one said he was ever Rickey Henderson, you are correct. But people like you say he's good, andpeople like me believe he isn't. Deal with it, you don't like it, don't respond. And when you do respond, give me some evidence as to why he's even *good.* Becuase he has speed? Becuase his OBP is .350? Becuase SLG% isn't important from a #1 batter?

 

In my mind, you need **MORE PRODUCTION** from a guy who's going to see the most PA's in a lineup, pure and simple.

 

And I constantly trash the guy becuase in my mind, he is trash. I can trash trash can't I. Many people seem to do so a lot.

 

Do us all a favor. Don't respond to my post and I won't respond to yours. Were opposites. Your the guy who listens to high school baseball caoches and thinks Pods speed makes pitchers s*** thier pants, and becuase of it, he's a good leadoff hitter.

 

I'm the type of guy who sees a piece of crap, who can't field, can't hit, and should by no means be seeing the most PA's in our lineup. Argument settled.

Edited July 17, 2006 by SABR Sox

[iamshack]

Becuase you continue to bash me for well bashing him.

 

I actually have some statistically based info behind it. He is a below average fielder, a below average hitter, and absolute s*** production from a corner Of'er.

 

I actually have evidence, metrics that you feel is invalid.

 

No one said he was ever Rickey Henderson, you are correct. But people like you say he's good, andpeople like me believe he isn't. Deal with it, you don't like it, don't respond. And when you do respond, give me some evidence as to why he's even *good.* Becuase he has speed? Becuase his OBP is .350? Becuase SLG% isn't important from a #1 batter?

 

In my mind, you need **MORE PRODUCTION** from a guy who's going to see the most PA's in a lineup, pure and simple.

 

And I constantly trash the guy becuase in my mind, he is trash. I can trash trash can't I. Many people seem to do so a lot.

 

Do us all a favor. Don't respond to my post and I won't respond to yours. Were opposites. Your the guy who listens to high school baseball caoches and thinks Pods speed makes pitchers s*** thier pants, and becuase of it, he's a good leadoff hitter.

 

I'm the type of guy who sees a piece of crap, who can't field, can't hit, and should by no means be seeing the most PA's in our lineup. Argument settled.

 

You are more than welcome to have your opinion, and believe whatever you want to believe.

 

What I take issue with is your insistance that everyone must adopt your opinion about him as a player when what evidence you bring to suggest he is a bad player is incomplete at best.

 

If you want to be disappointed in players on the current team, there are plenty of other targets who are more deserving, yet you bash our left-fielder at every possible juncture.

 

As for your comments on only myself and some high school coaches believing Scott has value because of what he does on the basepaths, I guess you include KW as an idiot as well because he obviously felt he was a valuable player.

 

But then again, Kenny doesn't know what VORP is, so you probably find him to be completely ignorant and incomptetent as well.

[SABR Sox]

You are more than welcome to have your opinion, and believe whatever you want to believe.

 

What I take issue with is your insistance that everyone must adopt your opinion about him as a player when what evidence you bring to suggest he is a bad player is incomplete at best.

 

If you want to be disappointed in players on the current team, there are plenty of other targets who are more deserving, yet you bash our left-fielder at every possible juncture.

 

As for your comments on only myself and some high school coaches believing Scott has value because of what he does on the basepaths, I guess you include KW as an idiot as well because he obviously felt he was a valuable player.

 

But then again, Kenny doesn't know what VORP is, so you probably find him to be completely ignorant and incomptetent as well.

 

KW has really made some good moves.

 

I can't blame him for bringing Pods in at all, becuase hey, it did free up salary for I believe the acqusition of the Gooch, JD or El Duque (I can't remember which one) so it wasn't all that bad, especially since Carlos Lee isn't exactly a monster either.

 

And its not like KW can just trade for a producitve LF just like that. Even the statistically based teams, like the Yanks, BoSox, and A's have weak positions too.

 

Epstien knows Alex Gonzalez isn't a great SS, Cashman knows Bernie Williams and Melky Cabrera aren't anything special, Beane knows his entire offense is struggling. And many of them do Aknowledge it in newspapers and such, and just deal with it.

 

It's when those weak players are called strong I get argumentative.

Edited July 17, 2006 by SABR Sox

[iamshack]

KW has really made some good moves.

 

I can't blame him for bringing Pods in at all, becuase hey, it did free up salary for I believe the acqusition of the Gooch, JD or El Duque (I can't remember which one) so it wasn't all that bad, especially since Carlos Lee isn't exactly a monster either.

 

And its not like KW can just trade for a producitve LF just like that. Even the statistically based teams, like the Yanks, BoSox, and A's have weak positions too.

 

Epstien knows Alex Gonzalez isn't a great SS, Cashman knows Bernie Williams and Melky Cabrera aren't anything special, Beane knows his entire offense is struggling. And many of them do Aknowledge it in newspapers and such, and just deal with it.

 

It's when those weak players are called strong I get argumentative.

 

Its when these new methods of player evaluation are presumed to be flawless or even fundamentally correct in the first place when I get argumentative.

[SABR Sox]

Its when these new methods of player evaluation are presumed to be flawless or even fundamentally correct in the first place when I get argumentative.

 

Haha, nobody said thier flawless. Nothing in baseball, whether it be metrics or not, is perfect. NEVER has baseball itself been perfect or flawless.

 

But stats and Sabermetrics for that matter are certianly more Objective than Subjective over most player evaluation.

[Gregory Pratt]

I wonder how Pete Rose would look judged purely on Sabermetrics.

[SABR Sox]

I wonder how Pete Rose would look judged purely on Sabermetrics.

 

Still a should be HOF'er.

[Gregory Pratt]

Still a should be HOF'er.

 

Well, good.

 

And, might I ask, do you have some sort of personal relation to the OJ Simpson murder, or were you so deeply bothered by his getting-away-with-murder as to use this as a way to protest in some way or another?

[SABR Sox]

Well, good.

 

And, might I ask, do you have some sort of personal relation to the OJ Simpson murder, or were you so deeply bothered by his getting-away-with-murder as to use this as a way to protest in some way or another?

 

Haha, its nothing like that.

 

Back in the day I did a re-search project in school on the case, and my teacher actually wore a T-Shirt with my avatar on it. He was a huge anti-O.J. guy. it was pretty funny, becuase he got fined for wearing it.

 

But O.j. was my favorite running back too, whether he got away with it or not.

[VAfan]

Living in the Philly area I see a lot of Phillies games since it's the local team I get, we do not want anything to do with Abreu. The media and philly fans here have been crying for Abreu to lead off for years now and refuses because he wants his numbers. His gold glove he got last year is considered a joke in the Philly area because he's horrible in the OF, and Rowand's catch has only put more of a light on his poor defense. So we do not want Abreu at all.

 

I've been on and off the Abreu wagon for the last year. I like Abreu's stats -- to a point -- but I hear your argument about Abreu's attitude. However, the one guy I think could get him excited to play again is Ozzie Guillen, his Venezuelan countryman. I think he'd be a very motivated guy under Ozzie.

 

Is Abreu worth anything near his contract? No. And that's why I believe he'd come pretty cheap in the trade market. The Phillies also know they can't get much for him because he has a no-trade contract. So if they could just dump his salary -- ala Mike Lowell -- I don't think it would take much to get him. Any team willing to take on his $16 million next year can have him, I think, if Abreu is willing to go.

 

Why should the Sox do this kind of a deal? First and foremost, it puts Brandon McCarthy into the rotation. The Sox intend to do this next year anyway. Why not now when they have underperforming starters right and left? Someone needs to step up and help Contreras or the Yankees are going to pass us in the blink of an eye. Maybe Vazquez can pitch better, and maybe he can't. Since he probably has more trade value than Garcia, I'd pick Javy between the two of them.

 

Second, it greatly strengthens the bullpen. With Jenks, Gordon, Cotts, Thornton, and Riske, the Sox would have a deep, reliable pen. Our starters would know they really only have to get through 6 innings with the lead. Maybe Hermanson could come back and be the 6th guy as gravy. If not, I'm willing to let Tracey fill that last role.

 

Third, it would take what is a very good offense to yet another level. If Anderson continues to improve and Uribe goes on another tear, there would be no weak links in our lineup, against lefties or righties.

 

Fourth, Abreu in left would improve our outfield defense. I don't think Abreu is a defensive stud. But Pods' defense has slipped considerably. And we'd have 3 fantastic arms out there.

 

Fifth, Ozuna would return to backing up infield positions, where he belongs. Iguchi can't hit lefties this year, but Ozuna kills them. That's where Ozuna should substitute most of the time.

 

Sixth, this trade would keep Abreu from going to the Tigers, where he could really help them. Given their run, Abreu's contract probably doesn't scare them. And they have the young arms to deal. I'm sure KW is watching this carefully.

 

This deal would help the Sox stay in the running for the World Series this year and next, and the only cost is players (other than any minor leaguers included) who won't be on our team much beyond that anyway.

[iamshack]

Haha, nobody said thier flawless. Nothing in baseball, whether it be metrics or not, is perfect. NEVER has baseball itself been perfect or flawless.

 

But stats and Sabermetrics for that matter are certianly more Objective than Subjective over most player evaluation.

 

Not really.

 

Sabermetrics can be incredibly subjective in that they choose which player qualities are important and which are not. Unfortunately, everything that they cannot accurately quantify seems to be deemed as less important than that which they can.

 

It took the White Sox winning the World Series last season for them to realize how important elite defense can actually be, despite the fact that they cannot accurately measure what elite defense is.

[SABR Sox]

Not really.

 

Sabermetrics can be incredibly subjective in that they choose which player qualities are important and which are not. Unfortunately, everything that they cannot accurately quantify seems to be deemed as less important than that which they can.

 

It took the White Sox winning the World Series last season for them to realize how important elite defense can actually be, despite the fact that they cannot accurately measure what elite defense is.

 

Not true.

 

The qualities chosen are completely linear to run scoring and run prevention.

[Gregory Pratt]

Haha, its nothing like that.

 

Back in the day I did a re-search project in school on the case, and my teacher actually wore a T-Shirt with my avatar on it. He was a huge anti-O.J. guy. it was pretty funny, becuase he got fined for wearing it.

 

But O.j. was my favorite running back too, whether he got away with it or not.

 

You're in Chicago, and you don't absolutely adore Walter Payton?!

Shame on you!