Duaner Sanchez

[witesoxfan]

Pelfrey could almost be better than Garcia right now anyway, the way he is dominating AA.

 

Was never going to happen, and Minaya would be insane to give up his best pitching prospect right now.

 

If we ask for Phillip Humber instead though.............

 

Hell, I almost wanna just say screw Humber and get Sanchez in here.

 

I have a question for minor league gurus...who else do the Mets have prospect wise that could interest the Sox some? They obviously have Pelfrey, Milledge, Humber, and Ring if you want to count him(and I don't)...but I am clueless otherwise.

[iamshack]

Jeesh, I am not stupid enough to claim that Freddy is pitching well right now.

But how many big games did the guy win for us late last year?

You'd think he kicked all of your mothers the way this thread is going...

[Flash Tizzle]

Pelfrey could almost be better than Garcia right now anyway, the way he is dominating AA.

 

Was never going to happen, and Minaya would be insane to give up his best pitching prospect right now.

 

If we ask for Phillip Humber instead though.............

First, how would Pelfrey rate in comparison to Lumsden and Broadway?

 

Second, Minaya traded Kazmir before for Zambrano and we're going to assume he'll never do anything similar again? Garcia is far more deserving of such a package (atleast compared to Victor), and considering their rotation, who the hell are they to object? If Minaya stays pat, it sucks Tampa ruined it for everyone else. I suppose Sabean will never make any trade involving a decent pitching prospect since he was burned with Liriano. Again, seemingly someone ruined it for the entire league.

 

I just want us to rape another team. Is it that difficult for someone just to abide by my wishes?

[iamshack]

First, how would Pelfrey rate in comparison to Lumsden and Broadway?

 

Second, Minaya traded Kazmir before for Zambrano and we're going to assume he'll never do anything similar again? Garcia is far more deserving of such a package (atleast compared to Victor), and considering their rotation, who the hell are they to object? If Minaya stays pat, it sucks Tampa ruined it for everyone else. I suppose Sabean will never make any trade involving a decent pitching prospect since he was burned with Liriano. Again, seemingly someone ruined it for the entire league.

 

I just want us to rape another team. Is it that difficult for someone just to abide by my wishes?

 

Minyana didn't make the Kazmir trade, Jim Duquette did.

 

Minyana did trade Bart Colon for Brandon Phillips, Grady Sizemore, and Cliff Lee though.

 

He has a few more critics watching what he does now though than when he was in Montreal.

[GoodAsGould]

He wasnt the one that did the Kazmir trade......

[Flash Tizzle]

He wasnt the one that did the Kazmir trade......

Damn, I've been under the impression for over a year he was solely responsible. I recalled ESPN mentioning his name in connection with the move and didn't think otherwise.

[Chisoxfn]

Pelfrey >>> Lumsden >>>> Broadway

 

And I think we all know that I like Lummy quite a bit as a prospect.

 

The Kazmir deal was made in July of 04, Minaya was hired after the 04 season came to an end.

[Flash Tizzle]

Pelfrey >>> Lumsden >>>> Broadway

 

And I think we all know that I like Lummy quite a bit as a prospect.

Noticed he was a relatively high draft pick-- 9th overall in 2005. No use beginning my routine of suggesting, "where's our Pelfrey?"

 

From browsing looking through their system, and noticing what they've recently produced, it appears Mets have done FAR better then we have at producing major league talent. Reading an article on Baseball Prospectus it mentions several interesting points I wish Williams would adopt:

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/featu...op10s/mets.html

 

Minaya was once the Mets’ international scouting director, and seems intent on making his club the dominant force in signing Latin American talent. New York saw the Martinez and Guerra signings as a way to make up for the loss of their second- and third-round picks in the 2005 draft as free-agent compensation.

 

Why haven't we shown this type of dedication to producing Latin American talent? Yeah, a measly baseball school in Venezuela, that's about it. I wish an article could be written in which someone could infer Williams as "intent on making his club a dominant force" concerning Latin prospects. Whore our World Championship and Guillen's popularity for more than a baseball school.

 

Minaya also has made an imprint on the scouting department, restructuring it twice since becoming GM. After the 2005 season, 11 scouts were fired or demoted. Russ Bove, who had replaced Jack Bowen as director of amateur scouting a year ago, was reassigned as a major league scout. Assistant scouting director Rudy Terrasas was promoted to replace Bove.

Mets officials were miffed they were unable to reach down into its system to promote major league players when injuries hit.

 

There should be a large collection of Latin American scouts shown a pink slip after the pitiful results they've shown over the past decade. No one can even debate me on this issue. It should improve.

Edited July 17, 2006 by Flash Tizzle

[Dick Allen]

Noticed he was a relatively high draft pick-- 9th overall in 2005. No use beginning my routine of suggesting, "where's our Pelfrey?"

 

From browsing looking through their system, and noticing what they've recently produced, it appears Mets have done FAR better then we have at producing major league talent. Reading an article on Baseball Prospectus it mentions several interesting points I wish Williams would adopt:

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/featu...op10s/mets.html

Why haven't we shown this type of dedication to producing Latin American talent? Yeah, a measly baseball school in Venezuela, that's about it. I wish an article could be written in which someone could infer Williams as "intent on making his club a dominant force" concerning Latin prospects. Whore our World Championship and Guillen's popularity for more than a baseball school.

There should be a large collection of Latin American scouts shown a pink slip after the pitiful results they've shown over the past decade. No one can even debate me on this issue. It should improve.

The Sox recently opened an academy in Venezuela. Hopefully it will pay off. I think White Sox amatuer scouts have been lacking the past several years.

[VAfan]

Jeesh, I am not stupid enough to claim that Freddy is pitching well right now.

But how many big games did the guy win for us late last year?

You'd think he kicked all of your mothers the way this thread is going...

 

I agree with this. As I recall, Freddy looked washed up one year for Seattle too, and bounced back pretty damn well. He's not old.

 

So count me out for trading a guy who will probably win another 100 games in his career for a middle reliever and a prospect. The Sox have usually been the ones trading the "can't miss" guys for valuable players. I'm not ready to be on the other end of those kinds of deals -- not when we're trying to win another World Series.

[witesoxfan]

As I recall, Freddy looked washed up one year for Seattle too

 

And then he got traded to Chicago

[GoodAsGould]

And then he got traded to Chicago

 

No he was having a really good year if I remember in Seattle that season...

[southsideirish71]

I agree with this. As I recall, Freddy looked washed up one year for Seattle too, and bounced back pretty damn well. He's not old.

 

So count me out for trading a guy who will probably win another 100 games in his career for a middle reliever and a prospect. The Sox have usually been the ones trading the "can't miss" guys for valuable players. I'm not ready to be on the other end of those kinds of deals -- not when we're trying to win another World Series.

 

Freddy wasnt throwing in the 80s in Seattle. He was a pitcher who would pitch well at Safeco and his numbers away werent the same.

[iamshack]

No he was having a really good year if I remember in Seattle that season...

 

He had a crap year in 03' and a mediocre one in 02'. Miraculously, he was fantastic in 04', his contract year, and the year the White Sox acquired him.

 

Freddy has a problem focusing, not with talent.

[Guest JimH]

I'm not ready to be on the other end of those kinds of deals -- not when we're trying to win another World Series.

 

Yeah right.

 

What about your every other day threads suggesting trading Vazquez?

 

"I would speak my thoughts

 

About all this haiku crap

 

But to each his own"

 

[witesoxfan]

He had a crap year in 03' and a mediocre one in 02'. Miraculously, he was fantastic in 04', his contract year, and the year the White Sox acquired him.

 

Freddy has a problem focusing, not with talent.

 

took the words out of my mouth

[dasox24]

I will agree with Flash in that our scouting department does seem to suck pretty bad, at least the upper level heads (Shaeffer). IIRC, when Wilder was here as director of scouting, we had our good drafts (Anderson, Sweeney, Fields), but in the years before that and the 2005/2006 drafts, Schaefer has been in charge, and has not done a very good job drafting, especially high picks, which is where most All-Stars come from, though obviously you find a few in lower rounds (i.e. Beurhle, McCarthy, Pujols -- Best player in all of baseball by far). It's not a good idea to depend on diamonds in the rough, though. It'll bite you in the ass.

[DBAHO]

The N.Y Post is reporting Livan Hernandez could probably be had for 2 mid level prospects. Really isn't much difference b/w him and Garcia with the way they are both pitching, so you would think considering what KW would probably ask for, if Minaya's going to make a move, it would probably be for Livan.

[Guest JimH]

I will agree with Flash in that our scouting department does seem to suck pretty bad, at least the upper level heads (Shaeffer). IIRC, when Wilder was here as director of scouting, we had our good drafts (Anderson, Sweeney, Fields), but in the years before that and the 2005/2006 drafts, Schaefer has been in charge, and has not done a very good job drafting, especially high picks, which is where most All-Stars come from, though obviously you find a few in lower rounds (i.e. Beurhle, McCarthy, Pujols -- Best player in all of baseball by far). It's not a good idea to depend on diamonds in the rough, though. It'll bite you in the ass.

 

Well ... this is not entirely accurate. Duane Shafer has has been in charge of the draft for years and years. Doug Laumann was the chief scout who "ran" the draft for a few years but he still reported to Shafer. Then Laumann was reassigned due to an internal conflict, I'm not sure if he's still with the team or not. If he is it's in a low profile scouting role.

 

Dave Wilder is in charge of player development ... basically the minor leagues. He does some scouting but not much at the amateur level, he does some minor league scouting but only because he sees so many minor league games.

[DBAHO]

I don't think you can really complain about our drafting over the past few seasons. As other posters showed, in the earlier rounds we've hit fairly well on the likes of BA, Sweeney, Fields, Broadway etc. who all seem to be doing fairly well, or who project well for the future.

 

As Flash has said many a time, yes our Latin American Scouting ain't great. But to put more money into that, the Sox would probably have to take that away from the payroll, and I for one don't want that to happen.

 

We seem to have a fairly good minor league system, we'd be in the top half of teams I'd say, and we're in a lot better position that other contenders such as the Cardinals.

[Flash Tizzle]

I don't think you can really complain about our drafting over the past few seasons. As other posters showed, in the earlier rounds we've hit fairly well on the likes of BA, Sweeney, Fields, Broadway etc. who all seem to be doing fairly well, or who project well for the future.

The Anderson of spectacular defense -- and a delicious .200 average? Granted, he's done well lately; but I'm not willing to cite his name as proof we've drafted well. Even departed names such as Young, Gonzalez, Haigwood have yet to prove themselves. I'm under the impression the success of a draft is determined in the majors, not by minor league numbers.

 

Forgive me if I'm less than ethusiastic about the long term projections of the other names mentioned.

 

As Flash has said many a time, yes our Latin American Scouting ain't great. But to put more money into that, the Sox would probably have to take that away from the payroll, and I for one don't want that to happen.

And I'll continue to complain until it improves. Honestly, is removing 5 million from next years payroll (which will exceed 100 million, easily) really hurt our ballclub? It's going to go use if the money is responsible for signing legitimate talent, which in turn makes expensive veterans expendable in several years. Thus, it may hinder our immediate plans but assist in future seasons. There's a definite benefit to paying now in order to save later.

 

We seem to have a fairly good minor league system, we'd be in the top half of teams I'd say, and we're in a lot better position that other contenders such as the Cardinals.

 

I don't understand the complacency some have concerning this issue. It always seems people shrug their shoulders and reply, "Guess you hate World Championships." You're content with being middle of the pack? I just don't like the thought of, "well, we're not good -- but either are the Cardinals." Reminds me several seasons ago, when Williams made little impact on the offseason market and the general consensus was, "We didn't make any moves..........but either did Minneosta!"

 

We expect success from our major league ballclub, and when it isn't there -- as it hasn't been in past seasons -- we've attempted to model ourselves after successful organizations. Why can't we hold the same reserve for our farm system? Why can't we look at various teams and think about mimmicking their methods with player development, just as we've done on the field?

 

Hey, say it's unrealistic to have a World Series contender AND a producing farm system, but I believe there's much room for improvement. It's better to attempt such a feat than sit around and accept mediocrity.

[Guest JimH]

The Anderson of spectacular defense -- and a delicious .200 average? Granted, he's done well lately; but I'm not willing to cite his name as proof we've drafted well. Even departed names such as Young, Gonzalez, Haigwood have yet to prove themselves. I'm under the impression the success of a draft is determined in the majors, not by minor league numbers.

 

Forgive me if I'm less than ethusiastic about the long term projections of the other names mentioned.

And I'll continue to complain until it improves. Honestly, is removing 5 million from next years payroll (which will exceed 100 million, easily) really hurt our ballclub? It's going to go use if the money is responsible for signing legitimate talent, which in turn makes expensive veterans expendable in several years. Thus, it may hinder our immediate plans but assist in future seasons. There's a definite benefit to paying now in order to save later.

I don't understand the complacency some have concerning this issue. It always seems people shrug their shoulders and reply, "Guess you hate World Championships." You're content with being middle of the pack? I just don't like the thought of, "well, we're not good -- but either are the Cardinals." Reminds me several seasons ago, when Williams made little impact on the offseason market and the general consensus was, "We didn't make any moves..........but either did Minneosta!"

 

We expect success from our major league ballclub, and when it isn't there -- as it hasn't been in past seasons -- we've attempted to model ourselves after successful organizations. Why can't we hold the same reserve for our farm system? Why can't we look at various teams and think about mimmicking their methods with player development, just as we've done on the field?

 

Hey, say it's unrealistic to have a World Series contender AND a producing farm system, but I believe there's much room for improvement. It's better to attempt such a feat than sit around and accept mediocrity.

 

What specifically would you recommend they do to improve? Quantifiable stuff, not just "get better at".

 

I know a bit about how the White Sox approach things, so I'd like to hear your specific suggestions Flash.

[Guest JimH]

By the way, let me start with one area I think they can do a better job.

 

I would like to see them more aggressively target guys in the draft who drop due to signability concerns, and then really go after them and get them signed.

 

They have started to do this, at least in terms of targeting, by drafting Danks last year and the pitcher from Iliana Christian this year in the 20th round.

 

The obvious problem is, it throws bonus structures out of whack and the baseball fraternity frowns on that, but I say target these guys and get it done. If you like a guy enough to draft him, get it taken care of. Several times in the last few years I've heard that "negotiations went down to the wire, but (name) decided to go the 4-yr. college route".

 

A good example is this lefthander they drafted a few years ago, Donald Veal. They didn't sign him and he's becoming a very good prospect for the Cubs. That's frustrating to me, because obviously your scouts saw something good, it looks like the kid is turning out good, but the White Sox can't seem to get him signed.

 

Now I'm sure this happens to every team but personally I do think there's some room for improvement.

[Flash Tizzle]

What specifically would you recommend they do to improve? Quantifiable stuff, not just "get better at".

 

I know a bit about how the White Sox approach things, so I'd like to hear your specific suggestions Flash.

I'll have to make this quick:

 

1. Improve resources in Latin America. If people are there, as you insist, fire them and find replacements. They haven't done enough to justify the security of their jobs.

 

2. In early rounds, ignore "safe" picks. I don't care about a "repeatable delivery," or whether a particular player is "the best athlete available," select a player based upon potential. It's essentially why Broadway was selected over Garza and Carrillo several seasons ago. We'd rather select someone based upon their (perceived) promixity to the majors than whether or not they have legitimate talent.

 

3. If a particular player drops because of signability issues, don't ignore them. This childish squabble with Boras needs to end as well. If, in the future, a player such as Greg Hansen drops to our position simply pay for it.

 

And if numbers 1 and 3 conflict because of financial concerns, I'll consider it progression. Atleast it would show we're aggressive in persuing talent.

Edited July 18, 2006 by Flash Tizzle

[Guest JimH]

To further add to this ...

 

I also think you can qualify a team's farm system as "successful" in certain instances when you are able to get an established major league player who contributes in exchange for someone in your system.

 

That guy they traded for Geoff Blum last year, the rinky dink lefthander ... that was a guy they basically picked up off the scrap heap and it got them Blum. Even if Blum hadn't hit the big homer, he at least contributed.

 

To me the farm system is a balancing act. You have to keep/develop your own players for economic reasons but you also have to use some for trade bait.

 

The White Sox have long held the philosophy of drafting lots of pitchers, the rationale being everyone wants pitching. They also have a tendancy to not roll the dice, they look for "safe" players in the first round vs. potential impact players. That philosophy can be argued 8 ways from Sunday. They also like to draft a lot of lefthanded pitching, which I think is a good idea because lefthanded pitching is always an especially desireable commodity.

 

A sore spot for me in the past was their lack of involvement with Pacific Rim players. Now in the last few years they've signed two very useful players in Takatsu and Iguchi. Both were excellent signings, they contributed. I think that may have laid the groundwork for more players coming to Chicago but they should've done that sooner.