Duaner Sanchez

[Flash Tizzle]

By the way, let me start with one area I think they can do a better job.

 

I would like to see them more aggressively target guys in the draft who drop due to signability concerns, and then really go after them and get them signed.

Damn, if my computer didn't freeze I would have been able to take credit for suggesting this first.

[Guest JimH]

I'll have to make this quick:

 

1. Improve resources in Latin America. If people are there, as you insist, fire them and find replacements. They haven't done enough to justify the security of their jobs.

 

2. In early rounds, ignore "safe" picks. I don't care about a "repeatable delivery," or whether a particular player is "the best athlete available," select a player based upon potential. It's essentially why Broadway was selected over Garza and Carrillo several seasons ago. We'd rather select someone based upon their (perceived) promixity to the majors than whether or not they have legitimate talent.

 

3. If a particular player drops because of signability issues, don't ignore them. This childish squabble with Boras needs to end as well. If, in the future, a player such as Greg Hansen drops to our position simply pay for it.

 

And if numbers 1 and 3 conflict, I'll consider it progression.

 

Ok, fair enough. We are basically on the same page with #'s 2 and 3. They actually targeted Broadway, they were honed in on him for quite a while. However Flash, by your definition of measuring success via major league contributions, it's unfair of you to criticize that pick and passing up Garza and Carillo. We haven't seen any of the three in the majors yet. Garza is doing extremely well in AA, Broadway is doing, what, above average in AA, and Carillo has an elbow problem. So to me it's only fair to wait that scenario out.

 

The Boras factor, I agree on. I think Boras is a turd but they can't continue to ignore his stable. I do believe they've made some progress by basically assigning Dennis Gilbert to deal with the Boras group. Maybe that will help matters, maybe not.

 

Latin America ... some of that I agree on, some I don't. They actually sign just as much Latin American talent as most of these other clubs. They have a Dominican League team. Personally I think minor league instruction needs examination. Why do some of these guys not develop? There was all kinds of buzz on this Salvador Sanchez kid and he's really struggling the last time I checked. Why are these kids not developing? I think that's a very fair question.

 

The part I've never agreed with you on is that they don't have a presence in the Latin American countries. That's just incorrect ... they do. The White Sox media guide confirms it.

 

As for the efficiency of that presence, it can be debated the same way any other scout's performance can be debated. I do think there's been a none-too-subtle shift in the last three years ... away from "athletes" and gravitating towards "baseball players". To me that is Guillen's influence. Now what I'd like to see is the Chicago White Sox being the destination of choice for Venezuelan talent. To date, it hasn't been. And I think that's a fair criticism. By the way, there has been some minor turnover with the scouting staff but I cannot argue your viewpoint that maybe too much loyalty is a bad thing.

 

It would be one thing if the Sox were skimping on scouting/drafting/player development expenditures but they haven't been ... if BA is to be believed the White Sox have always been in the upper echelon of expenditures in all these areas ... sometimes to the detriment of major league payroll.

 

I do feel they need to be more aggressive with international talent, i.e. not subject to the MLB draft. What would be interesting to see is how much bang for the buck these other teams have gotten. Cubs just signed a highly thought of pitching prospect from Venezuela for an $800K bonus, it will be interesting to follow his career ... Suarez I think his name is.

 

That is why I have always wanted this site ... Jason, Alex, whomever ... to really push for an interview or chat with the people in the White Sox organization who can tell us all the details. Whether that is Shafer, or Wilder, or whoever it is ... let's get these questions answered. Flash, you know some of the story, I know some of the story, others here do as well but let's face it, none of us know exactly what goes on.

 

So my suggestion is, let's find out. We are a prominent White Sox site here, let's use our leverage to get some interviews with management types.

[Chisoxfn]

By the way, let me start with one area I think they can do a better job.

 

I would like to see them more aggressively target guys in the draft who drop due to signability concerns, and then really go after them and get them signed.

 

They have started to do this, at least in terms of targeting, by drafting Danks last year and the pitcher from Iliana Christian this year in the 20th round.

 

The obvious problem is, it throws bonus structures out of whack and the baseball fraternity frowns on that, but I say target these guys and get it done. If you like a guy enough to draft him, get it taken care of. Several times in the last few years I've heard that "negotiations went down to the wire, but (name) decided to go the 4-yr. college route".

 

A good example is this lefthander they drafted a few years ago, Donald Veal. They didn't sign him and he's becoming a very good prospect for the Cubs. That's frustrating to me, because obviously your scouts saw something good, it looks like the kid is turning out good, but the White Sox can't seem to get him signed.

 

Now I'm sure this happens to every team but personally I do think there's some room for improvement.

Wes Hodges is another name. And I think your dead on and I think its even more imortant to do so since the club has been in a position where they haven't had top picks so you got to make sure you spend some money on other guys and maybe get a few late round steals (guys that slid due for signability reasons).

 

Another thing I'd like to see is the team look a bit more at guys arms. They go the safe route a lot, and I dno't have a problem with that, but I'd also like to see some guys with high ceiling arms. Of course thats easier said than done since I realize those type of arms don't grow on trees and usually they are high level picks.

[Rowand44]

Another thing I'd like to see is the team look a bit more at guys arms. They go the safe route a lot, and I dno't have a problem with that, but I'd also like to see some guys with high ceiling arms. Of course thats easier said than done since I realize those type of arms don't grow on trees and usually they are high level picks.

I think as of late, the Sox have drafted some guys who are safer picks because they'll probably get through the minors quickly and they're value will be higher, quicker. With the way Kenny does things, I do believe that is one reason they go with the "safe" pick. Maybe I'm completely off, but it does seem to make a bit of sense.

Edited July 19, 2006 by Rowand44

[Chisoxfn]

Great posts Jim. I know I was working something with Wilder but every time we tried to set something up it seemed to be a bad time for him. He was real busy though cause I think it was right around the trade deadline and everytime I called him he was in another city.

 

I'll see what I can do but I definately think you guys really summed up the stuff and it would be very interesting to hear what Sox management would say when it comes to stuff like that.

 

I think as of late, the Sox have drafted some guys who are safer picks because they'll probably get through the minors quickly and they're value will be higher, quicker. With the way Kenny does things, I do believe that is one reason they go with the "safe" pick. Maybe I'm completely off, but it does seem to make a bit of sense.

I agree completely with that. The safer picks are more likely to have trade value sooner and right now Kenny is the type of guy that swings his talent for other talent (usually current major league players) but he also isn't hesitant to use his chips to get him a young guy he likes thats fallen out of love in another organization (Juan Uribe, Matt Thornton).

[dasox24]

Well ... this is not entirely accurate. Duane Shafer has has been in charge of the draft for years and years. Doug Laumann was the chief scout who "ran" the draft for a few years but he still reported to Shafer. Then Laumann was reassigned due to an internal conflict, I'm not sure if he's still with the team or not. If he is it's in a low profile scouting role.

 

Dave Wilder is in charge of player development ... basically the minor leagues. He does some scouting but not much at the amateur level, he does some minor league scouting but only because he sees so many minor league games.

Ah, okay. Well, shoot, I guess I got Wilder and Laumann mixed up. Thanks for the correction!

[DBAHO]

I think as of late, the Sox have drafted some guys who are safer picks because they'll probably get through the minors quickly and they're value will be higher, quicker. With the way Kenny does things, I do believe that is one reason they go with the "safe" pick. Maybe I'm completely off, but it does seem to make a bit of sense.

And this is in response to Flash's post about Anderson and his .200 stat line as well;

 

Have a look at the guys who were drafted before BA;

Delmon Young

Rickie Weeks

Kyle Sleeth

Tim Stauffer

Chris Lubanski

Ryan Harvey

Nick Markakis

Paul Maholm

John Danks

Ian Stewart

Michael Aubrey

Lastings Milledge

Aaron Hill

Ryan Wagner

 

Only 3 of those guys Weeks, Markakis and Maholm are currently in the major leagues along with BA. Someone like Ryan Harvey is majorly struggling down in A ball. BA's shown lately he does have what it takes to hit at this level, and the Torii Hunter comparisons are pretty spot on at this stage.

 

I don't think you can really argue majorly about the Sox's drafting when the guys they have picked in the past few years have made it to the majors, or are doing very well in AA or AAA. At least you know they are going to make it instead of being a high risk - high reward type of draft pick that may never make it out of the major leagues.

[GoodAsGould]

And this is in response to Flash's post about Anderson and his .200 stat line as well;

 

Have a look at the guys who were drafted before BA;

Delmon Young

Rickie Weeks

Kyle Sleeth

Tim Stauffer

Chris Lubanski

Ryan Harvey

Nick Markakis

Paul Maholm

John Danks

Ian Stewart

Michael Aubrey

Lastings Milledge

Aaron Hill

Ryan Wagner

 

Only 3 of those guys Weeks, Markakis and Maholm are currently in the major leagues along with BA. Someone like Ryan Harvey is majorly struggling down in A ball. BA's shown lately he does have what it takes to hit at this level, and the Torii Hunter comparisons are pretty spot on at this stage.

 

I don't think you can really argue majorly about the Sox's drafting when the guys they have picked in the past few years have made it to the majors, or are doing very well in AA or AAA. At least you know they are going to make it instead of being a high risk - high reward type of draft pick that may never make it out of the major leagues.

 

Isnt Aaron Hill playing for Toronto? Also Milledge, Stewart, Danks, and Young are all pretty big time prospects who should be all-stars. Not as sure on Stewart at the other 3.

 

On a side note.. Markakis was that RF for the Orioles that we saw not 2 long ago correct? If so he is very very impressive looking.

[Rowand44]

And this is in response to Flash's post about Anderson and his .200 stat line as well;

 

Have a look at the guys who were drafted before BA;

Delmon Young

Rickie Weeks

Kyle Sleeth

Tim Stauffer

Chris Lubanski

Ryan Harvey

Nick Markakis

Paul Maholm

John Danks

Ian Stewart

Michael Aubrey

Lastings Milledge

Aaron Hill

Ryan Wagner

 

Only 3 of those guys Weeks, Markakis and Maholm are currently in the major leagues along with BA. Someone like Ryan Harvey is majorly struggling down in A ball. BA's shown lately he does have what it takes to hit at this level, and the Torii Hunter comparisons are pretty spot on at this stage.

 

I don't think you can really argue majorly about the Sox's drafting when the guys they have picked in the past few years have made it to the majors, or are doing very well in AA or AAA. At least you know they are going to make it instead of being a high risk - high reward type of draft pick that may never make it out of the major leagues.

 

To me it doesn't even matter that Anderson is batting .200. He's made a ton of strides this year and has really improved. I had my doubts about Anderson because of the little hitch he has in his swing but I'm very confident now that he will be a solid major league player.

[CySox]

I don't care, give up Garcia/Vazquez and Montero for him, IMO, he'd be perfect for this team. Imagine our bullpen with him...

 

Jenks, CP

Cotts, SU

Sanchez, SU

Thornton, MRP

Riske, MRP

Tracey, LRP

 

We would have the best young bullpen, plus once it hits the 7th inning, you can say good night. That is a perfect balance of power pitching, and finese pitching. You got Jenks, Sanchez, and Thornton throwing it up there 96+, you got Tracy throwing it up there at 95, and we got Cotts and Riske throwing in the high 80's to low 90's.

 

Oh well, it's just a pipe dream.

[witesoxfan]

I don't care, give up Garcia/Vazquez and Montero for him, IMO, he'd be perfect for this team. Imagine our bullpen with him...

 

Jenks, CP

Cotts, SU

Sanchez, SU

Thornton, MRP

Riske, MRP

Tracey, LRP

 

We would have the best young bullpen, plus once it hits the 7th inning, you can say good night. That is a perfect balance of power pitching, and finese pitching. You got Jenks, Sanchez, and Thornton throwing it up there 96+, you got Tracy throwing it up there at 95, and we got Cotts and Riske throwing in the high 80's to low 90's.

 

Oh well, it's just a pipe dream.

 

Minaya turned down Garcia for Sanchez, and throwing in a soon to be 29-year old career minor leaguer who put up an ERA of 5.46 LAST year in AA is not going to change his mind.

 

Sanchez isn't going to go anywhere, unless Minaya gets crazy desperate. It's not like the Mets are out of the playoff race.

[CySox]

Minaya turned down Garcia for Sanchez, and throwing in a soon to be 29-year old career minor leaguer who put up an ERA of 5.46 LAST year in AA is not going to change his mind.

 

Sanchez isn't going to go anywhere, unless Minaya gets crazy desperate. It's not like the Mets are out of the playoff race.

That was Garcia for Sanchez and Pelfrey, their young prospect, that they turned down. Not Garcia for Sanchez.

 

also, when you trade Scott Kazmir for Victor Zambrano, you are officially and idiot in my book.

[Rowand44]

also, when you trade Scott Kazmir for Victor Zambrano, you are officially and idiot in my book.

Too bad that wasn't Minaya.

Edited July 24, 2006 by Rowand44

[CySox]

Too bad that wasn't Minaya.

I don't keep track of when other teams gm's come and go. sorry.

Edited July 24, 2006 by CySox

[Rowand44]

I don't keep track of when other teams gm's come and go. sorry.

Well then you probably shouldn't declare someone an idiot with out knowing all the details, no?

[CySox]

Well then you probably shouldn't declare someone an idiot with out knowing all the details, no?

I thought it was. It was my mistake.

[DBAHO]

Heilman and Humber peoples. That's the most realistic deal I've heard on this board for the past week, and I'd love to get it done especially for Garcia.

 

Hopefully Minaya takes the bait.

[iamshack]

Heilman and Humber peoples. That's the most realistic deal I've heard on this board for the past week, and I'd love to get it done especially for Garcia.

 

Hopefully Minaya takes the bait.

 

Friday night is a big start for Freddy Garcia. If he puts up another solid outing as he did Saturday night, you might see Omar get a little trigger happy on Saturday morning and make a deal. He doesn't lose much from the big league club by dealing Heilman (since he will get Garcia back), and Humber is the prospect that gets it done on Kenny's end.

[beck72]

Heilman and Humber peoples. That's the most realistic deal I've heard on this board for the past week, and I'd love to get it done especially for Garcia.

 

Hopefully Minaya takes the bait.

 

Sanchez and a lesser prospect than Humber would be decent as well. Or if NY included Humber, a guy like Riske could go. Heilman IMO is another Riske--decent but not lights out. The Mets could include Sanchez as Pelfrey could then go to setup

 

Friday night is a big start for Freddy Garcia. If he puts up another solid outing as he did Saturday night, you might see Omar get a little trigger happy on Saturday morning and make a deal. He doesn't lose much from the big league club by dealing Heilman (since he will get Garcia back), and Humber is the prospect that gets it done on Kenny's end.

 

If the sox want to move Freddy, they shouldn't wait 'til Fri. to pull the trigger. Keep his ERA under 5.00

[iamshack]

Sanchez and a lesser prospect than Humber would be decent as well. Or if NY included Humber, a guy like Riske could go. Heilman IMO is another Riske--decent but not lights out. The Mets could include Sanchez as Pelfrey could then go to setup

If the sox want to move Freddy, they shouldn't wait 'til Fri. to pull the trigger. Keep his ERA under 5.00

 

It makes no sense to trade him just to trade him.

Gamble and hope that his stock rises, and that someone will get desperate on Saturday afternoon (unless they get desperate before), and if you can't get what you want, then hold onto him. He still has plenty of value to us.

[beck72]

It makes no sense to trade him just to trade him.

Gamble and hope that his stock rises, and that someone will get desperate on Saturday afternoon (unless they get desperate before), and if you can't get what you want, then hold onto him. He still has plenty of value to us.

 

If Freddy gets lit up by Baltimore, then what would his value be? I'm saying if the Sox want to move him [that's a big IF] then trading after a very good start vs TEx. [that he got lucky in and still didn't hit 90 mph] makes sense. Gambling is one thing. Throwing away a very good trading chip is quite another

[iamshack]

If Freddy gets lit up by Baltimore, then what would his value be? I'm saying if the Sox want to move him [that's a big IF] then trading after a very good start vs TEx. [that he got lucky in and still didn't hit 90 mph] makes sense. Gambling is one thing. Throwing away a very good trading chip is quite another

 

If he has a bad outing Friday night, it isn't going to ruin his value. He has pitched in a lot of big games in his career and if one bad start against the Orioles really lessens his value that much, than so be it. You are simply hoping that another good start appeals to the impulsive side of Omar Minyana, and he has a few positive outings to put in front of the NY press to justify dealing away some young talent to acquire him.