Milkman delivers Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 QUOTE(hi8is @ Jul 18, 2006 -> 12:09 PM) just for kicks, if we did get cameron... dont you think that he would be the full time CF'er and that BA would become the 4th? s***, if we got Cameron, I'd let him or BA play RF and move Dye to LF because he is sloooooow. Then let Iguchi lead off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 QUOTE(hi8is @ Jul 18, 2006 -> 12:09 PM) just for kicks, if we did get cameron... dont you think that he would be the full time CF'er and that BA would become the 4th? I just don't see the point in replacing Brian at this point. It makes little sense to suffer through all his growing pains and then replace him just as he begins to produce for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Jul 18, 2006 -> 04:05 PM) If the Padres wanted Mackowiak half as badly as you seem to want to get rid of him, they'd have mentioned him somewhere in one of these rumors. They don't want him, give it up. If it would keep Fields from being dealt, so be it. BTW, Fields has not been mentioned in any of these rumors either. QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Jul 18, 2006 -> 05:28 PM) s***, if we got Cameron, I'd let him or BA play RF and move Dye to LF because he is sloooooow. Then let Iguchi lead off. Cameron makes little sense for the Sox, with BA coming on and Pods doing well in LF. And why exactly would SD get rid of him in the first place? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 Cameron makes little sense for the Sox, with BA coming on and Pods doing well in LF. And why exactly would SD get rid of him in the first place? Isn't Cameron a FA-to-be or does he have years left on his contract? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 QUOTE(beck72 @ Jul 18, 2006 -> 12:57 PM) If it would keep Fields from being dealt, so be it. BTW, Fields has not been mentioned in any of these rumors either. Cameron makes little sense for the Sox, with BA coming on and Pods doing well in LF. And why exactly would SD get rid of him in the first place? He's actually mentioned in the rumor, unlike Mackowiak or Fields. I don't know why they'd want to get rid of him. And what exactly is Pods doing well in LF? His defense is terrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Jul 18, 2006 -> 01:00 PM) He's actually mentioned in the rumor, unlike Mackowiak or Fields. I don't know why they'd want to get rid of him. And what exactly is Pods doing well in LF? His defense is terrible. There is actually a metric I posted this morning which shows that he is pretty average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 QUOTE(iamshack @ Jul 18, 2006 -> 01:08 PM) There is actually a metric I posted this morning which shows that he is pretty average. Then someone pointed out its flaws, no? Scott Podsednik must be one of the worst LFers in baseball. Aren't you the one who said he trusts his eyes over stats? It's clear to anyone who isn't blind that Pods is just plain bad on defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 QUOTE(JimH @ Jul 18, 2006 -> 06:00 PM) Isn't Cameron a FA-to-be or does he have years left on his contract? A free agent to be, I believe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Jul 18, 2006 -> 01:10 PM) Then someone pointed out its flaws, no? Scott Podsednik must be one of the worst LFers in baseball. Aren't you the one who said he trusts his eyes over stats? It's clear to anyone who isn't blind that Pods is just plain bad on defense. All defensive metrics are questioned currently. Read the methodology and explain to me what the flaws are, Milkman. I think even SABRSox would admit defensive metrics are in their infancy, but it isn't right to dismiss them simply because they don't tell you what you previously believed. No, I never, EVER said that I trust my eyes over statistics. No, it isn't always clear that Pods is "plain bad" on defense. Peer pressure can be such an amazing thing sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
103 mph screwball Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 Well, putting some rumors together for fun. How about... Garcia for Heilman and prospects AND Mackowiak, Tracey, and prospects for Cameron and Linebrink Heilman becomes our emergency 6th starter and part of the pen. Anderson becomes a defensive replacement outfielder for this season. Cameron plays centerfield Linebrink is the right handed setup BMac to starter Jenks, Linebrink, Thorton, Cotts, Riske, Heilman Count, MB, Garland, Javy, BMac Mackowiak's old job is no longer needed with Cameron, Anderson, and Cintron. I can see the Sox dealing Mackowiak because after they traded for him to be the infield utility, KW got a deal on Cintron that he couldn't pass up. That moved Mack to our 4th outfileder. Sox would like someone better defensively in that spot in my opinion. Padres get an upgrade at 3b, salary relief, and good prospects. Mets get a big name starter for the next 2 years. Sox get solid bullpen, Solid outfield D, BMac replaces Freddie, and lose prospects but that blow is lessened by the Mets prospects. Most importantly, I haven't posted in a while and I wanted to put up a RALLY CREDE before the Sox play the tigers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Jul 18, 2006 -> 06:00 PM) He's actually mentioned in the rumor, unlike Mackowiak or Fields. I don't know why they'd want to get rid of him. And what exactly is Pods doing well in LF? His defense is terrible. CAmeron may be mentioned, but he's hitting well, and with some pop. CF is the least of SD's problems. Who'll replace Cameron in Cf for SD? They have Giles in RF, CAmeron in CF, Roberts in LF, and Eric Young. Nothing in house or in the minors. Pods may be not be the best fielder. But Cameron isn't going to replace him, nor will BA slide over from CF. Who'll hit leadoff? The Sox may need a backup OFer who can hit from the right side, so Ozuna doesn't have to play LF. But Cameron isn't it. I think POds will play more vs LHP as the season wears on. IMO, Ozzie is saving Pods by not playing much vs LHP right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 QUOTE(iamshack @ Jul 18, 2006 -> 01:21 PM) All defensive metrics are questioned currently. Read the methodology and explain to me what the flaws are, Milkman. I think even SABRSox would admit defensive metrics are in their infancy, but it isn't right to dismiss them simply because they don't tell you what you previously believed. No, I never, EVER said that I trust my eyes over statistics. No, it isn't always clear that Pods is "plain bad" on defense. Peer pressure can be such an amazing thing sometimes. Yes, it is. Let's just forget it. Some people believe he's bad and some don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gojimthome Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 You want a trade? Day one: Garcia to SD for Linebrink and a middling pitching prospect. Day two: Podsednik, middling pitching prospect, Haeger, and Fields to TB for Crawford and Navarro. Day three: DFA Widger or throw him in the deal from day two if TB wants him. Trading's done for the season. New lineup: Crawford, LF Iguchi, 2B Thome, DH Konerko, 1B Dye, RF AJP, C Crede, 3B Uribe, SS Anderson, CF No more Freddy, no more Widger, we gain a good catcher prospect, a lockdown setup man, and a helluva LF signed for about a dollar fifty over a zillion years. We give up nothing that fit into our plans, anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Jul 18, 2006 -> 01:28 PM) Yes, it is. Let's just forget it. Some people believe he's bad and some don't. So when I present evidence to the contrary, it is dismissed. But when you disagree, we should simply drop it because you say so. I understand that you are implying that this horse is well past tortured, but when there is new evidence to be considered which suggests his defense may be improving, I think that is fair game for discussion. QUOTE(Contreras @ Jul 18, 2006 -> 01:32 PM) You want a trade? Day one: Garcia to SD for Linebrink and a middling pitching prospect. Day two: Podsednik, middling pitching prospect, Haeger, and Fields to TB for Crawford and Navarro. Day three: DFA Widger or throw him in the deal from day two if TB wants him. As much as I love the idea of getting Crawford, I think that the price is steeper than that. Perhaps something like this: Garcia to NY for Heilman, Humber. Heilman, Humber, Fields, and Phillips to TB for Crawford and Edwin Jackson. CC takes over in LF when Anderson plays against lefties, and CC takes over in CF while Pods plays against righties. Edwinmania gets thrown into our bullpen, with the hope that Coop can harness that stuff of his. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 QUOTE(Contreras @ Jul 18, 2006 -> 01:32 PM) You want a trade? Day one: Garcia to SD for Linebrink and a middling pitching prospect. Day two: Podsednik, middling pitching prospect, Haeger, and Fields to TB for Crawford and Navarro. Day three: DFA Widger or throw him in the deal from day two if TB wants him. No more Freddy, no more Widger, we gain a good catcher prospect, a lockdown setup man, and a helluva LF signed for about a dollar fifty over a zillion years. We give up nothing that fit into our plans, anyway. Actually, that's not bad. Except I'd forget about Navarro and the White Sox including an additional pitching prospect. If Tampa didn't want Podsednik, which they probably wouldn't, dangle Sweeney in place of him. Might as well -- he'd sure as hell be useless behind Crawford. I'll worry about Dye's replacement when he leaves, by which time they'll probably be another OF prospect. Sweeney/Haegar/Fields for Crawford should be enough. We're talking about three of our top five prospects. If Tampa doesn't accept that, f*** them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 Dioner Navarro is not a good catching prospect, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That funky motion Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Jul 18, 2006 -> 01:28 PM) Yes, it is. Let's just forget it. Some people believe he's bad and some don't. If he was even middle of the road, he would be playing CF. I sat last year right behind him and I never saw worse jumps on the ball. He is fast and that makes up for some of it. Now C Lee was great his last year in LF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Jul 18, 2006 -> 02:00 PM) And what exactly is Pods doing well in LF? His defense is terrible. He's hitting well, despite what people here like to think, especially as of late (.365/.411/.462 in July). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 QUOTE(That funky motion @ Jul 18, 2006 -> 02:06 PM) If he was even middle of the road, he would be playing CF. I sat last year right behind him and I never saw worse jumps on the ball. He is fast and that makes up for some of it. Now C Lee was great his last year in LF. Huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That funky motion Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(Felix @ Jul 18, 2006 -> 02:06 PM) He's hitting well, despite what people here like to think, especially as of late (.365/.411/.462 in July). What is that like 9 games? Edited July 18, 2006 by That funky motion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 QUOTE(Felix @ Jul 18, 2006 -> 02:06 PM) He's hitting well, despite what people here like to think, especially as of late (.365/.411/.462 in July). I cannot recall him not getting to any balls he should have lately either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox61382 Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 I haven't read the entire thread so someone might have come up with a similar deal, but what about a huge blockbuster trade with the following players: Sox get: Linebrink(RP) Cameron(CF) Kottaras© AA Carrillo(SP) AA Padres get: Garcia(SP) Anderson(CF) Fields(thirdbase) AAA Why the Padres do this deal? They get a quality middle of the rotation starter who will likely see his ERA drop significantly with a move from the AL and top hitters parks to the NL and top pitchers parks. Quality starting pitching is in high demand at the deadline and Garcia is one of the best available pitchers(making them stronger and other teams potentially weaker). He is also signed past this season which means that he will be more than just a month rental. They also get potentially their CF of the future in Anderson. He can contribute right away. He is already playing GG calibur D and it appears that his bat is slowly coming around. They also get their third baseman of the future in Fields. With the year that Fields is having he might be able to contribute more than the Padres current collection of third baseman in the majors. So the Padres get two potential cornerstones and a quality middle of the rotation starter. Why the Sox do this deal? They get one of the top right handed relievers in the game. This guy has been lights out in each of the past three seasons. He will drastically upgrade the talent in the Sox pen. They also get a veteran CF who plays similar D to Anderson but provides more offense at this point in his career. They also get a top catching prospect, which is something the Sox minor league system really lacks. I really like Kottaras's plate disipline, which leads me to believe that he will be a solid major leaguer. They also get a top pitching prospect and a guy that they targeted in last years draft. So the Sox get an upgrade in the pen and CF, while also potentially getting two young cornerstone type players. Both teams upgrade their major league teams while also filling needs for the future. Salary wise the deal is almost even with Cameron and Linebrink almost equalling Garcia's salary. It is highly unlikely to happen, but I think it is a fair deal that works for both teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That funky motion Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 QUOTE(iamshack @ Jul 18, 2006 -> 02:10 PM) I cannot recall him not getting to any balls he should have lately either. How about the ones he gets to that they fall out of his glove. Remember any of those? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 QUOTE(That funky motion @ Jul 18, 2006 -> 03:09 PM) What is that like 9 games? 52 AB, and considering he has a .280/.359/.399 line on the year, which is better than his line last year, the criticism of his offense is foolish. Criticize his defense all you want, but he hasn't hurt our offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 QUOTE(That funky motion @ Jul 18, 2006 -> 02:09 PM) What is that like 9 games? It's a start. If he was hitting for s*** the last 9 games people would sure as hell bring it up. He's at .280 with a .358 OBP. It isn't outstanding, but it's fairly solid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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