VAfan Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 Consider for a moment that KW's comments in the Trib today -- that he doesn't think any trades will happen with the Sox, that he's not interested in giving up anyone off his ML roster, etc. -- are not just subterfuge. If we're not going to get better via trades, then I certainly hope 2006 turns out like 2005 and none of our AL rivals get better either. Bobby Abreu. My chief and only real trade concern regarding other teams centers around Bobby Abreu getting moved. I hope he does NOT end up with the Yanks or the Tigers. I think the Yankees are going to pass Boston and win the East. Why? Because they always do. When was the last time Boston won that division? Abreu would be the perfect addition for that club, and would be one of the few teams for which Abreu would waive his no-trade. Of course the Yankees would have to guarantee his 2008 option, but that's no trouble for them. It's not much more than they have been paying Sheffield, who I'm sure they are done with. One of the reasons I want us to try to get Abreu to replace Pods in LF is to keep him from our rivals. Abreu could also really help the Tigers -- one rumored deal is Marcus Thames and Zach Minor -- but I'm less worried about that because I don't see Abreu wanting to play for the Tigers, even if they agree to pay him. There have also been rumors of Abreu to Boston for Trot Nixon. But the Phillies don't want Nixon, and I don't see that happening. Alfonso Soriano. I don't have much concern about Soriano, because good pitching can get him out. Still, I'd worry a bit more if he went to the Angels, who I think will win the AL West and could be our first round playoff opponent. If the Angels can hit, they could be dangerous given the pitching they have. Pitching. I don't think any major pitching is going to move that will affect any of the AL races. That's all I can think of in the moment. Sure, I'd still love to add Tom Gordon without surrendering major league pieces, but if we're not able to help ourselves, I hope it's a dead trading season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gojimthome Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 I really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really hope the Tigers don't get Abreu. If they get Abreu, I'm bypassing the standing-on-the-ledge phase of fandom and just jumping. In fact, I think we should pick up Abreu just to keep him away from Detroit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodAsGould Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 I dont know if Abreu will even waive his no trade clause to go to Detroit. Ive heard more than a couple times that he wants to go to the yanks only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSox05 Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 Tigers ain't getting Abreu. Jim Leyland said theres a better chance of a fan coaching the team for a week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 QUOTE(GoSox05 @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 11:56 AM) Tigers ain't getting Abreu. Jim Leyland said theres a better chance of a fan coaching the team for a week. If this is the deal they have to make to get Abreu then let them do it. Look at Thames numbers nad how Miner has pitched. They would be giving up a guy hitting .300 with 19 homers for a guy hitting .283 with half as many homers. Proposed trade: Thames and Miner for Abreu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodAsGould Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 Im confident this team can beat anyone else in the majors whether they make a move or not. And I dont care if we make a move or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 12:01 PM) If this is the deal they have to make to get Abreu then let them do it. Look at Thames numbers nad how Miner has pitched. They would be giving up a guy hitting .300 with 19 homers for a guy hitting .283 with half as many homers. Proposed trade: Thames and Miner for Abreu I just want them to do it so they are stuck with that huge option in 08'. They would have about $37 million tied up in two old OF's by that time in Maggs and Abreu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 Not really. Mostly because there are really no front line starters available. The Tigers can add to their offense, the Yankees and Sawx can as well and it won't bug me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 05:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If this is the deal they have to make to get Abreu then let them do it. Look at Thames numbers nad how Miner has pitched. They would be giving up a guy hitting .300 with 19 homers for a guy hitting .283 with half as many homers. Proposed trade: Thames and Miner for Abreu You really want them to do this deal? It would make the Tigers' lineup much better. Sure, some wouldn't want to give up Thames, who appears to have finally come into his own. Thames, who is 29 years old, entered this season with just one major league season under his belt. Thames is batting .295 .with 19 homers and 43 RBI. Thames' trade value will never be higher. Coming into this season, Thames had a lifetime .226 batting average and 19 home runs and 55 RBI in 136 games. The same goes for Miner. He has had a tremendous start to his career. Miner, who was a marginal minor league pitcher, is 6-2 with a 3.30 ERA, filling in for Mike Maroth. With the pitching coming up through the minors, it's probably going to be impossible to keep Miner in the majors anyway. That is nothing to give up for Abreu. Abreu is behind only Mauer, Hafner, and Pujols in OBP. Those guys also have better than .310 batting averages. Abreu has 61 RBI which is not too shabby either. Abreu is a very good player in the prime of his career. You are drastically underestimating him. Edited July 19, 2006 by southsideirish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 QUOTE(southsideirish @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 01:21 PM) You really want them to do this deal? It would make the Tigers' lineup much better. That is nothing to give up for Abreu. Abreu is behind only Mauer, Hafner, and Pujols in OBP. Those guys also have better than .310 batting averages. Abreu has 61 RBI which is not too shabby either. You put him in a better lineup and his average will definitely climb because he will see better pitches. He will also get more pitches to hit out of the park as well. Abreu is a very good player in the prime of his career. You are drasticllay underestimating him. How exactly is the Tigers' order better than the Phillies? I wouldn't underestimate Rollins, Burrell, Howard, Utley and Rowand. Howard is far and away the best hitter between the two teams and Utley is right up there as well, I'd say that's some damn good protection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 06:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> How exactly is the Tigers' order better than the Phillies? I wouldn't underestimate Rollins, Burrell, Howard, Utley and Rowand. Howard is far and away the best hitter between the two teams and Utley is right up there as well, I'd say that's some damn good protection. Yes I was wrong about that. I wasn't thinking. That is why I took it out almost immediately after I posted it. You are too quick for me. Rowand I don't think much of, but the rest you are right on about. Edited July 19, 2006 by southsideirish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 QUOTE(southsideirish @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 01:21 PM) You really want them to do this deal? It would make the Tigers' lineup much better. That is nothing to give up for Abreu. Abreu is behind only Mauer, Hafner, and Pujols in OBP. Those guys also have better than .310 batting averages. Abreu has 61 RBI which is not too shabby either. Abreu is a very good player in the prime of his career. You are drastically underestimating him. Abreu has a nice OBP because he has walked 87 times this year. He has Pat Burrell as protection, so what would you rather do. Face Abreu or face Pat Burrell. Abreu is great player, but look at the seaosn of the guy he would be replacing. Thames has an 1.009 OPS with 19 dongs and plays half his games in a very large park. Abreu makes a lot of money, and would kill them making other deals. Abreu also hits lefty pitching well, and righties not as well. So it counters why you would pick him up, to be protection for righty pitchers. I would be worried more if they were picking up Ibanez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 06:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Abreu has a nice OBP because he has walked 87 times this year. He has Pat Burrell as protection, so what would you rather do. Face Abreu or face Pat Burrell. Abreu is great player, but look at the seaosn of the guy he would be replacing. Thames has an 1.009 OPS with 19 dongs and plays half his games in a very large park. Abreu makes a lot of money, and would kill them making other deals. Abreu also hits lefty pitching well, and righties not as well. So it counters why you would pick him up, to be protection for righty pitchers. I would be worried more if they were picking up Ibanez. And what is wrong with walking 87 times? I already answered the second question. Thames is 29 and is a .253 career hitter (.226 career hitter before this year). One season does not make a player. Yes, I would trade him and Minor for Abreu. With the Tigers surplus of good young pitching coming throught the minors I would not mind giving that Minor guy up at all. It is a no brainer trade. They would be getting much better. Is Abreu overpaid? YES! OF COURSE! However, he is still much better than Thames and Minor. Why is Ibanez even being brought up? The Mariners are buyers, not sellers. They are even involved in Soriano talks. I don't know why we are even talking about Ibanez. Edited July 19, 2006 by southsideirish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gojimthome Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 01:36 PM) Abreu has a nice OBP because he has walked 87 times this year. He has Pat Burrell as protection, so what would you rather do. Face Abreu or face Pat Burrell. Abreu is great player, but look at the seaosn of the guy he would be replacing. Thames has an 1.009 OPS with 19 dongs and plays half his games in a very large park. Abreu makes a lot of money, and would kill them making other deals. Abreu also hits lefty pitching well, and righties not as well. So it counters why you would pick him up, to be protection for righty pitchers. I would be worried more if they were picking up Ibanez. "Not as well" does not mean "bad." He has an .864 OPS vs. Righties, ya know. That would mean that Abreu's weak side this year is better than what Magglio's doing on the year as a whole. So, at his worst, Abreu > Magglio. As for Thames, look at his minor league numbers. He's a fluke. In fact, so is Minor. They're both outperforming thie minor league numbers IN THE MAJORS. If that's all the price really is, I can't imagine why the deal isn't done yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 QUOTE(Contreras @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 06:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> "Not as well" does not mean "bad." He has an .864 OPS vs. Righties, ya know. That would mean that Abreu's weak side this year is better than what Magglio's doing on the year as a whole. So, at his worst, Abreu > Magglio. As for Thames, look at his minor league numbers. He's a fluke. In fact, so is Minor. They're both outperforming thie minor league numbers IN THE MAJORS. If that's all the price really is, I can't imagine why the deal isn't done yet. I honestly can't believe that this is a real trade proposal. I think this Rob Parker columnist from the Detroit News is making this thing up. If those are the only players involved this deal would have been done already. I find this very hard to believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevHead0881 Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 (edited) I'd be much more concerned about other AL contenders significantly upgrading their pitching. For instance, I'd be more upset if the Tigers were to land John Smoltz then if they were to add Soriano or Abreu. Luckily, the Braves are back in the wild card race and he probably isn't going anywhere. As was the case with us last year, its gonna be the pitching that makes or breaks many of these teams, in my opinion. Edited July 19, 2006 by KevHead0881 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gojimthome Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 QUOTE(southsideirish @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 02:08 PM) I honestly can't believe that this is a real trade proposal. I think this Rob Parker columnist from the Detroit News is making this thing up. If those are the only players involved this deal would have been done already. I find this very hard to believe. Yeah, it'd be kind of like Thornton and Dye for Pujols. I'm with you. The proposed deal has to be made-up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ginger Kid Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 Thames has so many clutch big hits that I'd love to see him go. And if Detroit wants to weaken their primary strength and throw in some of their starting pitching, then be my guest. I don't fear hitters coming from the weak NL to the AL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 Bobby Abreu stats: G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB BA OBP SLG Season 90 307 60 88 23 2 8 61 20 .287 .439 .453 Power numbers are down but his OBP is impressive. Did not realize he walked so much. I agree that Thames has been too clutch to trade, but it could also be a flash in the pan type year and Abreu, Ordonez, and Granderson in their OF for years could hurt a lot of people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gojimthome Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 QUOTE(The Ginger Kid @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 02:39 PM) Thames has so many clutch big hits that I'd love to see him go. And if Detroit wants to weaken their primary strength and throw in some of their starting pitching, then be my guest. I don't fear hitters coming from the weak NL to the AL. "Hi." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RME JICO Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 QUOTE(Contreras @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 03:47 PM) "Hi." Classic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gojimthome Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 QUOTE(RME JICO @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 02:52 PM) Classic! Before that pic, I was jealous of his hitting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 If the Tigers get anyone, I would say it would be Soriano. Of course im not sure how that effects their lineup. If that is the only move they make, and they trading pitching for it, im not that worried. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RME JICO Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jul 19, 2006 -> 04:03 PM) If the Tigers get anyone, I would say it would be Soriano. Of course im not sure how that effects their lineup. If that is the only move they make, and they trading pitching for it, im not that worried. From the Detroit Free Press: Trade front: The working day closed without new developments in the Tigers' pursuit of Washington infielder-outfielder Alfonso Soriano. The Nationals have asked for three Detroit prospects (right-handers Humberto Sanchez and Jair Jurrjens, along with a position player) in return. If a deal takes place, it is not likely that anyone from the Tigers' current 25-man roster will be involved. Sanchez (5-2, 3.19 at Triple-A Toledo), perhaps the most coveted prospect in the system, will start for the Mud Hens tonight. Only 3 prospects for Soriano? Wow, that would be a good deal for the Tigers, but I am sure the Nats will get better offers (or at least I hope so). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 Geezus, Thome... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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