Could This Be a Solution to the Pitching Problem?

[LVSoxFan]

I realize I may get crucified by the ton of more baseball-knowledgeable people here, but I had this crazy idea last night after Javy tanked yet another game with the Big Inning.

 

I think we can all agree that Javy has the "stuff," but is just mentally askew. He looked damn good for five innings last night and then bam, bam, bam! Next thing we know, a grand-slam later, we're down 5-2. BTW, who thought we would come back after that? Me neither.

 

So in a nutshell: Javy's good for a few innings, can even be lights-out, but just can't pull off entire games.

 

Sooo...

 

Why not move Javy to the pen for middle relief and make McCarthy the fifth starter? A switcheroo.

 

It's either really brilliant or really flawed as an idea. I'm sure you're going to tell me which one, LOL.

 

Discuss!

[whitesoxfan101]

I realize I may get crucified by the ton of more baseball-knowledgeable people here, but I had this crazy idea last night after Javy tanked yet another game with the Big Inning.

 

I think we can all agree that Javy has the "stuff," but is just mentally askew. He looked damn good for five innings last night and then bam, bam, bam! Next thing we know, a grand-slam later, we're down 5-2. BTW, who thought we would come back after that? Me neither.

 

So in a nutshell: Javy's good for a few innings, can even be lights-out, but just can't pull off entire games.

 

Sooo...

 

Why not move Javy to the pen for middle relief and make McCarthy the fifth starter? A switcheroo.

 

It's either really brilliant or really flawed as an idea. I'm sure you're going to tell me which one, LOL.

 

Discuss!

 

I've seen much dumber ideas than this on the boards before. I'd be willing to give it a shot, and it is true that Javy with his stuff could in theory be a damn good relief guy that only throws 1 or 2 innings an appearance, and it's also true that B-Mac has the ability to be a VERY good starter.

[GoRowand33]

I agree with the idea

 

maybe even Mccarthy and Vazquez could split games

[ottawa_sox]

I realize I may get crucified by the ton of more baseball-knowledgeable people here, but I had this crazy idea last night after Javy tanked yet another game with the Big Inning.

 

I think we can all agree that Javy has the "stuff," but is just mentally askew. He looked damn good for five innings last night and then bam, bam, bam! Next thing we know, a grand-slam later, we're down 5-2. BTW, who thought we would come back after that? Me neither.

 

So in a nutshell: Javy's good for a few innings, can even be lights-out, but just can't pull off entire games.

 

Sooo...

 

Why not move Javy to the pen for middle relief and make McCarthy the fifth starter? A switcheroo.

 

It's either really brilliant or really flawed as an idea. I'm sure you're going to tell me which one, LOL.

 

Discuss!

 

I don't see it happening, but due to the fact he seems to suffer his meltdown the third time through the lineup, it makes some sense. On the other hand he seems to fall apart when the pressure is on, so who knows. Perhaps he lacks the tough, mental fortitude to concentrate for more than 2 hours. . I still have some confidence in him as a starter.

[Balta1701]

I agree with the idea

 

maybe even Mccarthy and Vazquez could split games

That doesn't really make sense to me. Is Vazquez going to do better starting a couple times a month and pitching out of the pen a couple times a month? Is BMac? I can't see that working. At some point, guys need to have some sort of role defined. Javy makes a start, doesn't pitch out of the bullpen because he's resting after the start for a few days, then winds up unneeded for the next week, and ends up going 12 days between starts? I doubt that would work for anyone in baseball.

[NorthSideSox72]

I'd be on board with it - just a question of doing it now, or giving Javy more chances. Also, if they are considering trading Javier, then they'll need to keep running out there as a starter, at least until 7/31.

[whitesoxfan101]

That doesn't really make sense to me. Is Vazquez going to do better starting a couple times a month and pitching out of the pen a couple times a month? Is BMac? I can't see that working. At some point, guys need to have some sort of role defined. Javy makes a start, doesn't pitch out of the bullpen because he's resting after the start for a few days, then winds up unneeded for the next week, and ends up going 12 days between starts? I doubt that would work for anyone in baseball.

 

Your accurate with everyday you say, however something has to be done with Javy or Garcia, we can't just keep sending them out there and dying (and yes, I know Buehrle has been bad, but he's had bad stretches before and has bounced back, so I have faith in him at least).

[LVSoxFan]

I agree. I've heard of "closer by committee" but never starter by committee.

 

There is a precedent for my (admittedly naive) idea: El Duque, last year.

 

Wasn't doing well as a starter but damn if he didn't give us one of the finest relief innings--no make that THE finest--in White Sox history.

[Milkman delivers]

This scenario is perfect in theory. It really seems like a perfect answer.

 

The only problem is that the organization will never pay him the money they do to be a mop-up guy/reliever.

[Frankensteiner]

This isn't actually out of left field since it seems as if many of us have been talking about it for some time. But we saw last year how stubborn Ozzie was with El Duque, and Duque didn't have nearly as much talent nor was he making Vazquez's money (not to mention, Duque wasn't golf parnters with Ozzie in the off-season).

 

Brandon would have a better shot if his last name was McCastillo or something like that.

[GoSox05]

Or maybe Coop and Ozzie should take him and tell him that he has a great fastball and that he should use it. Not slider, slider, slider, fastball, slider, slider, grand slam.

 

 

Its a mental thing for him, so they have to fix that. Better a mental thing than a injury thing.

[whitesoxfan101]

You guys are right about the money not letting it happen, however I'd rather see Javy be a valuable bullpen arm than a spiff starter, and plus in that senario we are getting a better return on our investment. Too bad the organization will never see it that way.

[southsideirish71]

If we dont want Javy to be a starter then move him. Someone in the NL will give us something for him, preferably right handed relief. You cant have this mental midget in the pen, he implodes with runners on. I want bmac in the rotation. Omar Minaya has a stiff for this guy as much as KW did in the offseason. Pick up Hielman or whatever. You save money, you get a mental midget off our team, and you give financial flexibility to make a move. Then get a reliever.

[WCSox]

Something tells me that demoting a mentally-fragile starter to long-relief isn't going to make him more effective. And I'm not convinced that B-Mac would adjust to the rotation seamlessly.

[BigSqwert]

Something tells me that demoting a mentally-fragile starter to long-relief isn't going to make him more effective.

Well we need to just get rid of him then. We can't keep throwing him out there to get shelled. We already lost enough games because of Politte. Lets not keep making a similar mistake with this guy.

Edited July 20, 2006 by BigSqwert

[Guest JimH]

Bill Melton made what I thought was a good comment after the game last nite. He said it was extremely unlikely the White Sox could go out and trade for another starter that would do any better than what they've got. The trade market is really thin.

 

KW has said he only wants to add to this team, he says he doesn't plan on trading from his major league roster (as recently as Tuesday) and further he's said all along he has zero plans to trade any of the starters or McCarthy this year. It is entirely possible someone could physically break down, there is lots of baseball left.

 

The success of this team is predicated on the starting pitchers doing better. Many here think Brandon McCarthy is the magic pill, well, maybe he'll pitch better than Garcia or Vazquez or Buehrle and maybe he won't. I think opposing hitters are batting over .300 against him this year if I'm not mistaken. Doesn't prove much, but neither does simply saying he'll be better than what's already in the rotation. Just like the old saying goes, the backup QB is the most popular player in town.

 

Now if they can get a really good bullpen arm for prospects, then yes it makes sense to stretch McCarthy into the rotation for August to give one (or more) of the starters a break (DL them for 15 days).

 

But flip flopping McCarthy and say, Vazquez is easier said than done. By the time McCarthy is stretched out enough to go 6-7 innings it's August 1st anyways so it makes sense to see if they can add a bullpen arm.

 

There is no perfect solution, the bottom line is the players have to execute better. If they are tired or hurt, DL them. They did that to El Duque last year so they could do the same this year.

[Kalapse]

How will this fix Garcia? For as bad as Vazquez has been, Garcia has been even worse. If the Sox are going to only replace one starter I would much rather it be Freddy, the guy has no chance of succeeding with no out pitch. Atleast Vazquez has his stuff so there's a chance he can go out there and give you 5 innings of pretty good ball. Garcia, I don't think is even capable of that.

[LVSoxFan]

I realize it's a simplistic idea but thought I'd throw it out there. Because this is just getting painful.

 

Think about it, our ace staff this year, this is their status:

 

Buehrle: has gotten shelled the last THREE outings and has been spotty all year

 

Garcia: who knows WTF is going on with him this year? I don't.

 

Contreras: Has been solid, but showing signs that his back injury is throwing his game off

 

Garland: Actually the one bright spot as of late

 

Vasquez: I, like Bill Melton last night post-game, don't even know what to say anymore.

 

I was just thinking of some sort of shakeup that might re-energize everybody.

 

On paper, that looks good. On paper, I know.

 

How will this fix Garcia? For as bad as Vazquez has been, Garcia has been even worse. If the Sox are going to only replace one starter I would much rather it be Freddy, the guy has no chance of succeeding with no out pitch. Atleast Vazquez has his stuff so there's a chance he can go out there and give you 5 innings of pretty good ball. Garcia, I don't think is even capable of that.

 

I know what you mean. When the trade rumors started last week, my logic was: well at least Vasquez has "stuff," whereas Freddy has... I don't know what Freddy has right now.

 

The same was said of a certain pitcher last year first half: Contreras. Seemed like sort of a head case, but Ozzie would always talk about how great his stuff was.

 

I keep waiting for that to happen with Javy.

[Milkman delivers]

How will this fix Garcia? For as bad as Vazquez has been, Garcia has been even worse. If the Sox are going to only replace one starter I would much rather it be Freddy, the guy has no chance of succeeding with no out pitch. Atleast Vazquez has his stuff so there's a chance he can go out there and give you 5 innings of pretty good ball. Garcia, I don't think is even capable of that.

 

Exactly what I think, though I wouldn't cry if either one is traded.

 

I wish they would do what someone said in trade winds. Trade Garcia for Heilman and a prospect, trade Fields for Linebrink, and then let McCarthy start while Heilman can be the swingman in the pen.

 

I keep waiting for that to happen with Javy.

 

Keep waiting like the 2 other organizations that have had him the last few years before us. He's 30, he's not changing.

[Steve9347]

im down with that idea

[Kalapse]

Exactly what I think, though I wouldn't cry if either one is traded.

 

I wish they would do what someone said in trade winds. Trade Garcia for Heilman and a prospect, trade Fields for Linebrink, and then let McCarthy start while Heilman can be the swingman in the pen.

That's pretty much my dream scenerio, if that were to go down I'd feel so much better about this team's chances down the stretch and in the playoffs.

[LVSoxFan]

That's pretty much my dream scenerio, if that were to go down I'd feel so much better about this team's chances down the stretch and in the playoffs.

 

Sounds good to me!

[Milkman delivers]

That's pretty much my dream scenerio, if that were to go down I'd feel so much better about this team's chances down the stretch and in the playoffs.

 

Oh yeah, that scenario is good that it's completely sure not to happen. That's the bad part. Nothing ever comes together that perfectly.

[Chisoxfn]

Javier Vazquez can not pitch out of the pen. Why you ask? Because he can't pitch with runners on. When he goes into the stretch he shortens his leg kick and this gives him all kinds of troubles with his arm not being where it needs to be and its why his breaking pitches flatten out and the big inning erupts.

 

Sure, he may be coming in without anyone on from time to time and thats fine, but I am not about to bring him out with runners on. I'd prefer Coop to continue working with Javy (and I hope Javy is responding and listening and being very attentive) on coming up with a routine of how to pitch with runners on (I'm not talking about pitch selection, rather something he can think everytime he is pitching from the stretch so that it reminds him to calm down after giving up a couple hits and to make sure with the lower leg kick that he works extra hard to keep his arm in the proper spot. Both of these things will prevent him from overthrowing and flattening his breaking balls.