denny out of colorado........

[Guest hotsoxchick1]

Neagle wants out of Colorado

 

November 8, 2002 Print it

 

 

DENVER -- Denny Neagle wants the Colorado Rockies to trade him.

 

"They need payroll flexibility, and I want to go to a place where I am more appreciated," he was quoted as saying in Friday's editions of The Denver Post. "I know that I haven't lived up to my end of the bargain. But honestly, it hasn't worked out here for either of us, and it would be best for both parties if this marriage ended."

 

Neagle said he would consider restructuring his contract through deferrals, if he gets sent to a desirable location. He prefers Chicago, New York or a city on the West Coast. The 34-year-old lefthander twice vetoed trades to the Detroit Tigers last summer.

 

Neagle is owed $37 million during the remainder of his $51 million, five-year contract. His deal calls for $9 million salaries in each of the next two seasons, $10 million in 2005 and gives the team a $12.5 million option for 2006 with a $9 million buyout.

 

The Rockies have tried to trade Neagle for 11 months, but his big contract and performance have stifled offers.

Neagle signed with the Rockies in December 2000, then went 17-19 with a 5.32 ERA.

 

He was demoted to the bullpen for seven weeks last season before returning after John Thomson was traded July 31 to the New York Mets. He rediscovered his changeup and was among the best pitchers in the National League for a month until a left elbow injury.

 

Neagle said he had a small bone chip and some floating pieces removed during surgery a month ago and has resumed offseason workouts.

 

Trading Neagle or Mike Hampton, the other well-paid, underperforming starting pitcher the Rockies signed in 2000, would give the club much-needed payroll relief.

 

Neagle, Mike Hampton ($11 million), Larry Walker ($12.5 million), Todd Helton ($10.6 million) have combined salaries of $43.1 million next season, and the Rockies are expected to have a payroll of about $51 million.

 

With no takers for Hampton or Neagle, the Rockies have held preliminary talks with Arizona about right fielder Larry Walker.

 

"I don't think that's something that can be blamed on me and Mike. Larry's name has been out there in trade rumors for the past couple of years," Neagle said.

 

 

i sure in the hell hope the chicago team he means is the scrubs and not the sox......i cant imagine having this mess here...........

[Chisoxfn]

I'll pass. I don't want to take on his salary. I'd much rather sign someone at that price and not have to give anyone up.

 

Neagle is a bum, plain and simple. He's mediocre and it shows how many teams have foolish gm's.

[Guest hotsoxchick1]

Neagle is a bum, plain and simple. He's mediocre and it shows how many teams have foolish gm's.

 

and there ya have it folks... all that coming from a fan of a team with the most foolish gm around............lol lol lol.......tell me that this isnt just up kennys alley.... he would be the one to do it too espically since denny expresses chicago as a place to be.........kennys eating that s*** up ............

[GASHWOUND]

Originally posted by Chisoxfn

I'll pass.  I don't want to take on his salary.  I'd much rather sign someone at that price and not have to give anyone up. 

 

Neagle is a bum, plain and simple.  He's mediocre and it shows how many teams have foolish gm's.

 

agreed, the scrubbies can have him..

But just wondering..is Paul Byrd a FA? I heard Joe Cow mention him..rather have him

[Guest hotsoxchick1]

yes he is a fa.......but i think its a risk i dont want to take right now........

[GASHWOUND]

Originally posted by hotsoxchick1

yes he is a fa.......but i think its a risk i dont want to take right now........

 

Why is Byrd a risk? I thought he was pretty good last season..

[MurcieOne]

Originally posted by GASHWOUND

Originally posted by hotsoxchick1

yes he is a fa.......but i think its a risk i dont want to take right now........

 

Why is Byrd a risk? I thought he was pretty good last season..

 

Agreed Gash....... he was lightsout for a good part of the season. Alot more of sure thing than Denny Neagle.

[Guest hotsoxchick1]

well i dont want denny thats for sure... but the thing with byrd is hes pretty inconsistant.... i would like to spend the cash on a good vet whos been consistantly hitting the mark, proven you know what i mean.........hell if we dump franks salary then we have some money to spend right... why not do the right thing and spend it......besides byrd has pitched what was it around 220-230 hard innings this past season which is a lot for a guy whos not gone that far before, thats alot of wear and tear...... i would hate for him to get to our program and have his arm fall off like everyone elses does.....

[Molto]

byrd was pretty good in Philly in 99' he went 15-9 with an ERA of 4.60.

 

then he struggled in 2000 before getting dealt to the Phillies in 2001.

 

since then, he's been pretty good.

 

in his 48 starts since, he's gone 23-17 in 321 2/3 inning pitched with an ERA of 3.94.

 

those are pretty good numbers. if we can get him for 5-6 mil a year for 3 years I'd consider it.

 

he could be a strong #2 behind Buehrle.

 

he is also 32 years old. not young, but considering he's a late bloomer, may not be a bad idea.

[GASHWOUND]

Originally posted by hotsoxchick1

well i dont want denny thats for sure... but the thing with byrd is hes pretty inconsistant.... i would like to spend the cash on a good vet whos been consistantly hitting the mark, proven you know what i mean.........hell if we dump franks salary then we have some money to spend right... why not do the right thing and spend it......besides byrd has pitched what was it around 220-230 hard innings this past season which is a lot for a guy whos not gone that far before, thats alot of wear and tear...... i would hate for him to get to our program and have his arm fall off like everyone elses does.....

 

Well, I look at the positive..He's gonna give you between 7 to 9 innings everytime he goes out there..even if he is getting pounded(which wasn't that much) and had an era in the mid 3's I thing..yeah, him getting injured is always a risk, but we need veteran pitching and I'm wiling to take that risk..The Sox can't be that unlucky..or can they?

[Molto]

I agree.

 

I would take the risk with Byrd. it all depends how much though.

 

if some team is dumb enough to throw 7-8 mil at him, good for them.

 

if we can get him for 5-6 mil, which is basically the money we'll save from Thomas (whether he stays or goes), it could all work out.

 

also remember that Durham's, Alomar's, and Clayton's salaries are no longer with the team.

 

of course Ordonez will be making 10 mil this year and konerko and buehrle will be looking for cash.

[Chisoxfn]

If Bryd fails then he fails, but to me he'd be a good pickup. The guy knows how to pitch and can go deep into games.

 

Also, I don't think KW is the worse gm in baseball, I see many that are a lot worse, but everyone just hates management so much that they can't ever look past it. I know that pisses a lot of people up, but thats what I see.

 

I think Phillips is worse, the Marlins gm is worse, the Orioles Gm is worse, the Rockies gm is worse, the Royals Gm sucks, the Rangers gm sucks.

 

What I'm getting at, look around baseball, plenty of gm's aren't that great, and just cause KW doesn't spend money or makes one bad trade doesn't make him terrible.

 

He's still no worse then any of these other gm's at putting together a major league club, and he's way better than any of them at developing a minor league system that is exceptional.

[CubKilla]

Originally posted by hotsoxchick1

yes he is a fa.......but i think its a risk i dont want to take right now........

 

Byrd's our number 2 pitcher if JR can squeeze a few dollars out of his cheap f***ing ass.

[CubKilla]

Originally posted by Murcielago

Originally posted by GASHWOUND

Originally posted by hotsoxchick1

yes he is a fa.......but i think its a risk i dont want to take right now........

 

Why is Byrd a risk? I thought he was pretty good last season..

 

Agreed Gash....... he was lightsout for a good part of the season. Alot more of sure thing than Denny Neagle.

 

Or Todd Ritchie :mad:

[Guest hotsoxchick1]

well i am not even going to dream of getting a pitcher much less a half way deciend pitcher ...... i know kenny aint going to make any good moves this time around so whats the point in getting hopes up.......its going to be another dismal season.....of course we have all gotten so used to that anyhow..........:**** kenny williams

[FUCKREINSDORF]

Originally posted by hotsoxchick1

well i am not even going to dream of getting a pitcher much less a half way deciend pitcher ...... i know kenny aint going to make any good moves this time around so whats the point in getting hopes up.......its going to be another dismal season.....of course we have all gotten so used to that anyhow..........:**** kenny williams

 

As usual,HSC sums up the feelings of all true Sox fans perfectly.Hey,who the f*** am I to even fathom a thought of Maddux or Glavine on the South Side?? LMFAO!!!!!

It sucks to be 40 and realise the Sox will NEVER win a WS in your lifetime BECAUSE MANAGEMENT IS TOO f***ING CHEAP!!:mad::mad:

[witesoxfan]

Originally posted by Chisoxfn

I think Phillips is worse, the Marlins gm is worse, the Orioles Gm is worse, the Rockies gm is worse, the Royals Gm sucks, the Rangers gm sucks.

 

What I'm getting at, look around baseball, plenty of gm's aren't that great, and just cause KW doesn't spend money or makes one bad trade doesn't make him terrible.

 

Personally, I'd say (Steve Phillips I'm assuming) is worse or just as bad as KW anyway, the Orioles GM is worse, the Rockies GM is worse, and the Rangers GM in the offseason of 2000-2001 was worse too....their GM now is Cleveland's old GM, and I can't think of his name....anyways, he was the one that put together the Indians good run of 5 straight division titles. But if you sign Chan Ho Park....anyways, I don't think the Marlins GM or the Royals GM is worse mainly because they are given s*** for cash to spend. You think KW could run a team like that? I seriously doubt it.

 

If KW made one bad trade or if he didn't spend money, it would not make him a bad GM. However, he made the Todd Ritchie, he got nothing in return for Durham(practically anyways), he got the wrong guy in the Baldwin deal, and he traded for Clayton, and I am probably missing some too. Not only that, but he did spend money....correct me if I'm wrong, but we spent something in the range of $30-$40 million in 2000, and we won the division. In 2001, we spent around $65 million....anyone can see the difference, and he did spend more money, and he spent it unwisely.

 

KW is a terrible GM....he pisses me off, one move at a time. :mad: I'm not sure I could regain any respect for the man, but I may be able to if he could get us Lidle for MJ, if Gammons isn't s***tin' us, or Colon/Vazquez from Montreal for next to nothing. Those would be some pretty damn good moves, but we need another lefty. That is the main goal this offseason is another lefty, IMO.

[Molto]

you mean lefthanded hitter or pitcher?

 

personally I would like both, but I can deal with the offense we have.

 

if Thomas or Lee are gone, Liefer would be fine in my opinion. a lot of people doubt him, but he could put up some good power numbers. sure he won't drive in many, will have a low average, and will strikeout a lot, but do we really need that from a guy batting in the 6 hole? all we need a lefthander that is somewhat of a power threat on offense. that way Valentin could bat second with Jimenez first.

 

now of course, if we find a way get a pitcher without trading Lee and get a left handed hitting CF, then I would consider moving Rowand to left and dump Liefer. the CF needs to be someone though. Juan Pierre would be a pretty weak move. we have two lefties in our lineup right now (unless Johnson starts next year) in Valentin and Jimenez. both are top of the lineup guys. plus, Pierre isn't that special. he was playing in Coors field for christ sake. I would rather have Rowand, a guy we know what we are gonna get than Pierre.

 

I'm looking at getting Moyer also. I think he would be a perfect pickup. I wouldn't mind getting LIdle either, my only problem is we have Ritchie. he struggled this year, but he is still capable of throwing a 4.50 ERA with a 12-15 wins. if we get a guy like Moyer, then I could see us backing away from Lidle. THEN AGAIN, if we can get Lidle for Johnson and a Biddle or a Liefer or something, I would do it.

 

what would you guys say about this. first we sign Moyer. now of course that is a little far fetched, but I'm gonna dream for now. then what about this trade.

 

A's Get: Danny Wright, Mark Johnson, Rocky Biddle, and Porzio or Ginter

 

White Sox Get: Lidle, Lilly, and Harang

 

The A's cut salary by dumping Lidle, pick up a young, cheap, and talented #4 pitcher in Wright and a #5/relief pitcher in Biddle. plus a backup catcher and Porzio or Ginter as throw ins. they could give up Lilly and Harang cause they already have two awesome lefties in the rotation and will have four good starters for a few years after this. Harang wouldn't serve them much purpose. I would say deal them an OF, but we aren't in the position to be dealing OF at this point.

 

And for us. We would get Lidle, who would become our #3 behind Moyer and Buehrle, moving Garland to the #4 spot. we also get two young pitchers in Lilly and Harang. Lilly is a lefty who I believe could become a solid #4 guy after another year in the minors, just to fix his arm. Harang can be up to battle with Ritchie for the #5 spot and be a good young pitcher for us for a few years.

 

if Thomas stays, which it appears he will, we then have this for our roster. the only lefthanded hitting guy I could see out there is Finley, but he may cost too much.

 

LINEUP

2B-Jimenez

CF-Rowand

DH-Thomas

RF-Ordonez

1B-Konerko

SS-Valentin

LF-Lee

3B-Crede

C-Olivo

 

BENCH

C-Paul - or we can go out and sign us a a vet like a Lampkin, Krueter or Fabregas for cheap.

OF-Hollandsworth - I keep hearing jason say his name, so that could work.

LF/1B/3B - Liefer

INF-Graffanino

2B/CF-Harris (IF WE GO WITH JUST 11 PITCHERS)

 

ROTATION

#1-Buehrle

#2-Lidle

#3-Moyer

#4-Garland

#5-Ritchie/Harang

 

BULLPEN

CL-Foulke

SM-Marte

SM-Osuna

RHP-Glover

LHP-Wunsch

LR-Harang/Ritchie

LR-Lilly/Rauch (IF WE GO WITH 12 PITCHERS)

 

not that bad of a team. I don't like Valentin batting so low in the lineup, but we have no choice. rotation looks strong too.

 

let the criticizing begin!

[Chisoxfn]

Well if we could make that deal with the A's I'd crap my pants because Lidle and Lilly are good and I Like Harang a whole lot. I'd insert all 3 of them into the rotation for all I care.

 

Still it isn't going to happen.

 

Personally, I say move Lee or Thomas, and replace whoever goes with a lefthanded bat. Then add a new centerfielder and give Rowand plenty of time off the bench or move Rowand to get a new centerfielder.

 

I like Crash a whole lot, but I'd love to bring in another speed demon in here, that has a lot more skills then aaron.

[witesoxfan]

Regarding the lineup, bat Valentin 2nd, Lee 6th, Crede 7th and Rowand 8th....that's what I'd do anyways.

 

And Harang is inserted into the rotation as the #5. We need a power pitcher and in one of his first starts, he struck out 10 agsint the Mariners....that is something we need, even if it comes in a kit of inconsistency.

 

That is a decent rotation considering how potent our offense is. If Lidle pitches as good as he did in the second half of last year all year, we'd be in buisness. Not only that, but we would then have 4 capable starters too. That is something we need, and if we were to get to the postseason, we could do a lot of damage. The one bad thing about it all is probably the defense, and when your rotation, bullpen and offense are that good, we could be in buisness.