Frankensteiner Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 White Sox Their reported interest in Phillies closer Tom Gordon makes sense; the White Sox's rotation has been wobbly, but their bigger need is an impact setup man. Gordon, 38, is guaranteed a combined $12.5 million in 2007 and '08, plus a $1 million buyout. The Phillies are open to anything, but they lack a replacement for Gordon and would rather trade other parts. The White Sox won't trade right-hander Freddy Garcia for just a reliever; they would want a young starting pitcher, too. They inquired about Orioles Class AAA right-hander Daniel Cabrera, whom they initially would have used in relief, but to no avail. The successful return of Dustin Hermanson from lower back inflammation? It's probably too much to ask. The Diamondbacks and Pirates have relievers to spare, and White Sox G.M. Ken Williams is forever searching for creative solutions. He needs to find one — the White Sox trail the Tigers in the AL Central by a season-high 5 1/2 games and their wild-card lead is down to 2 1/2 games over the Yankees and four over the Twins. http://foxsports.foxnews.com/mlb/story/5803144 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 Was it Cabrerra that had a rough start against the Sox in the first inning, but than pitched real well the rest of the game? If so sign me up on Cabrerra but I don't see what we'd offer them. I could see the O's having interest in a guy like Freddy, especially if they think he'll be fine a year from now. You got to have a few quality vets to go with there young rotation, but the Sox would also have to get a bullpen piece from the O's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 Cabrera would drive us absolutely insane. Anyways, I see no way that the Orioles/Mazzone give him up, especially as they're not in contention this season. For some reason, I have a feeling we're going to see a Fields/Lumsden for Gordon trade in the next 10 days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankensteiner Posted July 21, 2006 Author Share Posted July 21, 2006 Cabrera has a nice arm and I'm sure the White Sox staff saw something they could do with Cabrera. It just makes feel so good inside knowing Don Cooper has all this time to evaluate other team's pitchers while our rotation is pitching like spiff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jul 21, 2006 -> 05:18 PM) Was it Cabrerra that had a rough start against the Sox in the first inning, but than pitched real well the rest of the game? If so sign me up on Cabrerra but I don't see what we'd offer them. I could see the O's having interest in a guy like Freddy, especially if they think he'll be fine a year from now. You got to have a few quality vets to go with there young rotation, but the Sox would also have to get a bullpen piece from the O's. Yeah, Cabrera gave up 4 in the first, and then shut us down for either 5 or 6 innings after that. However, Peter Angelos is ridiculously difficult to deal with. He is also PARANOID when it comes to players and possible injuries. I don't think Freddy would pass his smell test the way he is throwing. Additionally, while the O's may eventually get fed up with Cabrera, they have a pretty deep stable of young pitchers, so I doubt they would really want Garcia back. I wonder if we inquired about Tejada when we asked about Cabrera... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankensteiner Posted July 21, 2006 Author Share Posted July 21, 2006 QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 21, 2006 -> 05:21 PM) Cabrera would drive us absolutely insane. Anyways, I see no way that the Orioles/Mazzone give him up, especially as they're not in contention this season. For some reason, I have a feeling we're going to see a Fields/Lumsden for Gordon trade in the next 10 days. I think that would make me sick. Gordon does very little for this team unless he's actually replacing McCarthy in the bullpen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jul 21, 2006 -> 05:18 PM) Was it Cabrerra that had a rough start against the Sox in the first inning, but than pitched real well the rest of the game? If so sign me up on Cabrerra but I don't see what we'd offer them. I could see the O's having interest in a guy like Freddy, especially if they think he'll be fine a year from now. You got to have a few quality vets to go with there young rotation, but the Sox would also have to get a bullpen piece from the O's. Yes, yes it was. With as much trouble as Cabrera has had in the bigs I'd be incredibly intrigued with him. The guy has ACE stuff, the ability to shut down anyone anytime he wants. It's just another case of a young pitcher with great stuff but pathetic control. He's walked the world since comming into the bigs in '04 when he walked 89 and struck out 76. This year before being sent to the minors he K'd 90 but walked a ridiculous 75. The guy is only 26 years old, throws in the high 90's, is built like a god damn bull and could turn out to be a damned Ace in the future. I'm intrigued to say the least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 QUOTE(iamshack @ Jul 21, 2006 -> 03:23 PM) Yeah, Cabrera gave up 4 in the first, and then shut us down for either 5 or 6 innings after that. However, Peter Angelos is ridiculously difficult to deal with. He is also PARANOID when it comes to players and possible injuries. I don't think Freddy would pass his smell test the way he is throwing. Additionally, while the O's may eventually get fed up with Cabrera, they have a pretty deep stable of young pitchers, so I doubt they would really want Garcia back. I wonder if we inquired about Tejada when we asked about Cabrera... Ok good, Cabrerra has a great arm but I think he had an injury or two as well, so its not like they would be giving up a guy with a perfect medical history either. I could buy the idea of this move cause it gets Kenny a guy who could pitch in the pen now (if the Sox thing he's ready for that) yet become a starter a year or two from now (plus we DID have interest in him this off-season). The only thing left is which reliever they'd also get cause I think any deal of Freddy would involve a reliever (unless they think Cabrerra could be pretty good out of the pen now...but thats a bit risky, especially considering his command issues; you get him to throw strikes and stay healthy and this guy is a #1 on a lot of teams or a #2 on good teams). And no there is no guarantee Coop can fix things, but you gotta like that arm. Oh and in regards to the O's rotation...they have Russ Ortiz, so I think they could use a legit veteran. I realize its great to have young starters, but just ask the Tigers how much it means to have a legit vet in the rotation (Kenny Rogers) since they can really teach young guys how to pitch. What about Garcia for Latroy Hawkins and Cabrerra, maybe we throw in a prospect of sorts, even a Sean Tracey type. I could buy reasons why the O's do it and reasons why the Sox do it. The Sox may be giving up a bit, but Cabrerra's upside may be worth that. The one thing that concerns me about Hawkins is that his strikeout numbers are ridiculously low (he was always a strikeout guy for as long as I can remember him). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jul 21, 2006 -> 10:29 PM) What about Garcia for Latroy Hawkins and Cabrerra, maybe we throw in a prospect of sorts, even a Sean Tracey type. I could buy reasons why the O's do it and reasons why the Sox do it. The Sox may be giving up a bit, but Cabrerra's upside may be worth that. The one thing that concerns me about Hawkins is that his strikeout numbers are ridiculously low (he was always a strikeout guy for as long as I can remember him). So long as Baltimore is taking the majority of the $15 million (approx) left on Garcia's contract... where do I sign? I love Cabrera's arm. After watching him in the WBC, I really thought he was going to be the one to breakout under Mazzone's eye. Plus, Hawkins would be great to have in the back of the bullpen. His problems with the Cubs were overblown because he was in the closer's role. He'd be the sixth guy in our 'pen, no problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jul 21, 2006 -> 05:29 PM) What about Garcia for Latroy Hawkins and Cabrerra, maybe we throw in a prospect of sorts, even a Sean Tracey type. I could buy reasons why the O's do it and reasons why the Sox do it. The Sox may be giving up a bit, but Cabrerra's upside may be worth that. The one thing that concerns me about Hawkins is that his strikeout numbers are ridiculously low (he was always a strikeout guy for as long as I can remember him). Considering how well the American League East has hit Garcia, Baltimore should probably think twice about the prospects of having soft-tossing Freddy give up 5/6 ER every appearance. For an extra incentive to Baltimore, I'm guessing we'd have to depart with Broadway (which I wouldn't mind) or Lumsden (which I would) rather than Tracey. I'm a huge fan of lopsided trade scenarios where Williams gives up nothing and receives everything, but if Orioles initially wouldn't trade Garcia for Cabrera, why would they add Hawkins? He's not pitching well, but not poorly either. It's likely a salary dump. You're right to be concerned about this low strikeout totals. 17K's in 40 IP? Wow. I haven't seen him pitch this season, but perhaps his velocity has decreased? Still, even with his numbers, he'll undoubtedly pitch better than Tracey or Politte. For Cabrera's potential and Garcia's departure I'll accept a season of Hawkins on the side. 4.5 million+ and all. Edited July 21, 2006 by Flash Tizzle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 Flash I can't make the assumption that we know the exact specifics of why the O's turned down the deal. Maybe the Sox were asking for some other reliever in return because I don't think the deal was a Cabrerra for Garcia straight up swap (especially sine the first couple sentences mention the Sox getting a reliever plus some). The O's have a lot of young arms so what they need are some vets that could potentially pitch and like I said I have no idea what the specifics are and I doubt Rosenthal does either, but I do think the O's could have interest in Garcia and I see the Sox as the type of team that would love Cabrerra in the long term (so would a lot of teams though). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 QUOTE(iamshack @ Jul 21, 2006 -> 03:23 PM) Yeah, Cabrera gave up 4 in the first, and then shut us down for either 5 or 6 innings after that. However, Peter Angelos is ridiculously difficult to deal with. He is also PARANOID when it comes to players and possible injuries. I don't think Freddy would pass his smell test the way he is throwing. Additionally, while the O's may eventually get fed up with Cabrera, they have a pretty deep stable of young pitchers, so I doubt they would really want Garcia back. I wonder if we inquired about Tejada when we asked about Cabrera... Supposedly Baltimore is asking for something like 3 major league players for Tejada. I don't even know if we have guys that could pull off their request. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 I called our interest in Cabrera about a week back when he was first optioned to AAA, thought that we would definitely be interested in him because of his stuff and Coop. And yeah he may drive you insane like fathom said, but didn't we say that about Matt Thornton when he first arrived on the Southside? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 I think a trade of Garcia and Valido is probably good enough to get Hawkins and Cabrera. I love Cabrera, he has a rocket arm with nasty stuff, his major fault is that is K/BB ratio is like 1/1 due to control issues, he pitches like Ricky Vaughn before the glasses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 QUOTE(IowaSoxFan @ Jul 22, 2006 -> 12:36 PM) I think a trade of Garcia and Valido is probably good enough to get Hawkins and Cabrera. I think Baltimore would be at that offer personally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 (edited) Let's get off this Coop crap. Isn't Mazzone Coop Sr.? He couldn't do anything with the guy. Coop needs to concentrate on fixing the greatest rotation in the history of baseball. There are a lot of current White Sox pitchers who Coop needs to work with, and get some results or it won't matter who KW acquires. Edited July 22, 2006 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jul 22, 2006 -> 01:59 PM) Let's get off this Coop crap. Isn't Mazzone Coop Sr.? He couldn't do anything with the guy. Coop needs to concentrate on fixing the greatest rotation in the history of baseball. There are a lot of current White Sox pitchers who Coop needs to work with, and get some results or it won't matter who KW acquires. Mazzone's done jack with the Baltimore SP's this season regardless. But yes, Coop has fixed some guys like Thornton, but unfortunately more importantly, others like Buerhle and Garcia have gone backwards big time this season, and it may end up costing us a playoff spot when it's all said and done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jul 22, 2006 -> 12:20 AM) Mazzone's done jack with the Baltimore SP's this season regardless. But yes, Coop has fixed some guys like Thornton, but unfortunately more importantly, others like Buerhle and Garcia have gone backwards big time this season, and it may end up costing us a playoff spot when it's all said and done. Soft tossers without location are meat in the majors. Buerhle has had good control, up until about a month ago. Garcias control hasnt been pinpoint his entire career. The fact that he has no velocity means that unless the team is super aggressive, they just wait it out and he will give them the cookie they deserve. Too bad we didnt draft a guy like Garza or Carillo. We keep drafting soft tossers who can barely break a plain of glass. Hopefully this experience with soft tossing freddy and Buerhle without control, will start to get the draft in the right direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 Cesar Carillo = bad elbow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CySox Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 the orioles are idiots. we could probably get cabrera for a turkey sandwhich. Cabrera should be in their starting rotation right now, not in AAA. I have no idea what the orioles are thinking by sending him down. They send him down, but keep Russ Ortiz, real smart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 QUOTE(JimH @ Jul 22, 2006 -> 02:51 PM) Cesar Carillo = bad elbow. That's too bad. The kid seems very nice, and I always root for the local guys to succeed (except for Granderson now). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 Now Roesnthal is saying the Sox are willing to give up top prospects to get Soriano. I've also hated how Soriano's numbers were covered by his huge SLG%, but with the year he is having, how could you not want him over Pods? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Jul 22, 2006 -> 05:14 PM) Now Roesnthal is saying the Sox are willing to give up top prospects to get Soriano. I've also hated how Soriano's numbers were covered by his huge SLG%, but with the year he is having, how could you not want him over Pods? I'd love to see Soriano on this team. My only fear is that we wouldn't re-sign him, and then he'd only be a 3 month rental. Where did you see this news? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Showtime Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 22, 2006 -> 12:17 PM) I'd love to see Soriano on this team. My only fear is that we wouldn't re-sign him, and then he'd only be a 3 month rental. Where did you see this news? FOX pre-game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 22, 2006 -> 12:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'd love to see Soriano on this team. My only fear is that we wouldn't re-sign him, and then he'd only be a 3 month rental. Where did you see this news? Yeah, but he is a lock to net you two first round picks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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