Getting through this rut

[BigSqwert]

No reason to beat a dead horse since we can all see that this team just isn't playing worth a damn right now. (By that I mean this isn't a thread to bash the team.) So what's going to be the turning point that shifts things the other way? Will it be some late inning heroics? A big time trade? A return back to fundamentals and Ozzie-ball?

 

Personally I think it'll have to involve a big trade involving pitching. I think the pitching is starting to cause the hitters to press since they are having to always come back from deficits. We either need to get someone solid for the pen so we can move McCarthy into the rotation or somehow acquire another starter. The first option seems more likely but you never know with Kenny. By fixing/improving the pitching staff I believe there will be less added pressures for the offense to perform.

Edited July 22, 2006 by BigSqwert

[CWSOX45]

I really think Kenny will make a move, it should be anytime now. (Hopefully it will be a good arm in the pen)

[southsideirish71]

I think the biggest thing we can do to help jump start the offense. Is to back to hitting line drives and stop trying to hit home runs when we have RISP. All I am seeing is either our guys rolling over on an outside pitch, or popping it up. This is what we saw time in and time out from the 2001-2004 whitesox. If they start to keep a level swing, and just try to keep the line moving instead of clearing the bases with one swing we will see better results.

[BigSqwert]

I think the biggest thing we can do to help jump start the offense. Is to back to hitting line drives and stop trying to hit home runs when we have RISP. All I am seeing is either our guys rolling over on an outside pitch, or popping it up. This is what we saw time in and time out from the 2001-2004 whitesox. If they start to keep a level swing, and just try to keep the line moving instead of clearing the bases with one swing we will see better results.

I completely agree that the approach of the hitters needs to change but don't you think the pitching is putting us into too many holes, causing the hitters to press? Our staff ERA is miserable, especially the starters.

[southsideirish71]

I completely agree that the approach of the hitters needs to change but don't you think the pitching is putting us into too many holes, causing the hitters to press? Our staff ERA is miserable, especially the starters.

 

 

I would like to see Bmac in the rotation with Tracey the back end of the piggy back until Bmac can be stretched out. Freddy traded for something, a reliever or a young pitcher that can be a reliever.

[Frankensteiner]

I just think this team needs better pitching from the starters. This isn't some huge secret. We can talk about Ozzie-ball or fundamentals, but really, last year Ozzie ball was successful because of the pitching. I didn't think we were a particularly strong fundamental team last year. We had some bad bunters in the lineup, too (Rowand, anyone?).

 

We're getting killed because 3/5 of our starters absolutely blow at the moment. Buehrle seems like the most likely for a turnaround. But one of the other two guys should be moved to either open up a spot for McCarthy or allow Kenny to trade for another starter. So I'll say a trade is probably what will get us going.

[BigSqwert]

I just think this team needs better pitching from the starters. This isn't some huge secret. We can talk about Ozzie-ball or fundamentals, but really, last year Ozzie ball was successful because of the pitching. I didn't think we were a particularly strong fundamental team last year. We had some bad bunters in the lineup, too (Rowand, anyone?).

 

We're getting killed because 3/5 of our starters absolutely blow at the moment. Buehrle seems like the most likely for a turnaround. But one of the other two guys should be moved to either open up a spot for McCarthy or allow Kenny to trade for another starter. So I'll say a trade is probably what will get us going.

You echo my sentiments. The problem is 3 of 5 starters are not pitching well. You may take care of one of those slots via a trade but then you still have 2 other guys struggling. I guess we'll just have to hope and pray.

[TLAK]

A bad night by the opposition starter.

[southsideirish71]

A bad night by the opposition starter.

 

 

Well lucky for us, John Koronko is basically poo who throws lefty. If we cant put up a say, 5 spot on this guy then we should have more batting practice.

[Gregory Pratt]

From SoxMachine:

 

For lefties, it's as easy as 1-2-3

Watching such future Hall of Famers as Ron Mahay and C.J. Wilson cut through the top of the lineup like a hot knife through butter, perhaps it's time to recalibrate the Sox lineup a little bit. Scott Podsednik, Tadahito Iguchi and Jim Thome have done more harm than good, but that's mainly because 90 percent of the human population is right-handed.

 

Here's what the top of the order looks like:

 

vs. Righties vs. Lefties

Podsednik

Iguchi

Thome

.293 | .376 | .423

.333 | .386 | .458

.326 | .436 | .805

Podsednik

Iguchi

Thome

.229 | .292 | .312

.211 | .271 | .324

.248 | .368 | .372

 

 

Iguchi's the one who screws it up, because by being righty, he's supposed to hit lefties well naturally. The baffling thing is that he hit lefties better last year (.274/.353/.459), and it's not like he made vast changes with his swing. Maybe scouts figured out a weakness after his first big-league season, or maybe it's just some sort of mental block.

 

Whatever the case may be, opposing teams have been presented a hole in the White Sox lineups, and smart managers like Joe Torre, Jim Leyland and Buck Showalter have taken advantage of it. Since the All-Star break, the 1-2-3 spots have been 8-for-36 against southpaws. Eliminate Scott Podsednik from the equation (he's 4-for-9, even with an 0-for-4 against Nate Robertson), and Sox hitters are 4-for-27 against lefties.

 

Then when you throw in Paul Konerko, who has been 2-for-21 in the White Sox's six post-break losses, nearly half the Sox lineup is caving in on itself when lefties take the mound.

 

So what can be done to remedy this situation? Let's list the possibilities from most possible to least:

 

Solution No. 1: Flip Konerko and Thome in the batting order.

 

Pros: Assuming Konerko starts hitting, a situational lefty can't last an entire inning with Pods leading off.

No increase in double play possibilites, as Thome and Konerko are both slow.

Preserves rest of lineup.

 

 

Cons: Iguchi and Pods are still two holes in a row.

There's something comforting about having Thome disrupt a pitcher's first inning every ballgame. Konerko doesn't provide the same scare.

 

 

Solution No. 2: Dump Iguchi to seventh, push the rest of the lineup up one spot with Konerko hitting second.

 

Pros: The best hitters are up the soonest.

 

Good righty-lefty balance:

Pods-PK-Thome-Dye-A.J.-Crede-Gooch-Uribe-Anderson

 

Speed is dispersed the same.

Thome is still up in the first inning.

 

 

 

Cons: Paulie isn't a traditional "No. 2" hitter -- works on paper, but new role could make him uncomfortable.

 

Alters approach, as far as run manufacturing goes (this is a con assuming Iguchi remembers how to bunt).

 

 

Solution No. 3: Be more aggressive in deploying Pablo Ozuna and Alex Cintron.

 

Pros: It doesn't disrupt batting order.

 

Speed/bunting game is still there.

 

Good lefty-righty balance.

 

On-base percentages favor this highly.

 

 

 

Cons: Pisses off Iguchi, who believes he's an everyday player -- and he has a right to believe that.

 

It's a downgrade defensively.

Increases chances of Ozzie overmanaging later in the game, takes away bench flexibility.

Ozuna's crashing down to Earth.

 

 

The second option actually excites me a great deal, and I think it makes a lot of sense in the American League. In the National League, the 1-2 hitters don't only start the game, but they often have to make up ground with an automatic out in front of them. But in the AL, after the first pitches are thrown, "leadoff man" never really re-enters the equation. Good hitters are good hitters, and the Sox would be pushing theirs towards the top of the lineup.

 

However, with respect to the people who actually have to play the game, Ozzie has to use them in manners in which they feel comfortable. Flipping the 3-4 spots doesn't make much difference because 1) both Thome and Konerko have hit there before, and 2) Jermaine Dye is bringing up the rear either way. That's probably the best place to start. If Konerko rebounds from this slump, then you can see what happens to the offense before making any more drastic changes.

 

Feel free to drop any other ideas you have. I feel like I'm missing an option, but I can't quite think of what it might be.

 

I thought it was interesting, but I don't like the idea of flipping Paulie and Gooch. Konerko grounds into too many double plays for my taste, and I wouldn't want him batting while Podsednik's on first.

[southsideirish71]

From SoxMachine:

I thought it was interesting, but I don't like the idea of flipping Paulie and Gooch. Konerko grounds into too many double plays for my taste, and I wouldn't want him batting while Podsednik's on first.

 

Konerko does crappy as a 3 hole hitter. Dye did well last year at the end as the 3 hole hitter. But I would be reluctant to taint Dyes great hitting right now.

[BigSqwert]

From SoxMachine:

I thought it was interesting, but I don't like the idea of flipping Paulie and Gooch. Konerko grounds into too many double plays for my taste, and I wouldn't want him batting while Podsednik's on first.

Perhaps they would have Pods run more in that scenario?

 

Another thing that could jumpstar the team would be a bench clearing brawl like the one they had in 2000. This is something that could even occur tonight or tomorrow after another plunked batter by a Ranger pitcher last night. Of course it wouldn't be a guarantee to get the ball club to play better but it might spark a little more fire in their bellies.

[elrockinMT]

I think the biggest thing we can do to help jump start the offense. Is to back to hitting line drives and stop trying to hit home runs when we have RISP. All I am seeing is either our guys rolling over on an outside pitch, or popping it up. This is what we saw time in and time out from the 2001-2004 whitesox. If they start to keep a level swing, and just try to keep the line moving instead of clearing the bases with one swing we will see better results.

 

 

Back to playing fundamentally sound baseball. Go the other way when needed and laying down the bunt. You got it Southside!

[Chisoxmatt]

We are hitting well right now (meaning we are getting a lot of hits) but we are not getting the runners in. We need to stop hitting home runs and start hitting gap-to-gap. More bunting, stealing, and sac flies. Thome, Konerko, and Dye can continue to swing for the fences, but everyone else needs to focus on getting hits and their fundamentals. We need to get the runners in when the runners are on.

 

This is on Ozzie if you ask me. He needed to fix our bunting problem earlier...

[Maverick0984]

I completely agree that the approach of the hitters needs to change but don\'t you think the pitching is putting us into too many holes, causing the hitters to press? Our staff ERA is miserable, especially the starters.

 

we have the worst ERA in July in all of the AL, per ESPN.

[The Critic]

Better execution of fundamentals.

Their bunting is atrocious lately and I can't remember the last successful hit-and-run they pulled off, or even the last time they tried one.

[fathom]

This is on Ozzie if you ask me. He needed to fix our bunting problem earlier...

 

Bunting is not the issue, getting hits with RISP is the big issue. Playing small ball isn't going to make our starting pitchers avoid the big inning. We've had a lot of 2 men on situations lately, and the only time we really cashed in on it was PK's 3 run homer vs Detroit.

[Baines3]

We can't leave runners in scoring position to end an inning. We're only 3 games out of 3rd place, we need to snap out of this.

[Maverick0984]

we just need to improve in every category basically.

Edited July 22, 2006 by Maverick0984

[Chisoxfn]

No reason to beat a dead horse since we can all see that this team just isn't playing worth a damn right now. (By that I mean this isn't a thread to bash the team.) So what's going to be the turning point that shifts things the other way? Will it be some late inning heroics? A big time trade? A return back to fundamentals and Ozzie-ball?

 

Personally I think it'll have to involve a big trade involving pitching. I think the pitching is starting to cause the hitters to press since they are having to always come back from deficits. We either need to get someone solid for the pen so we can move McCarthy into the rotation or somehow acquire another starter. The first option seems more likely but you never know with Kenny. By fixing/improving the pitching staff I believe there will be less added pressures for the offense to perform.

Quality Starts

[stretchstretch]

I completely agree that the approach of the hitters needs to change but don't you think the pitching is putting us into too many holes, causing the hitters to press? Our staff ERA is miserable, especially the starters.

 

 

Yes, but if our O can start jumping on people with 4 run innings early, that consist of bunts, singles, stolen bases, and a mix of extra base hits, it will their offense pressing, chasing balls out of the zone for whiffs, infield popups and dribbles back to the mound....you know, the way we previously watch this team blow up to the second best record in the game, the best in the game all of last year, and an 11-1 postseason. Konerko's three run jacks in the first inning against LAA last year, the AJ squeeze play in the ninth against beantown, and so on. We keep however trying to hold a 1-0 lead through the fifth, and always end up playing catchup in innings 6-9

 

Bottom line is that WE ARE TOO GOOD OFFENSIVELY TO BE ENDING WITH BOXSCORES WHERE WE HAVE AS MANY HITS AS THE OTHER TEAM BUT A THIRD OF THE RUNS. Fixing the little things puts us WAY ahead and makes us what we were in the first half and most of last year

[Big Hurtin]

What the team needs:

[Wanne]

Obvioiusly the starting pitching needs to improve....but mostly what's killed them is one truly bad inning. Keeping the focus I'd say. The hitters...just need to relax and start having some fun again. I agree with you guys saying to stop swinging for the damn fences every time up.

[stretchstretch]

Bunting is not the issue, getting hits with RISP is the big issue. Playing small ball isn't going to make our starting pitchers avoid the big inning. We've had a lot of 2 men on situations lately, and the only time we really cashed in on it was PK's 3 run homer vs Detroit.

 

 

Stop talking about pitching, and realize that our LOB is horrific and is the cure to our pitching woes. Through 3 innings we already have 6 LOB and walks, strikouts, and popups has been all the production from 3-4-5, when a hit from any one of them would have put us on the board........

[Chisoxfn]

Stop talking about pitching, and realize that our LOB is horrific and is the cure to our pitching woes. Through 3 innings we already have 6 LOB and walks, strikouts, and popups has been all the production from 3-4-5, when a hit from any one of them would have put us on the board........

And how many times did the bats save the offense. Its time for the pitching to do the same and in no time both the offense and rotation will be clicking on all cylinders and people will forget all about this little stretch.