Ozzie has lost his way

[Gregory Pratt]

Try .372.

 

But Ozzie doesn't look at stats -- he goes with his gut!

 

Because it worked so well with Neal Cotts against Texas.

 

I am, also, sick of Ozzie's poor managing, but I'd imagine that every manager makes a ton of mistakes in hindsight, and even a few that you know are dumb at the moment.

 

I don't think there's a revolt going on, but if there is, and that's causing the slump, then the players need to shut up and play, whatever their beef with Ozzie. They're still a team, even if they don't like him, although I highly doubt that's the case.

[Rowand44]

But Ozzie doesn't look at stats -- he goes with his gut!

 

Because it worked so well with Neal Cotts against Texas.

I know you're being sarcastic but it's not even about looking at stats, that move was common sense imo. Seemed like an obvious decision to me, but I guess I was wrong. Anyways, I think I've b****ed enough about everything, so I'll let it go now.

[Gregory Pratt]

I know you're being sarcastic but it's not even about looking at stats, that move was common sense imo. Seemed like an obvious decision to me, but I guess I was wrong. Anyways, I think I've b****ed enough about everything, so I'll let it go now.

 

Oh I agree that it'd be common sense to bring in Cotts or Thornton at that time (I'd seriously prefer Thornton, though).

 

You know, I just don't trust Cotts anymore to get out the big lefty.

 

Or, I do, but in a tight ballgame, I'd prefer Matt, if that makes sense.

[retro1983hat]

Ozzie flat-out mismanaged this game. Pitching to the best hitter in baseball with first base open. Dumb!

This team thinks that because they held off the Indians by the skin of their teeth last year that they can just turn it around any time they want. The division is close to being over and by the weekend we could be in third in the wild card.

[LosMediasBlancas]

I have no problem with the way Ozzie handles the starters. We all know his philosophy: Here's the ball, if you get in trouble, pitch your way out of it, I'll be in the dugout and won't bail your ass out, see you in the 8th inning.

It worked last year, but since so far this year the starters haven't pulled their end, it's bad startegy on Ozzie's part???

[Steff]

Pssh, you know this answer.

 

 

I know, I'm just curious what the official excuse was. This "God" complex is getting out of hand. It's going to blow up soon, and it aint going to be pretty.

[Rowand44]

I know, I'm just curious what the official excuse was. This "God" complex is getting out of hand. It's going to blow up soon, and it aint going to be pretty.

Very soon.

[StrangeSox]

I have no problem with the way Ozzie handles the starters. We all know his philosophy: Here's the ball, if you get in trouble, pitch your way out of it, I'll be in the dugout and won't bail your ass out, see you in the 8th inning.

It worked last year, but since so far this year the starters haven't pulled their end, it's bad startegy on Ozzie's part???

 

Uh, yes it is, because it isn't working and its costing the Sox games. Why stick with a strategy that has proven, time and again, it won't work this year.

 

If you know your starter melts down in the 6th once some runners get on, PULL HIM before that happens or when you see the first sign of it. Its the end of July, and if we just let them "work it out" we'll be out of the WC race by the end of August.

[LosMediasBlancas]

Uh, yes it is, because it isn't working and its costing the Sox games. Why stick with a strategy that has proven, time and again, it won't work this year.

 

If you know your starter melts down in the 6th once some runners get on, PULL HIM before that happens or when you see the first sign of it. Its the end of July, and if we just let them "work it out" we'll be out of the WC race by the end of August.

 

What do you think that does to a guy's confidence in the big picture? Pretty soon his 'big' inning becomes the 4th, then the 3rd.....

[DBAHO]

Don't forget that the Sox are 9th in the AL in bullpen ERA either, so replacing a SP earlier with a reliever ain't necessarily the best strategy when your relievers aren't having the best years. And hence why KW has brought in MacDougall and Riske this season so far.

 

Don't know what is up with Cottsy lately, given up a couple of jacks, but before he was showing pretty good form, hopefully it's just a couple of bad games he's going through.

 

Ozzie has faith in his SP's to get the job done. When Jon Garland was struggling earlier in the season, people might have said he was being left in the games too long, but look at Jon now. His confidence will have definitely been higher knowing that Ozzie has faith in him throwing at least 6-7 innings.

[LosMediasBlancas]

Don't forget that the Sox are 9th in the AL in bullpen ERA either, so replacing a SP earlier with a reliever ain't necessarily the best strategy when your relievers aren't having the best years. And hence why KW has brought in MacDougall and Riske this season so far.

 

Don't know what is up with Cottsy lately, given up a couple of jacks, but before he was showing pretty good form, hopefully it's just a couple of bad games he's going through.

 

Ozzie has faith in his SP's to get the job done. When Jon Garland was struggling earlier in the season, people might have said he was being left in the games too long, but look at Jon now. His confidence will have definitely been higher knowing that Ozzie has faith in him throwing at least 6-7 innings.

 

.......not only is our pen not always the answer, but a reasonable trade for another starter is probably not the answer either. You've heard the cliches a million times before, live by the sword, die by the sword, you've gotta dance with the girl that got you to the party etc......

[StrangeSox]

What do you think that does to a guy's confidence in the big picture? Pretty soon his 'big' inning becomes the 4th, then the 3rd.....

 

What does leaving him in for his inevitable big inning in crucial games against divisional/wildcard rivals do to the Sox' playoff chances?

[fathom]

Don't know what is up with Cottsy lately, given up a couple of jacks, but before he was showing pretty good form, hopefully it's just a couple of bad games he's going through.

 

Live by the high fastball, die by the high fastball. It's amazing he only gave up one homer last season throwing so many high fastballs. It would probably help Cotts lengthen his career if he can start developing a 2nd and 3rd pitch.

[Hangar18]

Uh, yes it is, because it isn't working and its costing the Sox games. Why stick with a strategy that has proven, time and again, it won't work this year.

 

If you know your starter melts down in the 6th once some runners get on, PULL HIM before that happens or when you see the first sign of it. Its the end of July, and if we just let them "work it out" we'll be out of the WC race by the end of August.

 

 

EXCELLENT POST. Vazquez, and by extension Ozzie, has cost the SOX at least 5 games in just his starts.

All the games were "winnable", but Oz and his questionable use of giving Vazquez enough rope to hang himself twice is ridiculous. We could not afford to be doing that, and instead of the SOX being 2 games in first or even tied, we are now 7.5 games out and sliding. We should never have been in this position.

If we know Vazquez is brutal, use him in the bullpen, get his confidence back slowly but surely.

 

It would probably help Cotts lengthen his career if he can start developing a 2nd and 3rd pitch.

 

Or simply not letting the best hitter on the other team beat you. I cant believe they pitched to Mauer .....

[Steff]

Uh, yes it is, because it isn't working and its costing the Sox games. Why stick with a strategy that has proven, time and again, it won't work this year.

 

If you know your starter melts down in the 6th once some runners get on, PULL HIM before that happens or when you see the first sign of it. Its the end of July, and if we just let them "work it out" we'll be out of the WC race by the end of August.

 

 

It's not just with the pitchers. This team is geting angry. Oz better straighten out his approach or he's going to be in a world of trouble.

[DBAHO]

What does leaving him in for his inevitable big inning in crucial games against divisional/wildcard rivals do to the Sox' playoff chances?

You've got to have faith that he'll eventually get it straightened out.

 

You can't just pull Vazquez after pitching 5 scoreless innings. It ruins his confidence, and you use your bullpen more, which could tire them out, for when you really need them.

 

Jon Garland had this exact same problem in 2004. He got it straightened out eventually, and we've all seen what he can do when he's on.

 

Live by the high fastball, die by the high fastball. It's amazing he only gave up one homer last season throwing so many high fastballs. It would probably help Cotts lengthen his career if he can start developing a 2nd and 3rd pitch.

Probably because last season he sort of burst onto the scene a bit, by getting the control aspect of his pitching right.

 

That fastball isn't going to blow hitters away but it's deceptive. But now that hitters have seen it a few times, that know what's coming, and it can be hittable.

 

He's still a very good set-up pitcher, but like you said, maybe get him to work more on his off - speed stuff this off-season.

[southsideirish71]

Ozzie's stupid decisions speak for themselves. His handling of SP's and the bullpen is indefensible. He stubbornly sticks with SP's for too long and makes poor bullpen usage decisions. And those screw ups are leading directly to losses. It isn't all Ozzie, but his horrible in-game decision making is losing this team games. And it is no defense of his horrible decisions to point to the championship. His in-game decisions didn't win us that championship. And they may well be a big reason for why we don't even get to the playoffs this year.

 

 

Well between Ozzies handling of pitching which has been poor for a long time, his over insistance in resting starters(especially in the middle of a pennant race with your primary rivals), and his partner in crime who keeps waving our slowest runners around time and time again so they are meat by at least 10 feet its insane. I am sick of it takes a perfect throw to get the runner. No it doesnt take a perfect throw to throw out Konerko when you get the ball in short left field and wheels hasnt even rounded third. In fact like last Friday you can have a throw up the line and stil have time to tag out our slow catcher. Ozzie needs to realize that Javier is a 5 inning pitcher. You cant make him into what you want, unless you want to give up on the season.

[StrangeSox]

You've got to have faith that he'll eventually get it straightened out.

 

You can't just pull Vazquez after pitching 5 scoreless innings. It ruins his confidence, and you use your bullpen more, which could tire them out, for when you really need them.

 

If Vazquez keeps losing games for the Sox, then the bullpen won't be needed anyway.

 

Vaz isn't the only problem on this team, but when he starts you might want to pencil in a loss.

[DBAHO]

If Vazquez keeps losing games for the Sox, then the bullpen won't be needed anyway.

 

Vaz isn't the only problem on this team, but when he starts you might want to pencil in a loss.

Of Javier's last 9 starts (when his ERA has gone up), we've won 5 and lost 4, so I wouldn't pencil in a loss so quickly.

 

My point on the bullpen was that if you rely on them to pitch 4 innings, with the way they have pitched this season, you are probably going to use 3 to 4 guys at least. Then you can't really use those guys the next day.

 

Frankly Coop needs to sit down with Javy and let him know about this 5 inning garbage. Last season it was the opposite for him, he was a bad starter but then settled down into games well. It's all mental with him, and he's got to learn, you can't make mistakes and leave the ball (especially that curveball) up in the zone in crucial situations.

[LVSoxFan]

Steff there's no big drama about why Dye was out. He was getting a day off because he had played a lot and had whiffed four times in the game before.

 

Like Konerko, it was thought that a day off might do him some good.

[southsideirish71]

Steff there's no big drama about why Dye was out. He was getting a day off because he had played a lot and had whiffed four times in the game before.

 

Like Konerko, it was thought that a day off might do him some good.

 

 

Why do you rest him vs your primary competition.

[LVSoxFan]

Oh I see what you're saying.

 

You got me on that one. I'm not sure, though, if when our middle lineup's batting as sporadic as last night, you can blame a lost on not having Dye in there (especially when Uribe and Anderson stepped up).

[StrangeSox]

Of Javier's last 9 starts (when his ERA has gone up), we've won 5 and lost 4, so I wouldn't pencil in a loss so quickly.

 

Here's the scores on those wins:

11-8

8-6

20-6

5-4

8-6

 

The offense is not playing anywhere near the level it was. While I think it will come around, I still don't have confidence in Vaz going out there to win a game. It comes down to whether or not the offense can score 6+, not if he's going to pitch a good game. His ERA over the last 7 is over 7.

 

 

My point on the bullpen was that if you rely on them to pitch 4 innings, with the way they have pitched this season, you are probably going to use 3 to 4 guys at least. Then you can't really use those guys the next day.

 

If we're not going to use McCarthy in the rotation, he can pitch long relief. If he is no more productive than Vaz, then yes, we've got problems.

 

Frankly Coop needs to sit down with Javy and let him know about this 5 inning garbage. Last season it was the opposite for him, he was a bad starter but then settled down into games well. It's all mental with him, and he's got to learn, you can't make mistakes and leave the ball (especially that curveball) up in the zone in crucial situations.

 

time is running short, and there's a reason Vaz has been on 3 teams in 3 years. He is a mental midget.

 

 

Why do you rest him vs your primary competition.

 

Why did the starting lineup play ONCE in the big series against Detriot after the Sox came off a couple of rough series? This was right after the ASB too, so everyone had just had a big break.

[Rowand44]

Steff there's no big drama about why Dye was out. He was getting a day off because he had played a lot and had whiffed four times in the game before.

Incorrect.

[Steff]

Steff there's no big drama about why Dye was out. He was getting a day off because he had played a lot and had whiffed four times in the game before.

Like Konerko, it was thought that a day off might do him some good.

 

 

 

I'm gonna go with what I was told on the matter. But thanks for your info.