fathom Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jul 25, 2006 -> 03:17 AM) Nope this will repeat again. I guarentee that Javy will be cruising through, and will hit the 6th, Ozzie will think he finally got over the hump. And then 7 runs later we lose. I had to follow the game online tonight, and was comforted knowing Ozzie had Cotts warming up in the 6th inning. Will someone please explain to me why he wasn't brought in to face Morneau? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daa84 Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 24, 2006 -> 10:19 PM) I had to follow the game online tonight, and was comforted knowing Ozzie had Cotts warming up in the 6th inning. Will someone please explain to me why he wasn't brought in to face Morneau? eh...i thought letting javy pitch to him was ok...its 2 hours after the fact and i still cannot comprehend how you can ever pitch to anyone batting .380 with 1st base open and 2 outs and guys on second and third....im honestly mystified by that decision....we need to be fair in this city and realize that dusty would be getting a new one torn after doing something like that....ozzie needs to too Edited July 25, 2006 by daa84 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 Ozzie just said the quote that governs his decisions I want to give my starters the best opportunity to win the game. Well thanks Oz, but as the manager maybe you can worry more about geting the team a win. Screw your starters and their personal stats. This is a team game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankensteiner Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 24, 2006 -> 10:19 PM) I had to follow the game online tonight, and was comforted knowing Ozzie had Cotts warming up in the 6th inning. Will someone please explain to me why he wasn't brought in to face Morneau? Because Vazquez wasn't in-line for the win at that point? I'm being completely serious here, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 I really can't blame Ozz. Its hard to listen to the stats that say Javy can't get guys out late in the games, when he throws so dominant and had barely been hit for 5 innings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CYGarland Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 24, 2006 -> 08:19 PM) I had to follow the game online tonight, and was comforted knowing Ozzie had Cotts warming up in the 6th inning. Will someone please explain to me why he wasn't brought in to face Morneau? Maybe Ozzie was waiting for him to give up the 3 run Jack to Mauer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jul 24, 2006 -> 10:23 PM) Ozzie just said the quote that governs his decisions I want to give my starters the best opportunity to win the game. Well thanks Oz, but as the manager maybe you can worry more about geting the team a win. Screw your starters and their personal stats. This is a team game. There is something very wrong with his line of thinking. He should be getting a lot more crap over this line of thinking than he does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 If you have to rely on Javier Vazquez to win a big game for you.........................season over. He is horrid. A couple of things I don't understand. Why did Ozzie have Cotts ready in the 6th, anticipating the collapse, and let Vazquez face Morneau? Another thing that boggles my mind is why when the opposition has runners on first and third, when they have absolutely no intention on throwing to second, do they have a middle infielder covering second? I haven't seen the White Sox throw down in that situation all season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jul 24, 2006 -> 10:23 PM) I really can't blame Ozz. Its hard to listen to the stats that say Javy can't get guys out late in the games, when he throws so dominant and had barely been hit for 5 innings. Jas you have watched the last few starts and all of Javys starts this year. This is not the first time this has happened. Outside of the Royals he has a problem with the 3rd time through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jul 25, 2006 -> 03:23 AM) I really can't blame Ozz. Its hard to listen to the stats that say Javy can't get guys out late in the games, when he throws so dominant and had barely been hit for 5 innings. You and I disagreed on this in the thread, but I think we can both agree that if it's a similar situation in his next start, he needs to get pulled before too much damage can be done. We're facing the Twins bullpen...it's not like the KC bullpen where we can afford to fall behind and then catch up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daa84 Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jul 24, 2006 -> 10:23 PM) I really can't blame Ozz. Its hard to listen to the stats that say Javy can't get guys out late in the games, when he throws so dominant and had barely been hit for 5 innings. i thought he handled vazquez fine tonight, i thought javy only made two really bad pitches tonight...the change to morneau was left up, and he absolutely hung a slider to mauer and got lucky that mauer swung and missed....again, ive said it like 10 times....i still have 0 idea why anyone pitches to mauer in teh situation they did Edited July 25, 2006 by daa84 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 QUOTE(BigSqwert @ Jul 25, 2006 -> 03:25 AM) There is something very wrong with his line of thinking. He should be getting a lot more crap over this line of thinking than he does. The more the Sox lose, the more people will begin to question Ozzie's strategy (in the media). I'm confident in predicting that if this happens, there will be more than one Ozzie media blow-up. Why can't we just win the rest of our games, and let Ozzie look like a genius. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry&JimmyRocked Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 There is not enough pitching on the market for kenny to get that will actually help this team. he's just got to ride it out. 7.5 back? it's time to concentrate on the wild card. the tigers are running away and hiding. we've got a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG summer ahead of us. this team is not in a "funk" there are serious problems that might not get fixed. pitching being the number one. pitching = world series no pitching = possible playoffs/early exit QUOTE(daa84 @ Jul 24, 2006 -> 10:26 PM) i thought he handled vazquez fine tonight, i thought javy only made two really bad pitches tonight...the change to morneau was left up, and he absolutely hung a slider to mauer and got lucky that mauer swung and missed....again, ive said it like 10 times....i still have 0 idea why anyone pitches to mauer in teh situation they did so you're implying the twins got lucky tonight on 2 bad pitches???????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 24, 2006 -> 08:26 PM) You and I disagreed on this in the thread, but I think we can both agree that if it's a similar situation in his next start, he needs to get pulled before too much damage can be done. We're facing the Twins bullpen...it's not like the KC bullpen where we can afford to fall behind and then catch up. I agree, however, I like Ozz am a big fan in sticking with your starters (and for the most part I'd probably manage my starters similar to Ozz with the exception of the ocassional starts where Ozz gets a little high on the pitch counts). But ya, Ithink he's coming out regardless of the situation next time around. However, I think we look at this more closely because he has struggled recently but this isn't a career trend and I do think Javy can buck it. He made adjustments with runners on that seemed to work, problem was Cuddyer hit a pitchers pitch (he was cheating in) and Morneau is a good HR hitter who still hr'd despite getting it off the end of his bat. Honestly and I know a lot of people would hate to see it (and I guess they are happy I am not the mgr) but if he had 5 innings like he had, I wouldn't have done anything differently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CYGarland Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 QUOTE(Harry&JimmyRocked @ Jul 24, 2006 -> 08:27 PM) There is not enough pitching on the market for kenny to get that will actually help this team. he's just got to ride it out. 7.5 back? it's time to concentrate on the wild card. the tigers are running away and hiding. we've got a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG summer ahead of us. this team is not in a "funk" there are serious problems that might not get fixed. pitching being the number one. pitching = world series no pitching = possible playoffs/early exit At this point I'm not worried about winning the division, we just need to hold off the Twins, because right now they look like World beaters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 QUOTE(daa84 @ Jul 24, 2006 -> 10:26 PM) i thought he handled vazquez fine tonight, i thought javy only made two really bad pitches tonight...the change to morneau was left up, and he absolutely hung a slider to mauer and got lucky that mauer swung and missed....again, ive said it like 10 times....i still have 0 idea why anyone pitches to mauer in teh situation they did He only made a few bad pitches against the tigers, and a few bad pitches against X team he imploded past the 5th inning. Here is the formula. When If V > 5i please warm up bullpen, when V >= 6i then start replacement formula. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jul 24, 2006 -> 10:23 PM) I really can't blame Ozz. Its hard to listen to the stats that say Javy can't get guys out late in the games, when he throws so dominant and had barely been hit for 5 innings. Then why have Cotts ready at the beginning of the 6th inning? After the game I was going to commend Ozzie for having him ready although Vazquez was absolutely cruising. I must say, I am at the point where I just can't stand Vazquez and his mental fragility. Its really going to be hard watching him the rest of this season and next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 QUOTE(daa84 @ Jul 24, 2006 -> 08:26 PM) i thought he handled vazquez fine tonight, i thought javy only made two really bad pitches tonight...the change to morneau was left up, and he absolutely hung a slider to mauer and got lucky that mauer swung and missed....again, ive said it like 10 times....i still have 0 idea why anyone pitches to mauer in teh situation they did I completely agree with that. When you are hitting what he is and you got Cuddyer on deck I'm going with the guy thats not hitting .380, especially once your already behind in the count. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Pratt Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 Javy always makes "one or two" bad pitches after tossing a gem for five. That boy needs therapy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jul 24, 2006 -> 08:26 PM) Jas you have watched the last few starts and all of Javys starts this year. This is not the first time this has happened. Outside of the Royals he has a problem with the 3rd time through. See, I think of it more as him having trouble with runners on and it just so happens to be that the bloop hit seems to come later in the game and than he falters. Today he did a better job with runners. Obviously he wasn't perfect, but he really is looking better. I realize I'm in the minority here though and I can't blame you guys for thinking the other way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxHawk1980 Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 Ozzie just said the quote that governs his decisions "I want to give my starters the best opportunity to win the game." What a F'n idiot. I'm sorry, but that is simple stupidity. His every thought should be about how he can help the Sox win the game. Sometimes that means pulling a starter early. Team wins mean a lot more than pitcher wins. But Ozzie will never learn. He does what he does and he is willfully stubborn about not ever changing anything he does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jul 24, 2006 -> 08:29 PM) Then why have Cotts ready at the beginning of the 6th inning? After the game I was going to commend Ozzie for having him ready although Vazquez was absolutely cruising. I must say, I am at the point where I just can't stand Vazquez and his mental fragility. Its really going to be hard watching him the rest of this season and next. I think you got to be careful, but nowhere in that inning did I really see Javy making bad pitches (which is what he was doing with runners on in hte prior games). This time around he just got beat, all you can do is tip your cap. But like I said a few times, i see where you all are coming from and you could very well be right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Pratt Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 He's a nut. Crazy in the coconut! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 Cotts is not exactly Mariano Rivera, either. Why oh why can't Vazzy continue his excellence past five innings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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