Frankensteiner Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 The last thing the Sox need is bullpen pitchers or backup outfielders. We need some frontline talent to either improve this slumping line-up, or to improve our rotation (although I'll be happy if McCarthy is given a spot; that would still require a major move to get rid one of the starters, however). People clamored for an end to Politte and Widger. Done and done. Why aren't we winning? Because bench improvements are marginal improvements and make only small differences, if any, in the standings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toasty Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 QUOTE(Frankensteiner @ Jul 25, 2006 -> 11:30 PM) Why aren't we winning? Because bench improvements are marginal improvements and make only small differences, if any, in the standings. WRONG we arent winning because our pitching aint pitching, and our hitting aint hitting has nothing to do with aquiring bench players or not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox9 Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 First off, I am rather new to posting so bare with me. ESPN insider just made comment that the next 24 hours are critical for the Brewers in becoming a buyer or a seller. In the event of being a seller, Carlos Lee will be considered for a potential trade. With that in mind, 2 corner OF will be on the market which could reduce Soriano's trade value. Question: Could KW be waiting to see if CLee goes on the trade market to lessen the value of Soriano forcing WASH into reducing value favoring the Sox??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmbjeff Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 QUOTE(ChiSox9 @ Jul 26, 2006 -> 10:02 AM) First off, I am rather new to posting so bare with me. ESPN insider just made comment that the next 24 hours are critical for the Brewers in becoming a buyer or a seller. In the event of being a seller, Carlos Lee will be considered for a potential trade. With that in mind, 2 corner OF will be on the market which could reduce Soriano's trade value. Question: Could KW be waiting to see if CLee goes on the trade market to lessen the value of Soriano forcing WASH into reducing value favoring the Sox??? Quite possible. If Caballo is available that drops the Soriano price tag quite a bit actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 QUOTE(ChiSox9 @ Jul 26, 2006 -> 10:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> First off, I am rather new to posting so bare with me. ESPN insider just made comment that the next 24 hours are critical for the Brewers in becoming a buyer or a seller. In the event of being a seller, Carlos Lee will be considered for a potential trade. With that in mind, 2 corner OF will be on the market which could reduce Soriano's trade value. Question: Could KW be waiting to see if CLee goes on the trade market to lessen the value of Soriano forcing WASH into reducing value favoring the Sox??? Would it really bring down Soriano's value? They are pretty much two completely different players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Pratt Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 QUOTE(Frankensteiner @ Jul 25, 2006 -> 11:30 PM) The last thing the Sox need is bullpen pitchers or backup outfielders. We need some frontline talent to either improve this slumping line-up, or to improve our rotation (although I'll be happy if McCarthy is given a spot; that would still require a major move to get rid one of the starters, however). People clamored for an end to Politte and Widger. Done and done. Why aren't we winning? Because bench improvements are marginal improvements and make only small differences, if any, in the standings. No it wouldn't. Vazquez = reliever; McCarthy = starter. All done! Then you trade for Zito, and ship Garcia the hell out of here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 From what I have read, Bowden is holding out for a stud prospect right now and just isn't getting it. He will eventually get it, IMO, it just depends on who flinches first come Saturday/Sunday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxpride77 Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 QUOTE(iamshack @ Jul 26, 2006 -> 10:06 AM) From what I have read, Bowden is holding out for a stud prospect right now and just isn't getting it. He will eventually get it, IMO, it just depends on who flinches first come Saturday/Sunday. I think if this goes until Sat/Sun, Bowden is going to have to settle for less. Not one of the teams Bowden is talking to is offering their stud prospects. If it goes till Sunday, Soriano's trade value drops because Bowden HAS to get rid of him for something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanOfCorn Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 QUOTE(southsideirish @ Jul 26, 2006 -> 10:04 AM) Would it really bring down Soriano's value? They are pretty much two completely different players. yes, they are both power hitting corner outfielders. Soriano, while good this year in the leadoff spot, is not a proto-typical leadoff hitter because his OBP is pretty low. They are both going to be expensive to resign and they both have roughly the same tools, except that Soriano has speed. AND, the Brewers won't be asking for the same parts as the Nats because by that time, all the GMs will know that the Brewers will be shipping CLee out because they couldn't resign him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 QUOTE(iamshack @ Jul 26, 2006 -> 10:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> From what I have read, Bowden is holding out for a stud prospect right now and just isn't getting it. He will eventually get it, IMO, it just depends on who flinches first come Saturday/Sunday. Really? He will? For a 2 month rental? Jayson Stark was on ESPN radio with Mike and Mike this morning and he explained why Bowden is not getting what he is asking for and why he probably wont get it because Soriano is really only a 2 month rental player. There is no assurance any team will be able to re-sign him. I believe you are wrong and Bowden will not get that premier prospect that he wants so badly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox9 Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 CLEE G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OBP SLG AVG 2006 101 384 60 111 18 0 28 81 213 38 39 12 2 .350 .555 .289 SORIANO: G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OBP SLG AVG 2006 99 402 74 115 25 2 31 62 237 43 89 25 7 .360 .590 .286 To me, CLee might be a better choice. About the same HR numbers, way less strike outs by 50, about the same BB just a little less in speed. Plus, CLee IS a natural LF with Great D... Soriano is originally a 2B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Pratt Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 QUOTE(ChiSox9 @ Jul 26, 2006 -> 10:14 AM) CLEE G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OBP SLG AVG 2006 101 384 60 111 18 0 28 81 213 38 39 12 2 .350 .555 .289 SORIANO: G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OBP SLG AVG 2006 99 402 74 115 25 2 31 62 237 43 89 25 7 .360 .590 .286 To me, CLee might be a better choice. About the same HR numbers, way less strike outs by 50, about the same BB just a little less in speed. Plus, CLee IS a natural LF with Great D... Soriano is originally a 2B. Carlos Lee is not coming back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox9 Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jul 26, 2006 -> 03:15 PM) Carlos Lee is not coming back. I am, not asking for him back. I am saying since he is a natural OF, he would be a stronger choice then Soriano for teams needing a corner OF. Which, in turn, i would believe the entering of CLee to the trade market could potentially decrease Soriano's trade value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxpride77 Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 QUOTE(southsideirish @ Jul 26, 2006 -> 10:10 AM) Really? He will? For a 2 month rental? Jayson Stark was on ESPN radio with Mike and Mike this morning and he explained why Bowden is not getting what he is asking for and why he probably wont get it because Soriano is really only a 2 month rental player. There is no assurance any team will be able to re-sign him. I believe you are wrong and Bowden will not get that premier prospect that he wants so badly. Exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(southsideirish @ Jul 26, 2006 -> 10:10 AM) Really? He will? For a 2 month rental? Jayson Stark was on ESPN radio with Mike and Mike this morning and he explained why Bowden is not getting what he is asking for and why he probably wont get it because Soriano is really only a 2 month rental player. There is no assurance any team will be able to re-sign him. I believe you are wrong and Bowden will not get that premier prospect that he wants so badly. It is certainly within your rights to disagree with my opinion. I guess we will have to wait and see. And if that is the case, and you prove to be right, I believe Soriano will be wearing a Sox uniform early next week. Edited July 26, 2006 by iamshack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankensteiner Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jul 26, 2006 -> 10:04 AM) No it wouldn't. Vazquez = reliever; McCarthy = starter. All done! Not as long as Ozzie = manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G&T Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 QUOTE(ChiSox9 @ Jul 26, 2006 -> 10:18 AM) I am, not asking for him back. I am saying since he is a natural OF, he would be a stronger choice then Soriano for teams needing a corner OF. Which, in turn, i would believe the entering of CLee to the trade market could potentially decrease Soriano's trade value. CLee is a converted third baseman if memory serves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox9 Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 QUOTE(G&T @ Jul 26, 2006 -> 03:40 PM) CLee is a converted third baseman if memory serves. He was a third baseman in minor league ball. Played 5 games for the Sox at 1st in 1999 and was a normal outfielder ever since. He has 6 years of OF service under his belt whereas Soriano was just moved to LF this season. I think if a team is looking to get a solid LF with proven experience then CLee would be the way to go. Not saying that I want the Sox to get him, but be it that he is the solid OF, in turn i believe he would decrease SOriano's trade value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toasty Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 QUOTE(ChiSox9 @ Jul 26, 2006 -> 10:46 AM) He was a third baseman in minor league ball. Played 5 games for the Sox at 1st in 1999 and was a normal outfielder ever since. He has 6 years of OF service under his belt whereas Soriano was just moved to LF this season. I think if a team is looking to get a solid LF with proven experience then CLee would be the way to go. Not saying that I want the Sox to get him, but be it that he is the solid OF, in turn i believe he would decrease SOriano's trade value. not picking on you, specifically, but there is not ONE chance that CLee plays another game in a sox uni, until ozzie is no longer manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmbjeff Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 QUOTE(ChiSox9 @ Jul 26, 2006 -> 10:14 AM) CLEE G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OBP SLG AVG 2006 101 384 60 111 18 0 28 81 213 38 39 12 2 .350 .555 .289 SORIANO: G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OBP SLG AVG 2006 99 402 74 115 25 2 31 62 237 43 89 25 7 .360 .590 .286 To me, CLee might be a better choice. About the same HR numbers, way less strike outs by 50, about the same BB just a little less in speed. Plus, CLee IS a natural LF with Great D... Soriano is originally a 2B. CLee has great D? Are you serious? He throws lollypops back to the infield, doesn't cover much ground. You might be able to say he has very few errors, but that goes for any OF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(dmbjeff @ Jul 26, 2006 -> 09:21 AM) CLee has great D? Are you serious? He throws lollypops back to the infield, doesn't cover much ground. You might be able to say he has very few errors, but that goes for any OF. In terms of qualified Left Fielders playing defense, here are your bottom 5 in MLB (in order): NAME GP GS INN TC PO A E DP FPCT RF ZR Carlos Lee, Mil 97 96 826.1 151 143 4 4 0 .974 1.60 .845 Scott Podsednik, CWS 90 80 735.0 174 166 2 6 0 .966 2.06 .871 Alfonso Soriano, Was 98 98 857.2 215 194 13 8 4 .963 2.17 .841 Josh Willingham, Fla 75 74 617.0 123 115 3 5 0 .959 1.72 .771 Adam Dunn, Cin 96 96 825.2 188 174 5 9 0 .952 1.95 .793 Edited July 26, 2006 by Balta1701 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox9 Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 QUOTE(toasty @ Jul 26, 2006 -> 04:21 PM) not picking on you, specifically, but there is not ONE chance that CLee plays another game in a sox uni, until ozzie is no longer manager. Like i had mentioned in 2 posts... i wouldnt want CLee back moreso to decrease the trade value of Soriano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klaus kinski Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 This is dragging on-usually not a good sign Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 26, 2006 -> 10:24 AM) In terms of qualified Left Fielders playing defense, here are your bottom 5 in MLB (in order): Fielding percentage is really not an accurate way to measure outfield defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted July 27, 2006 Share Posted July 27, 2006 QUOTE(Jake @ Jul 26, 2006 -> 05:17 PM) Fielding percentage is really not an accurate way to measure outfield defense. It seems to be fairly accurate in this case. I'd definitely rank Dunn, Pods, Lee, and Soriano all in the bottom 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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