wilmot825 Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 We have seen how Javi is great for 5innings and then after is a human time bomb. I think it's McCarthy's time to go into the rotation. Look at it this way, it can't get any worse...right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 how innovative... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobDylan Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 This is the first time I've heard this idea. I'm blown away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 Love you, love the show Long time listener, first-time caller. .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABearSoX Posted July 29, 2006 Share Posted July 29, 2006 hahahaha, I said this to my Yankee fan friend....... He just laughed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baines3 Posted July 29, 2006 Share Posted July 29, 2006 I agree with the idea. I've thought of it for quite some time, Bmac in the starting rotation couldn't be any worse than Vazquez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 29, 2006 Share Posted July 29, 2006 Vazquez is not the guy that should be replaced. He at least has hope since the stuff is there. Before we even consider moving Vaz, you better find someone better than the Garcia and Buehrle of 06. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted July 29, 2006 Share Posted July 29, 2006 QUOTE(BobDylan @ Jul 28, 2006 -> 05:56 PM) This is the first time I've heard this idea. I'm blown away. LMAO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 29, 2006 Share Posted July 29, 2006 So where did my post on this topic go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrunkBomber Posted July 29, 2006 Share Posted July 29, 2006 Maybe just let them pitch as a team, Vasquez 1 through 5 then BMac till the 8th then the Jenksy cat comes in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 29, 2006 Share Posted July 29, 2006 QUOTE(DrunkBomber @ Jul 29, 2006 -> 12:23 AM) Maybe just let them pitch as a team, Vasquez 1 through 5 then BMac till the 8th then the Jenksy cat comes in. That's been mentioned before as well, but that type of strategy is usually used in a case like one if McCarthy was moved into the rotation but we likely only throw 4-5 innings for his first few starts so you would put in Vasquez to finish it out. This is known as "piggybacking." It's not a longterm fix for the Vazquez problem though, you can't take away another bullpen arm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeman89 Posted July 29, 2006 Share Posted July 29, 2006 yeah where'd you come up with this great idea? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoota Posted July 30, 2006 Share Posted July 30, 2006 (edited) How does this reflect on Ozzie Guillen that this simple change which would improve the team is so obvious to us fans, yet he refuses to do it? Edited July 30, 2006 by shoota Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S720 Posted July 30, 2006 Share Posted July 30, 2006 QUOTE(shoota @ Jul 29, 2006 -> 10:19 PM) How does this reflect on Ozzie Guillen that this simple change which would improve the team is so obvious to us fans, yet he refuses to do it? That tells us we know nothing! Stop being an arm-chaired manager, and let Ozzie do his job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted July 30, 2006 Share Posted July 30, 2006 QUOTE(S720 @ Jul 29, 2006 -> 10:34 PM) That tells us we know nothing! Stop being an arm-chaired manager, and let Ozzie do his job. If we banned arm chair managing/GMing from the site there would basically be no point in even comming here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 30, 2006 Share Posted July 30, 2006 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 29, 2006 -> 09:37 PM) If we banned arm chair managing/GMing from the site there would basically be no point in even comming here. Yeah, and it seems we've been slow as of late as it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoota Posted July 30, 2006 Share Posted July 30, 2006 QUOTE(S720 @ Jul 29, 2006 -> 10:34 PM) That tells us we know nothing! Stop being an arm-chaired manager, and let Ozzie do his job. What makes you believe it'd be a bad decision to switch the pitching roles of Vazquez and McCarthy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted July 30, 2006 Share Posted July 30, 2006 QUOTE(shoota @ Jul 30, 2006 -> 04:54 PM) What makes you believe it'd be a bad decision to switch the pitching roles of Vazquez and McCarthy? Because you don't pay around $10M for a guy to be basically a long reliever who's hardly used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted July 30, 2006 Share Posted July 30, 2006 QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jul 30, 2006 -> 02:00 AM) Because you don't pay around $10M for a guy to be basically a long reliever who's hardly used. Exactly! There is a chance they can still get inside of Javy's head and turn him around ala Contreras. If they put him the pen, they've a $10M long reliever they'd never be able to trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 30, 2006 Share Posted July 30, 2006 I don't know why many assume BMac would suddenly be way better than Vazzy. Can't you picture BMac going 5 strong innings like Vazzy and getting lit up in the sixth also? Garland sucked big time his first few seasons. Watching Bmac pitch this year I don't sense a ton of zeros on the board. Sounds like the deal where the first team quarterback is spiffty and the fans are calling for the unknown. Once he gets in, the backup isn't always the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawnhillegas Posted July 30, 2006 Share Posted July 30, 2006 QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Jul 28, 2006 -> 04:59 PM) Love you, love the show Long time listener, first-time caller. .... HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoota Posted July 30, 2006 Share Posted July 30, 2006 QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jul 30, 2006 -> 02:00 AM) Because you don't pay around $10M for a guy to be basically a long reliever who's hardly used. That's a ridiculous argument. If the Sox were likely to win more games with each man's role switched, how could you not support the change? QUOTE(YASNY @ Jul 30, 2006 -> 02:04 AM) Exactly! There is a chance they can still get inside of Javy's head and turn him around ala Contreras. If they put him the pen, they've a $10M long reliever they'd never be able to trade. Since the trading deadline is two days' away, your second point is irrelevant. And your first point is false groupthink because Vazquez has never been as good of a pitcher as Contreras pre-2005. QUOTE(greg775 @ Jul 30, 2006 -> 03:02 AM) I don't know why many assume BMac would suddenly be way better than Vazzy. Can't you picture BMac going 5 strong innings like Vazzy and getting lit up in the sixth also? Garland sucked big time his first few seasons. Watching Bmac pitch this year I don't sense a ton of zeros on the board. Sounds like the deal where the first team quarterback is spiffty and the fans are calling for the unknown. Once he gets in, the backup isn't always the answer. Don't look only at the starting performances of both men. Also look at how Vazquez would perform in the bullpen. Since he dominates hitters the first two times through a lineup, his numbers suggest he'd be an excellent long man. Vazquez could likely be the better bullpen pitcher than McCarthy while McCarthy could likely be the better starting pitcher. The Sox could upgrade their starting rotation and bullpen by adjusting their current talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted July 30, 2006 Share Posted July 30, 2006 (edited) There is no doubt in my mind that Bmac would be a better starter than Vaz at the moment, hell I don't think it'd even be close. That being said, Vaz would be a god awful reliever imo. I know his numbers are good early in games but coming out of the pen, he'd be put in high pressure situations right away and that would lead me to believe he'd get absolutely rocked there as well. QUOTE(greg775 @ Jul 30, 2006 -> 03:02 AM) I don't know why many assume BMac would suddenly be way better than Vazzy. Can't you picture BMac going 5 strong innings like Vazzy and getting lit up in the sixth also? Garland sucked big time his first few seasons. Watching Bmac pitch this year I don't sense a ton of zeros on the board. Sounds like the deal where the first team quarterback is spiffty and the fans are calling for the unknown. Once he gets in, the backup isn't always the answer. Brandon has already had better pitcher performances in more big games than Javy ever has. Edited July 30, 2006 by Rowand44 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted July 30, 2006 Share Posted July 30, 2006 QUOTE(shoota @ Jul 30, 2006 -> 08:13 PM) That's a ridiculous argument. If the Sox were likely to win more games with each man's role switched, how could you not support the change? Since the trading deadline is two days' away, your second point is irrelevant. And your first point is false groupthink because Vazquez has never been as good of a pitcher as Contreras pre-2005. Don't look only at the starting performances of both men. Also look at how Vazquez would perform in the bullpen. Since he dominates hitters the first two times through a lineup, his numbers suggest he'd be an excellent long man. Vazquez could likely be the better bullpen pitcher than McCarthy while McCarthy could likely be the better starting pitcher. The Sox could upgrade their starting rotation and bullpen by adjusting their current talent. You also have think about the long - term and not only the short - term here. Like YAS said if you move Vaz to the pen, you're stuck with him there for the next few seasons and his confidence will be shattered. And how often would you actually use him out of the pen? Look at how Ozzie uses B-Mac right now. We didn't trade Chris Young just so we would be stuck with a long reliever with a terrible contract. If Vaz is going to be out of this rotation, it'll be at the end of the season as part of a trade to open up a spot for B-Mac. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted July 30, 2006 Share Posted July 30, 2006 QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jul 30, 2006 -> 07:27 AM) You also have think about the long - term and not only the short - term here. Like YAS said if you move Vaz to the pen, you're stuck with him there for the next few seasons and his confidence will be shattered. And how often would you actually use him out of the pen? Look at how Ozzie uses B-Mac right now. We didn't trade Chris Young just so we would be stuck with a long reliever with a terrible contract. If Vaz is going to be out of this rotation, it'll be at the end of the season as part of a trade to open up a spot for B-Mac. To expand on your remarks and rebut shoota's... Vaz and Contreras are very comparable as they are both pitchers with great 'stuff' and were underperforming. The trade deadline is a weak argument because Cooper has contributed to the mental aspects of the game for Contreras as well as Garland. It takes time to accomplish that, and if the Sox just dump Vazquez without giving him every opportunity, then they gave away Young for nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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