I have an idea for pitching....

[shoota]

You also have think about the long - term and not only the short - term here.

 

Like YAS said if you move Vaz to the pen, you're stuck with him there for the next few seasons and his confidence will be shattered. And how often would you actually use him out of the pen? Look at how Ozzie uses B-Mac right now.

 

We didn't trade Chris Young just so we would be stuck with a long reliever with a terrible contract.

 

If Vaz is going to be out of this rotation, it'll be at the end of the season as part of a trade to open up a spot for B-Mac.

 

You and YASNY are using backwards logic to support your want to keep Vazquez in the rotation. Chris Young is already gone and Vazquez's contract cannot be changed, so these two past events should have no influence on how Javier Vazquez is used by the White Sox. Now that he's on the team, he should be used in whatever manner helps the Sox win the most games. You cannot disagree with that.

 

To expand on your remarks and rebut shoota's...

 

Vaz and Contreras are very comparable as they are both pitchers with great 'stuff' and were underperforming. The trade deadline is a weak argument because Cooper has contributed to the mental aspects of the game for Contreras as well as Garland. It takes time to accomplish that, and if the Sox just dump Vazquez without giving him every opportunity, then they gave away Young for nothing.

 

The trade deadline argument is yours: "If they put him the pen, they've a $10M long reliever they'd never be able to trade." I simply disproved your faulty thinking: "Since the trading deadline is two days' away, your second point is irrelevant."

[YASNY]

You and YASNY are using backwards logic to support your want to keep Vazquez in the rotation. Chris Young is already gone and Vazquez's contract cannot be changed, so these two past events should have no influence on how Javier Vazquez is used by the White Sox. Now that he's on the team, he should be used in whatever manner helps the Sox win the most games. You cannot disagree with that.

The trade deadline argument is yours: "If they put him the pen, they've a $10M long reliever they'd never be able to trade." I simply disproved your faulty thinking: "Since the trading deadline is two days' away, your second point is irrelevant."

 

You didn't disprove squat. You suggested putting him in the pen and I told you why that idea was worth spiff.

[shoota]

You didn't disprove squat. You suggested putting him in the pen and I told you why that idea was worth spiff.

 

Nowhere in your defense of Vazquez did you use his performance to prove that he's a better option than Brandon McCarthy in the rotation. You only used reasons like his salary and high cost used to acquire him.

 

Very telling.

[YASNY]

Nowhere in your defense of Vazquez did you use his performance to prove that he's a better option than Brandon McCarthy in the rotation. You only used reasons like his salary and high cost used to acquire him.

 

Very telling.

 

His performance isn't the issue. His cost and potential value in the future are the reasons they cannot put him in the pen.

[shoota]

His performance isn't the issue. His cost and potential value in the future are the reasons they cannot put him in the pen.

 

This is heart of our differing opinions. I believe his performance is the reason he and McCarthy should switch roles and I'm willing to sacrifice his future trade value for an improved 2006 team. I'm not concerned with Vazquez's salary since he will be paid the same no matter what role he pitches. I care more about winning than I do saving face.

Edited July 31, 2006 by shoota

[Shamrock4Life]

why not move garcia to the pen and just go with 4 starters. put a pitch count of 80 on your starters and see what that gives you. gives you an extra arm in the pen without giving up a roster spot for a bench player.

 

or you can just pull vaz after 5 like a normal person would do.