Zito?

[Jake]

The only way I see Vazquez heading to Oakland is if we're prepared to pick up a significant chunk of his contract. Small market A's aren't going to want a $12M bust.

 

Well the DBacks and Yankees are picking up half of his contract for next year, we throw in a couple more million and he turns into a $4M bust.

[Jordan4life_2007]

So we let the season go down the toilet because we're not willing to part with a couple of prospects? How many chances are we going to get with this team?

 

The only way I see Vazquez heading to Oakland is if we're prepared to pick up a significant chunk of his contract. Small market A's aren't going to want a $12M bust.

 

I don't give two spiffs about Vazquez. I do, however, have a problem with giving up a top prospect for a guy that will more than likely have for only two months. I'd feel differently if it was basically a guarantee that we would get into the playoffs. This team has multiple holes right now. One trade is not gonna fix all the spiff wrong with this team.

 

You would not be freeing up any money, the Sox would have to pick up most all of either's contract. Plus you're more than likely sending Fields/McCarthy to Oakland, you have to top a package that is centered around Milledge and basically that's the only way you're going to do it.

 

Thank you.

[Kalapse]

Well the DBacks and Yankees are picking up half of his contract for next year, we throw in a couple more million and he turns into a $4M bust.

That is not true, Arizona kept a large portion of the cash they received from the Yankees and sent $4M to the Sox. Vazquez' contract goes with him, there is no cash attached to it, that needs to be negotiated as part of the trade.

[Frankensteiner]

You would not be freeing up any money, the Sox would have to pick up most all of either's contract. Plus you're more than likely sending Fields/McCarthy to Oakland, you have to top a package that is centered around Milledge and basically that's the only way you're going to do it.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if they're asking us to also take on some of their bad contracts, something like Kotsay-Zito for Anderson-Fields-Vazquez-Broadway-cash. Kotsay's been real bad this year.

 

I don't give two spiffs about Vazquez. I do, however, have a problem with giving up a top prospect for a guy that will more than likely have for only two months. I'd feel differently if it was basically a guarantee that we would get into the playoffs. This team has multiple holes right now. One trade is not gonna fix all the spiff wrong with this team.

 

I disagree there. Replace Vazquez with Zito and we're the best wild card contender, on paper anyways.

[Kalapse]

I wouldn't be surprised if they're asking us to also take on some of their bad contracts, something like Kotsay-Zito for Anderson-Fields-Vazquez-Broadway-cash. Kotsay's been real bad this year.

And that trade would be insanely counterproductive to the future of this ballclub, the Sox would be eating a spiff load of money and giving up 3 top prospects for a mediocre centerfielder and a 2 month rental player with a 3.61 ERA and a 1.34 WHIP that is hardly a shutdown starter, those are Buehrlesque numbers except with an insanely inflated WHIP.

 

Zito is not a great SP.

[BobDylan]

You would not be freeing up any money, the Sox would have to pick up most all of either's contract. Plus you're more than likely sending Fields/McCarthy to Oakland, you have to top a package that is centered around Milledge and basically that's the only way you're going to do it.

 

Then it comes down to making any package that doesn't include McCarthy. Plus I don't think money is really a big issue anymore.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I wouldn't be surprised if they're asking us to also take on some of their bad contracts, something like Kotsay-Zito for Anderson-Fields-Vazquez-Broadway-cash. Kotsay's been real bad this year.

I disagree there. Replace Vazquez with Zito and we're the best wild card contender, on paper anyways.

 

When will people realize that 2002 was 4 years ago? Zito is not THAT good. He's good. He's just not that good anymore. Yes, he would be an upgrade over Javy (not saying much). But you still have Buehrle and to a lesser extent Garcia struggling. And it now looks like the bullpen is starting to struggle some. If we could sign Zito long term, I'd give up anybody outside of McCarthy and Anderson for him. I doubt we'd be able to, though.

[Frankensteiner]

When will people realize that 2002 was 4 years ago? Zito is not THAT good. He's good. He's just not that good anymore. Yes, he would be an upgrade over Javy (not saying much). But you still have Buehrle and to a lesser extent Garcia struggling. And it now looks like the bullpen is starting to struggle some. If we could sign Zito long term, I'd give up anybody outside of McCarthy and Anderson for him. I doubt we'd be able to, though.

 

Zito is 10th in the AL in ERA. That's very good. Zito would instantly be our 2nd best starter. I wouldn't give up Anderson and McCarthy for him either, but anyone else is fair game as far as I'm concerned. With Crede here, Josh Fields can help us the most by serving as a trading chip. Broadway is projected as a 3rd or 4th starter, and I thought part of the rationale for that selection was to develop him quickly and use him to acquire parts for the ML team.

 

As far as Zito's free agent status, I think we would have money to re-sign him if we wanted to do so.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Zito is 10th in the AL in ERA. That's very good. Zito would instantly be our 2nd best starter. I wouldn't give up Anderson and McCarthy for him either, but anyone else is fair game as far as I'm concerned. With Crede here, Josh Fields can help us the most by serving as a trading chip. Broadway is projected as a 3rd or 4th starter, and I thought part of the rationale for that selection was to develop him quickly and use him to acquire parts for the ML team.

 

Sorry, you just don't trade your best position prospect for two months of a guy who's been slightly above average at best since 2002. It would look even more stupid if we ended up missing the playoffs (a real possibility). Broadway is argubly our best pitching prospect right now (I know Flash is laughing somewhere). You still don't trade him for a 2 month rental.

 

As far as Zito's free agent status, I think we would have money to re-sign him if we wanted to do so.

 

You know who his agent is, correct?

[fathom]

As far as Zito's free agent status, I think we would have money to re-sign him if we wanted to do so.

 

The way things look now, we're not going to have much money at all to spend to upgrade the team. I believe we already have about 100 million locked up in 13 players.

[Kalapse]

Zito is 10th in the AL in ERA. That's very good. Zito would instantly be our 2nd best starter. I wouldn't give up Anderson and McCarthy for him either, but anyone else is fair game as far as I'm concerned. With Crede here, Josh Fields can help us the most by serving as a trading chip. Broadway is projected as a 3rd or 4th starter, and I thought part of the rationale for that selection was to develop him quickly and use him to acquire parts for the ML team.

 

As far as Zito's free agent status, I think we would have money to re-sign him if we wanted to do so.

Zito's AL Ranks:

 

ERA: 10th

WHIP 24th

K/BB: 39th

BBA: 11th

OBA: 36th

SO: 14th

 

And he's allowed the second most BBs (67) in all of the American League, only Daniel Cabrera has walked more batters.

 

He is not the same pitcher he was in 2002. He has MAJOR control problems now a days.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Zito's AL Ranks:

 

ERA: 10th

WHIP 24th

K/BB: 39th

BBA: 11th

OBA: 36th

SO: 14th

 

And he's allowed the second most BBs (67) in all of the American League, only Daniel Cabrera has walked more batters.

 

He is not the same pitcher he was in 2002. He has MAJOR control problems now a days.

 

That's not even getting into the park factor. I feel safe when I say Zito's era would be well over 4 pitching at the Cell.

[Frankensteiner]

Sorry, you just don't trade your best position prospect for two months of a guy who's been slightly above average at best since 2002. It would look even more stupid if we ended up missing the playoffs (a real possibility). Broadway is argubly our best pitching prospect right now (I know Flash is laughing somewhere). You still don't trade him for a 2 month rental.

 

Ummm... it happens plenty of times. See the Garcia trade.

 

You know who his agent is, correct?

 

Yeah, he's Crede's agent as well. Are you willing to tell me we're not going to re-sign Crede? And besides, there was discussion here that Boras and JR seem cordial to one another.

[Kalapse]

Sorry, you just don't trade your best position prospect for two months of a guy who's been slightly above average at best since 2002.

Zito since the start of the 2003 season:

 

127 GS | 50 W 43 L | 3.82 ERA | 1.27 WHIP | K/9 6.4 | BB/9 3.6 | K/BB 1.81

[TitoMB345]

That's not even getting into the park factor. I feel safe when I say Zito's era would be well over 4 pitching at the Cell.

Agreed, his stats would be worse at the cell. If we are going to trade for a SP, it HAS to be a top-of-the-line pitcher. Thats the only way I'd be happy trading for one.

 

 

Zito since the start of the 2003 season:

 

127 GS | 50 W 43 L | 3.82 ERA | 1.27 WHIP | K/9 6.4 | BB/9 3.6 | K/BB 1.81

He has had a plus 100 ERA+ though. 129 in 2003, 105 in 2004, and 116 in 2005. Basically, he has been very average since 2004, and slightly-above-aveage in 2003.

[Kalapse]

Ummm... it happens plenty of times. See the Garcia trade.

Yeah, he's Crede's agent as well. Are you willing to tell me we're not going to re-sign Crede? And besides, there was discussion here that Boras and JR seem cordial to one another.

Boras is completely intent on testing the market with Zito, as he should. There will be a team out there who sees a 28 year old lefty with an excellent curveball and a Cy Young under his belt and they'll throw a huge 5 year deal his way.

 

There is NO chance he would resign with the Sox during the season if he were traded here.

[Frankensteiner]

Zito since the start of the 2003 season:

 

127 GS | 50 W 43 L | 3.82 ERA | 1.27 WHIP | K/9 6.4 | BB/9 3.6 | K/BB 1.81

 

If you did "since the start of 2003" comparison for all our pitchers, he would statistically be our best starter.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Ummm... it happens plenty of times. See the Garcia trade.

 

Garcia and Ozzie are practically father and son. There wasn't much doubt that we would be able to extend him. His agent wasn't Scott Boras, either.

 

 

Yeah, he's Crede's agent as well. Are you willing to tell me we're not going to re-sign Crede? And besides, there was discussion here that Boras and JR seem cordial to one another.

 

Not a good comparison. The market for pitching has gotten out of control the last 5 years. Somebody is gonna offer him more money at more years than we would. I can almost guarantee you that.

Edited July 30, 2006 by Jordan4life_2006

[fathom]

Then it comes down to making any package that doesn't include McCarthy. Plus I don't think money is really a big issue anymore.

 

If it's not an issue, then we really screwed up in not trading for and re-signing Soriano.

[Kalapse]

If you did "since the start of 2003" comparison for all our pitchers, he would statistically be our best starter.

I'm not going to give up a couple top prospects and eat a ton of salary for a 2 month rental because he's the tallest midget.

[Jordan4life_2007]

If it's not an issue, then we really screwed up in not trading for and re-signing Soriano.

 

How do you figure that? They wanted McCarthy.

[fathom]

How do you figure that? They wanted McCarthy.

 

We could have gotten Soriano if we offered Fields, Broadway, and another prospect. Also, if money isn't an issue like he said it was, then we don't need McCarthy.

[BobDylan]

Sorry, you just don't trade your best position prospect for two months of a guy who's been slightly above average at best since 2002. It would look even more stupid if we ended up missing the playoffs (a real possibility). Broadway is argubly our best pitching prospect right now (I know Flash is laughing somewhere). You still don't trade him for a 2 month rental.

 

Who are you, Ron Schuler?

 

The season is at a breaking point, it can either go up or down. As it looks, it's going down. So why not make a move that'll help it go up as well as get rid of a pitcher that not only isn't wanted this season, but next year too.

 

And it's not as if the Sox haven't dealt with Boras before. The Sox just aren't in the field of paying 20 million for a player that isn't that good and is only a chamber of financial ruin. (But apparently they are in the field of paying 11 million dollars to guys with ERA's near 5.)

[Frankensteiner]

Garcia and Ozzie are practically father and son. There wasn't much doubt that we would be able to extend him. His agent wasn't Scott Boras, either.

Not a good comparison. The market for pitching has gotten out of control the last 5 years. Somebody is gonna offer him more money at more years than we would. I can almost guarantee you that.

 

I wasn't making a comparison on anything. Just pointing out the fact that JR and Boras could possibly negotiate at this point, whereas they wouldn't have done so in the past.

[Jordan4life_2007]

We could have gotten Soriano if we offered Fields, Broadway, and another prospect. Also, if money isn't an issue like he said it was, then we don't need McCarthy.

 

Ahh, so you were being sarcastic?