The Andruw Jones Thread

[Jordan4life_2007]

Because he is way too streaky at the plate. He has no plate discipline. I believe he has around 10 walks ALL SEASON. He has a terrible OBP. Sure, he's got pretty good fielding skills, but sometimes I think he makes lazy throws and causes errors that REALLY should have been outs if he would have just took his time.

 

Tito, c'mon now, out of all the problems this team has now, you call out Uribe? We're fine with Uribe at SS. He's been one of our best hitters since June 15th.

[TitoMB345]

Tito, c'mon now, out of all the problems this team has now, you call out Uribe? We're fine with Uribe at SS. He's been one of our best hitters since June 15th.

Actually, I was calling out Podsednik. I just threw in Uribe too.

 

 

And think how much better he would be if he had plate discipline. Then we'd be talking about a real hitter.

[champ]

With the Braves flopping this week, there is a good chance Jones could be dealt.

 

He'd look real good in a White Sox uniform.

 

For the last time, we have a centerfielder and he's a damn good one. He's probably best in the game defensively, and his hitting has come around, so...THERE IS NO LONGER A HOLE IN CENTERFIELD.

 

Get over yourself. You'd give up prospects for a guy we don't even need? This is just like the Soriano talk, stupid.

[fathom]

For the last time, we have a centerfielder and he's a damn good one. He's probably best in the game defensively, and his hitting has come around, so...THERE IS NO LONGER A HOLE IN CENTERFIELD.

 

Get over yourself. You'd give up prospects for a guy we don't even need? This is just like the Soriano talk, stupid.

 

The Soriano talk is stupid? Yeah, this team definitely is strong in LF. And Anderson is showing improvement, but he's far from being considered a "damn good one" right now.

[BigSqwert]

For the last time, we have a centerfielder and he's a damn good one. He's probably best in the game defensively, and his hitting has come around, so...THERE IS NO LONGER A HOLE IN CENTERFIELD.

 

Get over yourself. You'd give up prospects for a guy we don't even need? This is just like the Soriano talk, stupid.

You should start watching other teams play. He is solid but the best defensive CF in baseball? Come on.

 

EDIT: Not trying to disrespect but with the limited number of posts you've made, you actually come off as a bigger homer than Hawk Harrelson. And I thought that was nearly impossible.

Edited July 31, 2006 by BigSqwert

[Balta1701]

You should start watching other teams play. He is solid but the best defensive CF in baseball? Come on.

 

EDIT: Not trying to disrespect but with the limited number of posts you've made, you actually come off as a bigger homer than Hawk Harrelson. And I thought that was nearly impossible.

Here's an article from BP about a month ago saying how statistically, Brian Anderson had in the first half one of the best defensive halves for a CF in HISTORY, not just the best out of this year.

[BigSqwert]

Here's an article from BP about a month ago saying how statistically, Brian Anderson had in the first half one of the best defensive halves for a CF in HISTORY, not just the best out of this year.

Perhaps we should forward that to Ozzie.

[jenksd]

Man, have our expectations to have a championship caliber team gone down.

 

When every post about acquiring a reasonably large upgrade to the team is met with "he makes too much money!" or "but i like that prospect!" you know it's true. Buncha wannabe GMs. But yeah, can't get a big money player... the team might be in salary cap hell for years!

[Chisoxfn]

I think Jones is a total superstar, but I don't see why we would need to replace Anderson. We don't need offense, sure we could use a legit left fielder and that will come in the off-season but the only thing this team can get that would turn us into a world series competitor is our current pitching staff to start pitching like they are capable of.

 

I have major doubts though, since I don't think an entire staff can just decide not to stink. My only hope is that Vaz figures things out, Garland is good and Contreras is an ace and that we hope we can stay in the games that Buehrle/Garcia pitch.

[Balta1701]

I think Jones is a total superstar, but I don't see why we would need to replace Anderson. We don't need offense, sure we could use a legit left fielder and that will come in the off-season but the only thing this team can get that would turn us into a world series competitor is our current pitching staff to start pitching like they are capable of.

 

I have major doubts though, since I don't think an entire staff can just decide not to stink. My only hope is that Vaz figures things out, Garland is good and Contreras is an ace and that we hope we can stay in the games that Buehrle/Garcia pitch.

I think I agree with you that we are basically at the "This pitching staff is ungodly talented, all we can do now is hope for the best" stage, but there's probably 1 more thing we can do to help them:

 

Actually put a defense behind them that can get outs. Especially in that outfield. And that means playing Brian all the time, and maybe finding a replacement for Podsednik.

Edited July 31, 2006 by Balta1701

[champ]

The Soriano talk is stupid? Yeah, this team definitely is strong in LF. And Anderson is showing improvement, but he's far from being considered a "damn good one" right now.

 

Let me rephrase then...he WILL BE a damn good one. Right now, there's no need for an upgrade, he's probably our hottest hitter right now, and been hitting while the rest of the team has slumped.

 

And yes, the Soriano talk is stupid. I'm not ready to give up McCarthy (or other prospects) for a 2 month rental that we do not need to win. This team is good enough to go all the way...whether they play like they can, and do it, is another story. But filling holes, that are not really holes (like LF), and ruining the future of the organization is not what you want to do. You can only go so far with other teams' talent, you need to develop your own players as well (just look to the Yankees). And I want to win this year, but I also want to win in 2007, 2008, 2009, and beyond. In order to do that, you need to keep your young talent, and trade them only if it is a NECESSITY.

Edited July 31, 2006 by champ

[CWSGuy406]

And think how much better he would be if he had plate discipline. Then we'd be talking about a real hitter.

 

Oh well, so what? Not every player has the eye of Albert Pujols.

 

You're doing what bad teams do. They look at what a player can't do, rather than what they can do. We have a SS who plays elite defense at one of the most important defensive positions, and who hits for a good amount of power. Is his streakiness bothersome? Sure -- but it's not like he's paid to be a superstar. He's getting paid a reasonable amount of cash, and he's a pretty solid value for what he does.

[Chisoxfn]

I think I agree with you that we are basically at the "This pitching staff is ungodly talented, all we can do now is hope for the best" stage, but there's probably 1 more thing we can do to help them:

 

Actually put a defense behind them that can get outs. Especially in that outfield. And that means playing Brian all the time, and maybe finding a replacement for Podsednik.

All season long I've clammored that there is no reason (no matter how bad BA had been offensively) to allow Mack to play CF. Its just such a severe downgrade and no amount of hitting (unless Mack is Griffey in his prime or Pujols) would make up for the downgrade we have defensively (Mack may get a few more hits a week than BA) but Mack lets more than that drop as hits and thats not acceptable.

 

Its not Mack's fault, the onus falls on our manager who has done a horrible job with this. I should also note that if it were up to me Pods would not be a part of the organization anymore (I don't dislike him, but he hurts this team in a lot of ways, although I'd be the first to admit if he started to steal like he did for most of last year, I'd be perfectly happy to live with the poorer defense).

[TitoMB345]

Oh well, so what? Not every player has the eye of Albert Pujols.

 

You're doing what bad teams do. They look at what a player can't do, rather than what they can do. We have a SS who plays elite defense at one of the most important defensive positions, and who hits for a good amount of power. Is his streakiness bothersome? Sure -- but it's not like he's paid to be a superstar. He's getting paid a reasonable amount of cash, and he's a pretty solid value for what he does.

I am still not convinved of this "elite" status for Uribe that everyone seems so eager to give to him. Sure, he makes some incredible plays every now and then, some that are just mind blowing, and he has an amazing arm, but I am just not so conviced with his range. I think he is sometimes caught out of place, or misses balls that some elite shortstops would get either up the middle or to his right.

 

Sorry, but thats just the way I feel.

 

And about his "eye of Albert Pujols," I am not expecting those kinds of numbers at all, but Uribe's OBP is just plainfully ridiculous, and not in a good way. At .271, he is the second lowest of all SS with over 300 ABs. Angel Berrora is right below him at .270. And of all players in MLB, he ranks 510th in OBP. Now, this is with EVERY player included, even the ones with 2 AB and pitches, but still, 510th is pretty damn horrendus.

 

And I can't even begin to tell you how frustrating it is to see him swing at the first pitch, and make an out. I wouldn't mind it every once and a while, but he does it an insane amount of times. There are certain times when you just HAVE to take a pitch. If its your first AB against a new pitcher, if the guy is struggling, or if the guy is on top of his game, you have to take a pitch.

 

Now, I'm sorry if you guys disagree, but Juan Uribe has one of the worst eyes in the entire league. If he could just learn to take pitches, get on base, and create more runs (runs scored for himself, not RBIs) then I would not have any beef with him, as his defense is solid enough (and hes great, just not elite).

 

Rip me all you like. Thank you.

 

 

This team is good enough to go all the way...whether they play like they can, and do it, is another story. But filling holes, that are not really holes (like LF), and ruining the future of the organization is not what you want to do.

LF is a the biggest hole on this team right now. It's not so much that he, Podsednik, is attrocious in the field with a weak arm and bad reads on the balls, but its the fact that he is our leadoff hitter. He is not doing very well at the plate either, in terms of leadoff hitters. I would expect my leadoff hitter to have an OBP of atleast .370, and he just isn't at that anymore. Yes, he only leads off the game once, but the role of the top of the order is to get on for the big guys to drive home. If he isn't getting on that much, he isn't creating enough runs. Another factor is his bad stolen base percentage. I believe it is just around 69%, and that is not what we need at all. If he were up closer to 80-85%, I would be much happier with him. But the way it is now, if he gets on base, he seems to get either picked off or throw out quite a bit. And I think it has to do with the groin injury he suffered at the end of August last year, because up to that point, he was an awesome leadoff hitter with a great stolen base percentage. Ever since that stint on the DL, he just hasn't looked like the old Scotty Pods we grew to love.

[Gene Honda Civic]

Juan Uribe took the most walks of any Sox player in the '05 playoffs.

 

/that'll win you some bar bets.

[CWSGuy406]

Tito -- I'm not defending his batting eye. It could certainly use improvement.

 

I think you're giving him the short-end-of-the-stick defensively, though. I really doubt you could name five shortstops in all of baseball who you can say are, without a doubt, better defensive shortstops than Juan Uribe. Is he the best? It'd be tough for me to make that claim. I'll stick with this: you're not going to find a whole lot of SSs better than Uribe.

 

You're also ignoring the above average power that Juan posseses (for a SS). His IsO (SLG% - BA) is at .196, which is pretty solid. His OPS his been steadily climbing since June, mainly because of his ability to hit for xtra bases.

 

Finally -- I've seen you bash Uribe, but I haven't seen you bring up a replacement.

 

Tejada? Well, that deal isn't getting done unless we include McCarthy. That'd mean we wouldn't be able to move one of Vazquez/Garcia this offseason, and we'd also add another (close to) $9 million to a payroll that figures to get larger with Crede getting more cash, along with small raises for Buehrle, Iguchi, and Dye.

 

Furcal? I know you didn't bring his name up, but it makes me laugh when I see his name as a possible trade target for next year. The guy makes close to $10 million more than Uribe, yet has a career OPS only 20 points above Uribe's. Their defense is comparable. The only thing that Furcal really does better is steal bases; and that's not worth the $10 million difference in their salaries.

 

I'll close on this, because we've collectively spent too much time debating this. Uribe isn't a perfect player. But he's not someone who's going to hurt you, either. I'm perfectly fine with him and Brian Anderson hitting 8th and 9th, as they play the two most important defensive positions damn well. And, as has been shown this year -- run prevention > run production, and team defense certainly plays a huge part in that.

[fathom]

I'll close on this, because we've collectively spent too much time debating this. Uribe isn't a perfect player. But he's not someone who's going to hurt you, either. I'm perfectly fine with him and Brian Anderson hitting 8th and 9th, as they play the two most important defensive positions damn well. And, as has been shown this year -- run prevention > run production, and team defense certainly plays a huge part in that.

 

On a team with some high salaried guys, he's a great fit. He gives you very dependable defense, and some power at the bottom of the order. I guess people forgot how bad it was when the likes of Valentin, Clayton, and Guillen were patrolling SS.

[TitoMB345]

Making those same mistakes, coupled with body language that might indicate a lackadaisical approach to the job, is sure to produce a vastly different reaction from the White Sox manager. Shortstop Juan Uribe found that fact to be true Tuesday, as he was replaced by Alex Cintron in the lineup behind Mark Buehrle.

 

"He looks like he couldn't care less," said Guillen of Uribe, who has nine errors this season. "I was real upset yesterday, but today is a different day.

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb...sp&c_id=cws

 

Good to see I am not the only one who agrees with my statements. But, ya know, what does Ozzie know.

Edited August 2, 2006 by TitoMB345

[zygoat]

trade deadline is over. CAn we delete this thread???

[Gregory Pratt]

On a team with some high salaried guys, he's a great fit. He gives you very dependable defense, and some power at the bottom of the order. I guess people forgot how bad it was when the likes of Valentin, Clayton, and Guillen were patrolling SS.

 

Ozzie Guillen wasn't a bad shortstop!

Not pre-injury, anyway.