There will be no more trades for the Sox

[fathom]

No. It was the heater as you correctly state, he wanted to come inside, and got too far inside. He was geeked up I'd imagine and it ran too far in. A mistake. Lack of execution.

 

I know some on this site think Hawk Harrelson is senile but once again he made a great point today. He said they Sox pitchers are throwing too many pitches to these hitters and they are relying too much on these hitters to get themselves out. He said, and I agree with him, they need to go right at these guys a lot more aggressively. And that means pitching inside more, which is an entirely different topic for an entirely different thread.

 

I thought AJP was set up well outside for Tejada's fastball. I don't recall AJP ever setting up inside for Jenks fastball on a righty. And yes, Hawk and DJ were saying that stuff about going after the hitters after THE FIRST BATTER OF THE GAME!

[Balta1701]

No. It was the heater as you correctly state, he wanted to come inside, and got too far inside. He was geeked up I'd imagine and it ran too far in. A mistake. Lack of execution.

 

I know some on this site think Hawk Harrelson is senile but once again he made a great point today. He said they Sox pitchers are throwing too many pitches to these hitters and they are relying too much on these hitters to get themselves out. He said, and I agree with him, they need to go right at these guys a lot more aggressively. And that means pitching inside more, which is an entirely different topic for an entirely different thread.

And they were actually pointing out prime examples of it during the game, getting ahead of guys 1-2 and then winding up with full counts. Hard to argue with them on that.

[fathom]

And they were actually pointing out prime examples of it during the game, getting ahead of guys 1-2 and then winding up with full counts. Hard to argue with them on that.

 

It doesn't make sense though, as our starting pitcher's K rate has gone way down this year. It's funny, but our most effective pitcher this wknd was Thornton, who just went right at guys.

[Guest JimH]

I thought AJP was set up well outside for Tejada's fastball. I don't recall AJP ever setting up inside for Jenks fastball on a righty.

 

He wanted him to go upstairs as much as inside. In on his hands, which was a good call IMO but again, it was a missed location, a mistake. And it led to the loss. They had two hit batsmen who came around to score, and they lost by one run.

[Balta1701]

He wanted him to go upstairs as much as inside. In on his hands, which was a good call IMO but again, it was a missed location, a mistake. And it led to the loss. They had two hit batsmen who came around to score, and they lost by one run.

There were a lot of things that led to the loss. When Mack short-hopped that ball in Center Field in like the 4th inning, it allowed another run to score, and Anderson would have had that ball easy. Pick your item to beach about, there were a lot of stupid things done by about 10 people on that team today (Dye gets a free pass).

[BigSqwert]

Is there any easy way to determine how many BBs given up wind up scoring off a team? It feels like we'd be leading the league in that category.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

I think we have the arms here so unless we are going to go out and swap starters with someone I really don't see us doing anything.

 

 

Swapping Vazquez for a bag of balls and putting BMAC in the rotation or going with a 4 man rotation seems a lot more palatable to me than having a guaranteed bad outing every 5th day.

[Guest JimH]

And they were actually pointing out prime examples of it during the game, getting ahead of guys 1-2 and then winding up with full counts. Hard to argue with them on that.

 

Balta ... they are right, this has been the pattern all year.

 

If you are a hitter, you are 0-2, what is it that you're thinking? You are thinking this probably ... "Damn, this guy has me 0-2, I'm not gonna get anything good to hit. Therefore I'm gonna protect but if it's not looking good to me, let him throw balls and I'll get back into a better hitters count."

 

Lots of times this year, Sox pitchers are playing right into the hitters hands. A guy like Brian Roberts, go right after him. Every one know what he's trying to do, he's trying to get on base. Go right at him. They made that huge mistake on Ian Kinsler and it led to a loss.

 

Effective baseball is about controlled aggressiveness. And I'm not saying lay a fastball right down the pipe on 0-2. Make it your pitch, go up ... go in ... make the hitter's eyes move. Anyone on SoxTalk who has stood in a batters box knows exactly what I'm saying.

 

And it is not as simple as saying "they're nibbling". That's a broad brush analysis. The catcher needs to adjust on the fly, determine what the hitter is looking for and call pitches accordingly. And then the pitcher has to execute.

 

For example, on the pitch Conine poked into RF in the 9th inning, that was stupid. Go in on his hands, he's been grounding out to SS all day long because he's looking middle in. And he couldn't get it done on Vazquez's stuff, what's his chances on Jenks' heater? Not much. All he did was stick his bat out and he plopped it into RF. Wrong pitch, wrong time. Sox pitching has been nowhere near aggressive enough.

Edited July 31, 2006 by JimH

[gosox41]

It sucks, but its true. Ozzie and KW truly believe that this team as is, is good enough to make the playoffs. Some fans may think its just KW blowing smoke over the radar screen, however, I believe them this time around. This team is going to sink or swim as is. Right now it doesn't look to floatacous.

 

 

I don't think it sucks. Most agree that this team is better then the '05 team. Let them play. They had a slump. It happens. It may make things more interesting then we'd like but I don't see how a guy like Soriano is going to help a lot.

 

 

I've been saying it all along to my friends for the last week or so, I don't think KW is going to make a blockbuster deal.

 

 

 

Bob

[fathom]

I don't think it sucks. Most agree that this team is better then the '05 team. Let them play. They had a slump. It happens. It may make things more interesting then we'd like but I don't see how a guy like Soriano is going to help a lot.

 

We're better on paper and on offense....that's it.

[Rowand44]

Not sure where he got it from but a friend of mine sent me this:

 

Jayson Stark's got a good one for us this evening over in his Stark Market. Stark indicates that the Giants are now listening to offers for Jason Schmidt on the heels of their recent losing streak. Apparently the Mets, Red Sox, and Rangers have inquired.

 

If Schmidt is available, well I hope Kenny is trying his best to get him.

[Chisoxfn]

The only move worth making is one that instills life into our starting rotation. No other move will matter, even if we acquired Tejada and Soriano.

[Rowand44]

The only move worth making is one that instills life into our starting rotation. No other move will matter, even if we acquired Tejada and Soriano.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

I couldn't agree more.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Not sure where he got it from but a friend of mine sent me this:

If Schmidt is available, well I hope Kenny is trying his best to get him.

 

I'm almost positive they would want McCarthy.

[Rowand44]

I'm almost positive they would want McCarthy.

Every single team is going to want McCarthy because he's just a special talent. I think there could be ways to get around having to give up Mac or Anderson in a deal even for an ace like Jason Schmidt. Obviously that's only if the Giants really would trade Schmidt, we'll see.

[SoxAce]

I'm almost positive they would want McCarthy.

 

They'd want Count first because he's the oldest pitcher we have. They hate young players.

[S720]

Every single team is going to want McCarthy because he's just a special talent. I think there could be ways to get around having to give up Mac or Anderson in a deal even for an ace like Jason Schmidt. Obviously that's only if the Giants really would trade Schmidt, we'll see.

 

The same "special talent" that got killed by the Orioles. When you have a chance to pick up Schmidt, it doesn't matter if it's BMAC or Anderson, I'll do it in a heartbeat. Now if we have the Twins' Liriano or the Tigers' Verlander, and the Giants ask for them, I would not do the trade. I just see BMAC as a little above average pitcher. I just don't see BMAC in the same level with Schmidt, Liriano or Verlander!

[Guest JimH]

Do you guys think they (White Sox) are out of time to land a big name at this point?

 

Seems like the big name deals take more time than we have left by 3 pm CST today. I know sometimes things come together fast, but if no groundwork has been laid, I'm not expecting anything large to get done.

[klaus kinski]

The only motivation is to keep Soriano off Minnesota-the Yanks Got Abreu, if Minn gets Soriano, we have lost ground to the 2 wild card contenders-

[DBAHO]

The only motivation is to keep Soriano off Minnesota-the Yanks Got Abreu, if Minn gets Soriano, we have lost ground to the 2 wild card contenders-

Right now Bowden is insisting on Matt Garza as part of a deal for Soriano.

 

I wonder if Terry Ryan has stopped laughing yet.

 

Frankly I think you'll see Soriano shipped out, and it very well could be to Florida. They were offering 3 SP prospects including Pinto and Vargas. Their new president is really big on building from within and getting good young pitching, this would be a start.

[Cknolls]

Simply put, this team looks like they're in trouble.

 

 

I agree 100%.

[Cknolls]

There were a lot of things that led to the loss. When Mack short-hopped that ball in Center Field in like the 4th inning, it allowed another run to score, and Anderson would have had that ball easy. Pick your item to beach about, there were a lot of stupid things done by about 10 people on that team today (Dye gets a free pass).

 

Every game Guillen starts Mack in center is like the Sox starting ther game down at least a run. He is one of the worst outfielders I have ever seen read a ball coming off a player's bat. Start Anderson every game no matter what. His defense more than makes up for his lack of offense. Mack's defense is offensive.

[Rowand44]

The same "special talent" that got killed by the Orioles.

Yup, the same one.

[EvilJester99]

I think if KW needs to do anything is he needs to get a backup who can actually play CF. Rob should not be playing in CF...EVER.

[LosMediasBlancas]

Something I've noticed about Hawk lately is that he is back into '2000-2004 voice'. Hawk is on the inside and gave up on all those teams. He didn't sound that way last year at all, even during the 'collapse'.