CWSOX45 Posted July 30, 2006 Share Posted July 30, 2006 This was one of the ugliest series I've seen in awhile. Our pitching still is complete spiff. However, if you were to tell me on Thursday after being swept that the Sox would take 2 of 3 from Baltimore this weekend, I'd be ecstatic. I really hope though that Ozzie stops messing around with Vazquez, the guy can only go 5 innings, if he continue to push him we'll obviously see the same bullspiff we've seen in his past three starts. I really can't see Vazquez continuing to stay in the rotation, its pointless. Unless of course Kenny and Ozzie don't want to get to the playoffs. So all in all, even though it was ugly I have to say that I am pleased with the results of this weekend series, I really think we'll beat up on Kansas City, and hopefully get hot and make a run. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobDylan Posted July 30, 2006 Share Posted July 30, 2006 Sweeping KC is a must. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 30, 2006 Share Posted July 30, 2006 No way is Vazquez removed from the rotation. Our pitchers right now are making every hitter look dangerous. Either it be Jason Tyner or Nick Markakis or Brandon Fahey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSOX45 Posted July 30, 2006 Author Share Posted July 30, 2006 QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 30, 2006 -> 06:14 PM) No way is Vazquez removed from the rotation. Our pitchers right now are making every hitter look dangerous. Either it be Jason Tyner or Nick Markakis or Brandon Fahey. I seriously hope you're wrong, but it probably is just wishful thinking on my part.... I'm just frustrated because I feel Bmac is better suited for the rotation, and I'd like to see him get a couple spot starts.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 30, 2006 Share Posted July 30, 2006 QUOTE(CWSOX45 @ Jul 30, 2006 -> 04:17 PM) I seriously hope you're wrong, but it probably is just wishful thinking on my part.... I'm just frustrated because I feel Bmac is better suited for the rotation, and I'd like to see him get a couple spot starts.... Spot Starts = terrible idea. Won't let him get comfortable in either the bullpen or in the rotation. If you're starting him, he can't leave the rotation, no matter how indecisive the people making the decisions are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSOX45 Posted July 30, 2006 Author Share Posted July 30, 2006 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 30, 2006 -> 06:30 PM) Spot Starts = terrible idea. Won't let him get comfortable in either the bullpen or in the rotation. If you're starting him, he can't leave the rotation, no matter how indecisive the people making the decisions are. I'm desperate. I'm sick of watching Vazquez go out and implode after five innings. You'd think Ozzie would have had enough sense to take him out after the Gibbons blast today..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted July 30, 2006 Share Posted July 30, 2006 QUOTE(BobDylan @ Jul 30, 2006 -> 06:14 PM) Sweeping KC is a must. ^^^^^^^^^^^ We have to take advantage of the lesser teams just as Detroit and Minny has. If we cant then we may as well start making golf reservations for October. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Pasqua's Rec Specs Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 I think everyone keeps forgetting here that vaz is our 5th starter. He will give us 5 quality innings every time out. After that 5th then we are in trouble. Knowing this, it is up to ozzie to make the pitching change immediatley when vaz gives up a walk or hit in the 6th. I dont think it is that difficult. You have bmac warming up prior to or in the 6th inning waiting for vaz to make a mistake. Like I said, Vaz will gve us 5 good innings every time out. After that, we are in trouble and its ozzies job to learn to adjust. And its really not that hard of an adjustment. I know we all love having Vaz as our whipping boy,but his problem can be fixed if ozzie would take the situation in his own hands. I think people need to start looking at mark buehrle as our main problem here. He cant even give us 3 innings without giving up 7 or 8 runs. If he cant turn it around soon then you have to move someone into the rotation in mark's place becuase I will take vaz 5 good innings of pitching with an arm waiting if he gets in trouble, rather than running mark out there and us being out of the game by the 4th inning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 QUOTE(Dan Pasqua @ Jul 30, 2006 -> 07:11 PM) I think everyone keeps forgetting here that vaz is our 5th starter. That's a defeatist attitude. We certainly didn't give up one of our top prospects, a decent reliever and a comparable starting pitcher (effectiveness-wise....did I just make up a word?) for a 5th starter. Ignore where the guys pitch in the rotation. All 5 guys going into this season were supposed to be #1 through #3 starters on any other staff in this league. Vazquez has a helluva big contract and shouldn’t be considered 'just our 5th starter'. If Kenny thought he'd have a guy who pitched like a below average 5th starter with a high ERA and inability to get into the 7th inning then I'm sure he wouldn't have made this deal. We could have found a much less expensive guy to throw out there and perform equally poorly. Or we could have just put our best pitching prospect in that spot kind of like the Tigers and Twins did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Pasqua's Rec Specs Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 QUOTE(BigSqwert @ Jul 31, 2006 -> 12:36 AM) That's a defeatist attitude. We certainly didn't give up one of our top prospects, a decent reliever and a comparable starting pitcher (effectiveness-wise....did I just make up a word?) for a 5th starter. Ignore where the guys pitch in the rotation. All 5 guys going into this season were supposed to be #1 through #3 starters on any other staff in this league. Vazquez has a helluva big contract and shouldn’t be considered 'just our 5th starter'. If Kenny thought he'd have a guy who pitched like a below average 5th starter with a high ERA and inability to get into the 7th inning then I'm sure he wouldn't have made this deal. We could have found a much less expensive guy to throw out there and perform equally poorly. Or we could have just put our best pitching prospect in that spot kind of like the Tigers and Twins did. Could not disagree with you more. Has Vaz in teh past shown he can get into the 7th inning. No, that is why he has been with 3 teams in 3 years. However, he is our 5th starter. And hes performing adequatley for a 5th starter. If ozzie adjusts his bullpen in his starts then we would be fine. Good starting pitching today is hard to come by. Thats why it is very difficult for teams to find starting pitching now a days. ANd that could be another reason why KW may have over paid for him. Like i said, whether you like it or not he is our 5th starter. Maybe it is kenny williams fault for overpaying for a guy that everyone knew is a 500. pitcher. If the sox starters of 05 showed up this season , and ozzie finally learned how to manage his pitchers we wouldnt be in this predicament. As much as Vaz has not pitched to his capabilities this year, he has been serviceable. I just wish ozzie knew how to use him. Look to mark buehrle and freddy Garcia and you will find what is wrong with this team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 QUOTE(Dan Pasqua @ Jul 31, 2006 -> 03:26 AM) However, he is our 5th starter. And hes performing adequatley for a 5th starter. No he's not. KW didn't pay a hefty amount for him to have his ERA now 5.50. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 30, 2006 -> 09:28 PM) No he's not. KW didn't pay a hefty amount for him to have his ERA now 5.50. Couldn't agree more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Pasqua's Rec Specs Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 31, 2006 -> 03:28 AM) No he's not. KW didn't pay a hefty amount for him to have his ERA now 5.50. Did he not know what he was paying for? Look at his career. He is a 500. pitcher. Take it up with Kenny Williams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitewashed in '05 Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 QUOTE(Dan Pasqua @ Jul 30, 2006 -> 07:11 PM) I think everyone keeps forgetting here that vaz is our 5th starter. He will give us 5 quality innings every time out. After that 5th then we are in trouble. Knowing this, it is up to ozzie to make the pitching change immediatley when vaz gives up a walk or hit in the 6th. I dont think it is that difficult. You have bmac warming up prior to or in the 6th inning waiting for vaz to make a mistake. Like I said, Vaz will gve us 5 good innings every time out. After that, we are in trouble and its ozzies job to learn to adjust. And its really not that hard of an adjustment. I know we all love having Vaz as our whipping boy,but his problem can be fixed if ozzie would take the situation in his own hands. I think people need to start looking at mark buehrle as our main problem here. He cant even give us 3 innings without giving up 7 or 8 runs. If he cant turn it around soon then you have to move someone into the rotation in mark's place becuase I will take vaz 5 good innings of pitching with an arm waiting if he gets in trouble, rather than running mark out there and us being out of the game by the 4th inning Please enough with the fifth starter crap. He's being paid like a top of the rotation pitcher and we gave up top notch prospects for this ass. He really needs to get his ass in gear, stop getting pissy on the mound, and stop hanging pitches. I hate this fifth starter excuse. I don't care if you are a fifth starter, on a team like this one a fifth starter shouldn't have an ERA over 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Pratt Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 Thornton sure has been something lately. This whole year, really, but when there's a tight game, I prefer him on the mound to anyone in our pen, honestly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 QUOTE(Dan Pasqua @ Jul 30, 2006 -> 09:34 PM) Did he not know what he was paying for? Look at his career. He is a 500. pitcher. Take it up with Kenny Williams That doesn't mean we should expect him to be just a .500 pitcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Pasqua's Rec Specs Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 QUOTE(Jake @ Jul 31, 2006 -> 03:39 AM) That doesn't mean we should expect him to be just a .500 pitcher. Im not saying that.I realize he is not pitching up to his potential. But if he can give us 5 good innings then just a pitching change when he gives up a hit or walk then problem solved. We have a solid bullpen. We just have to utilize it. My point is we knew what we were getting when KW over paid for him. I just dont understand the high expectations when we have seen what hes done in the past. Its not fair that Vaz name gets dragged through the mud when mark buehrle and garcia have pitched just as bad if not worse. At least when Vaz goes out there I know we are onna get 5 good innings. Cant say the same for Buehrle ,Garcia QUOTE(Jake @ Jul 31, 2006 -> 03:39 AM) That doesn't mean we should expect him to be just a .500 pitcher. Im not saying that.I realize he is not pitching up to his potential. But if he can give us 5 good innings then just a pitching change when he gives up a hit or walk then problem solved. We have a solid bullpen. We just have to utilize it. My point is we knew what we were getting when KW over paid for him. I just dont understand the high expectations when we have seen what hes done in the past. Its not fair that Vaz name gets dragged through the mud when mark buehrle and garcia have pitched just as bad if not worse. At least when Vaz goes out there I know we are onna get 5 good innings. Cant say the same for Buehrle ,Garcia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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