MLB Trade Deadline Thread 7/31

[Milkman delivers]

I've really come to hate the trade deadline in the past two years.

[Chisoxfn]

He would have never approved of a trade to the AL. I don't see how someone can say Hernandez and Perez were had for nothing, as Nady is a pretty solid corner outfielder. He's had a lot of value for a few seasons now.

And a lot of people grossly under-rate Cesar Itzuris as far as I'm concerned. This is the type of guy the more you watch him, the more you like him.

[redandwhite]

Nady is a feared corner outfielder?

 

He hasn't been very good at all this year, and he plays a corner outfield position which is the easiest position to fill.

 

You don't trade Perez' upside for Nady, and to include Hernandez whom if traded a few weeks could have gotten much more value.

 

Not to mention, they could have used that package to acquire Linebrink, who has closer/set-up man written all over him.

[fathom]

Nady is a feared corner outfielder?

 

He hasn't been very good at all this year, and he plays a corner outfield position which is the easiest position to fill.

 

You don't trade Perez' upside for Nady, and to include Hernandez whom if traded a few weeks could have gotten much more value.

 

Not to mention, they could have used that package to acquire Linebrink, who has closer/set-up man written all over him.

 

Perez has serious attitude issues, as well as the prevailing belief among some baseball executives that his skills might have been "enhanced" in the past. Nady has long been a valuable trade chip, as many believe he's going to end up being a 30 homer player. I never said he was feared...just more valuable than you're giving him credit for. Personally, I think it's a great fit for the Pirates with him out there. Why would the Pirates want Linebrink? They have their closer in Gonzalez, and they have some solid guys in their pen.

[Punch and Judy Garland]

Well if Florida really is worried about the CBA having a minimum salary structure, then they were likely the team who last night asked for a negotiating window. If they can work out dollars with Soriano, I would not be surprised if Soriano is a Marlin in a week or two

[Frankensteiner]

This is the only time I can remember being dissappointed with KW. I'm sure someone will say "but there was nothing out there," but it's not like we couldn't have dumped Vazquez for a bag of baseballs to some contending NL team. Yeah, sure, he'd be admitting a horrible mistake, but at the same time Vazquez would be off the team and Ozzie wouldn't be trotting him out there every 5th day for one inning too many. So it's my belief KW put his ego ahead of winning in this case.

[Frankensteiner]

Here is a list of current White Sox who will be free agents at the end of the year: Sandy Alomar & David Riske.

 

That's it. The entire rest of the team is either under White Sox control thanks to the reserve/arbitration clause, or has a team option on their contract. Kenny Williams has built a team that will contend for a World Series for multiple years. Multiple years. Not just this year.

 

I don't consider being so locked into these players such a good thing. Our best players are a 36 year old slugger, a "34 year old" Cuban pitcher, and a 32 year old outfielder having by far his best career season. Good luck trying to duplicate that next year.

 

As far as the pitchers, I see Buehrle having the best shot of improving. Hopefully Garland can pitch more like he has in the second half. But after that? Vazquez has sucked for quite some time, at some point he's not underachieving anymore. Garcia sucks because he has no fastball, and how many players lose their stuff at 30, and regain it at 31?

 

Right now I see us as the 4th or 5th best team in the AL, and very lucky that our offense has produced up to this level. Upgrading this roster in the off-season is a must, imo.

[KevHead0881]

I dont think Cheat will have a problem with me posting this... Sums up my feelings to a tee...

 

Sums it up for me too. Well done Cheat.

 

There wasn't a pitcher out there that was traded today that would have been a significant upgrade over what we currently have, or at least a starter that was worth giving up good talent for. The one move that I was counting on Kenny to make was either a fourth OF, or a replacement for Pods all together. With that said, even if we did add another outfielder, I really doubt said player would have been the difference between us winning another title or not.

 

Our fate rests on our starting pitching getting their act together. This would be the case no matter what move Kenny made.

[supernuke]

This is the only time I can remember being dissappointed with KW. I'm sure someone will say "but there was nothing out there," but it's not like we couldn't have dumped Vazquez for a bag of baseballs to some contending NL team. Yeah, sure, he'd be admitting a horrible mistake, but at the same time Vazquez would be off the team and Ozzie wouldn't be trotting him out there every 5th day for one inning too many. So it's my belief KW put his ego ahead of winning in this case.

 

I don't think dumping Javier would help much if at all. With the exception of maybe Roy Oswalt I didn't see any one out there availible that would have made a big enough impact on the team. We still would be looking at several guys that need to get their spiff together and thats either going to happen or its not, no player that was out there was going to change that.

 

I for one am glad we didn't trade any prospects for a rental that likely would not have the impact we all would want. We still have a shot at the playoffs this year with the guys we have and I think we have just as good a shot as we would have if we had traded for Soriano or some other rental. I beleive we will be better off holding on to our prospect and playing out the season, if things don't come together we go into the off season with some trade bait where I think we can get better value and better address the teams needs.

[CanOfCorn]

I don't consider being so locked into these players such a good thing. Our best players are a 36 year old slugger, a "34 year old" Cuban pitcher, and a 32 year old outfielder having by far his best career season. Good luck trying to duplicate that next year.

 

As far as the pitchers, I see Buehrle having the best shot of improving. Hopefully Garland can pitch more like he has in the second half. But after that? Vazquez has sucked for quite some time, at some point he's not underachieving anymore. Garcia sucks because he has no fastball, and how many players lose their stuff at 30, and regain it at 31?

 

Right now I see us as the 4th or 5th best team in the AL, and very lucky that our offense has produced up to this level. Upgrading this roster in the off-season is a must, imo.

 

I see the rotation like I see the quarterback or running back positions in the NFL...you NEED an extra starter and an extra closer. We have that. If someone goes down, they stretch out BMac and bring up Tracey or Haeger or Phillips or whoever. If Jenks goes down *knocks on wood* they've got MacDougal or Cotts or Thornton. It's called depth and it's a good thing.

 

As for the 36 year old slugger...he's just a DH. He doesn't play the field so that cuts down on his injury risk. Contreras is going to be the next Niekro. If his arm hasn't fallen off by this point after all the work he got in Cuba, then he's one of those freak of nature rubber arm guys.

 

And Dye is just peaking now. I'd give him another couple of years of output very close to this. Especially hitting behind Konerko and Thome. Someone is going to be gone from the rotation this offseason...they pretty much said that last year. Buehrle and Garcia will bounce back, I have faith. Vazquez, I'm not so sure, but he's got to cinch it up and hunker down. Garland is what he is.

 

I think they got freaked out by Detroit and lost it for awhile, but they will bounce back and get that second wind and kick it into high gear again.

 

Signed,

 

Nostradamus the Eternal Optimist

[Chisoxfn]

I don't consider being so locked into these players such a good thing. Our best players are a 36 year old slugger, a "34 year old" Cuban pitcher, and a 32 year old outfielder having by far his best career season. Good luck trying to duplicate that next year.

 

As far as the pitchers, I see Buehrle having the best shot of improving. Hopefully Garland can pitch more like he has in the second half. But after that? Vazquez has sucked for quite some time, at some point he's not underachieving anymore. Garcia sucks because he has no fastball, and how many players lose their stuff at 30, and regain it at 31?

 

Right now I see us as the 4th or 5th best team in the AL, and very lucky that our offense has produced up to this level. Upgrading this roster in the off-season is a must, imo.

Our pitchres are all pitching well below career standards. That may continue for this season, but given an off-season the odds of them pitching closer to there career norms are far greater than the odds of them repeating what they did this year.

 

It would be absolutely stupid to trade what we had when it wouldn't have made the team better and we wouldn't have gotten value for them. I don't care if other teams wouldn't give what we want, if they don't than we don't make the trade. We weren't forced to make a trade.

 

If Oswalt or Schmidt were legitimately out there than yes, I think we should have made a run at them, but odds are we didn't have what the opponents wanted.

[soxpride77]

I dont think Cheat will have a problem with me posting this... Sums up my feelings to a tee...

 

 

QUOTE

Here is a list of current White Sox who will be free agents at the end of the year: Sandy Alomar & David Riske.

 

That's it. The entire rest of the team is either under White Sox control thanks to the reserve/arbitration clause, or has a team option on their contract. Kenny Williams has built a team that will contend for a World Series for multiple years. Multiple years. Not just this year.

 

Kenny's job as a GM is to give the Sox the best team on the field that he possibly can. After that, it's up to the team to perform. Kenny did that. But as I tried to point out in the previous post -- some of you aren't into brevity, apparently -- the starting pitching simply hasn't performed to expectations. 4 of the starters are having seasons at or below 25th percentile projections from PECOTA, with Vazquez falling below 10th percentile ERA projections.

 

No team is going to win with 80% of it's rotation under performing. In fact, I'm amazed that the Sox are just .5 games out of the Wild Card given the rotations struggles. If the rotation had performed as expected, with the Sox owning the best offense in baseball, the Sox would have the best record in baseball as well.

 

So what do you do with 80% of the rotation underporming, but locked up for at least another year?

 

You wait. You wait, because the starters will not be this bad for the rest of their contracts. It's hard to believe they can be this bad for the rest of this season. They just have too much history of success to be this bad. You don't overreact and start dumping players when their value is at it's lowest. You don't overreact and make a move for the sake of making a move. Because that's all any move would have been.

 

Even if the Sox had dumped Pods and acquired Soriano, the pitching still had to perform. Even if Vazquez or Garcia was shipped out, with McCarthy going to the rotation, McCarthy and the other 3 still had to perform. And as we saw in Brandon's relief effort on Saturday, he's no guarantee for success.

 

This White Sox team can make this playoffs. This White Sox team can win the World Series. But they need their starters to perform as we know they're capable. No move that Kenny Williams could have made would change that fact.

 

That's why I'm not sitting here at my computer, face red, pounding my keyboard because our GM didn't pull off a blockbuster. It's up to the players. And even though I don't think they will win the series this year (I didn't think they would on Opening Day either.) they still have a shot, both this year and next, which is better than the alternative on the Northside.

 

 

I'll buy into this as well, nice post Cheat.

 

I don't consider being so locked into these players such a good thing. Our best players are a 36 year old slugger, a "34 year old" Cuban pitcher, and a 32 year old outfielder having by far his best career season. Good luck trying to duplicate that next year.

 

As far as the pitchers, I see Buehrle having the best shot of improving. Hopefully Garland can pitch more like he has in the second half. But after that? Vazquez has sucked for quite some time, at some point he's not underachieving anymore. Garcia sucks because he has no fastball, and how many players lose their stuff at 30, and regain it at 31?

 

Right now I see us as the 4th or 5th best team in the AL, and very lucky that our offense has produced up to this level. Upgrading this roster in the off-season is a must, imo.

 

But don't you think KW will address the problems that we have this year in the off-season. I'd rather him do that then get fleeced at the trading deadline. I want this team to win back to back championships as much as the next person, but I do like the fact that our GM has the mindset to keep us playoff caliber from year to year, whereas Cubs fans are reduced to HOPE for mediocrity.

Edited July 31, 2006 by soxpride77

[My Dixie Normus]

Of all the teams that made moves in the last two weeks, I think the most threatening to the White Sox chances at the post season was what the Yankees did. I still think the Tigers can be caught and passed by the White Sox. If we even make it a race, the wild card should be ours for the taking. But this team needs to get hungry real soon. Everyone in the locker room now knows they are staying with a contender. It is time to step it up a notch and play hard.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I'm just glad this madness if finally over. The trade deadline, or should I say the 3 weeks or so leading up to the deadline, has just become a bunch of hype and a major distraction the last couple years. 98% of the rumored deals you hear don't even come close to happening. I'm not surprised that nothing even remotely close to a blockbuster happened today.

 

I also agree 100% with Cheat. There was NOTHING more Kenny could've done to upgrade this team. This team is built on starting pitching. When 4 of your 5 starters are all having below average years, you're gonna be in trouble. You can't go out and replace an entire starting rotation. We could've traded for Soriano, Ortiz, Manny, and Pujols -- we'd still be in trouble with our starters performing so poorly. Kenny has done his part. He upgraded (atleast on paper) the rotation, offense, and bench. He turned Joe Borchard and Javier Lopez into Matt Thornton and David Riske. He went out and got us the set-up man we needed. He went out and got us a back-up catcher (although I'll concede I would've like somebody else besides Alomar). It's all on Ozzie and the players from this point. If we don't get it done, it won't be because Kenny didn't make a move at the trade deadline. It will be because our starting rotation didn't come through. Period.

Edited July 31, 2006 by Jordan4life_2006

[Frankensteiner]

You're right, having the core of a World Series winning club locked up is a bad thing.

 

Never said it was, but if you look at the 2003 Angels, the 2004 Marlins, and even last year's Red Sox, sometimes that's not enough and you continuously have to keep improving the roster.

 

Still looking for the last time Kenny didnt upgrade the roster in the off-season......He has already come out and said one of the starters will be gone, and Pods seemed to be very publicly on the market over the last few weeks. I look for Garcia and Pods to be shipped out this winter.

 

I never said he won't. I was responding to the quote which suggested this team is good enough to win the World Series this year and next year. I don't think they are. And some of the things you mentioned could have been done now (i.e dump a starter to open a spot for McCarthy) and could have improved the team now.

Edited July 31, 2006 by Frankensteiner

[Jordan4life_2007]

Never said it was, but if you look at the 2003 Angels, the 2004 Marlins, and even last year's Red Sox, sometimes that's not enough and you continuously have to keep improving the roster.

 

Which is what Kenny went out and tried to do in the offseason. It's not his fault 4 of the 5 guys in the rotation are pitching well below their career averages.

 

 

I never said he won't. I was responding to the quote which suggested this team is good enough to win the World Series this year and next year. I don't think they are. And some of the things you mentioned could have been done now (i.e dump a starter to open a spot for McCarthy) and could have improved the team now.

 

Dump a starter? For who? What do we get back? What team do you know that's shown interest in Vazquez or Garcia? Should Kenny just dump these guys off for trash because they've struggled for a few months? Throw McCarthy in the rotation when he's been in the bullpen all year? Inconsistent at that. Then you've got a hole in the bullpen. You're making it sound a lot simpler than it really is.

Edited August 1, 2006 by Jordan4life_2006

[Milkman delivers]

Sums it up for me too. Well done Cheat.

 

There wasn't a pitcher out there that was traded today that would have been a significant upgrade over what we currently have, or at least a starter that was worth giving up good talent for. The one move that I was counting on Kenny to make was either a fourth OF, or a replacement for Pods all together. With that said, even if we did add another outfielder, I really doubt said player would have been the difference between us winning another title or not.

 

Our fate rests on our starting pitching getting their act together. This would be the case no matter what move Kenny made.

 

Why does this get so minimized? Mackowiak costs us runs every single game he starts in CF, and he starts once a series. That alone may end up costing us games, and every game counts. I don't think people realize how terrible our OF defense is with Mack running around CF like a chicken with his head chopped off, Pods dropping easy outs, and Dye trudging around in wet cement in RF. It can end up costing us a few games just because Ozzie refuses to let BA start 3 straight games or he has to play matchups.

 

With the way the starters are going, that is painfully obvious. However, like Cheat said, if one or two of the starters even come close to there career norms, then we will have to agree to disagree.

Like Jas said, it would serve no purpose to trade Vaz when his value is at an all-time low. Just doesnt make any sense to do it now.

 

His value after sucking for half a year will be higher than sucking for a full year, which is the situation we'll be in come the offseason.

[rowand's rowdies]

pods and mack are two of the worst outfielders I have EVER seen. Dye is above average. Anderson is well above average. Pods and Mack will continue to cost us runs, but if they can get on base, I guess we will have to take it...

[Balta1701]

By the way, I'd just like to take a moment to say that Jim Bowden, IMO, cost himself his job today. It might happen at the end of the year when Soriano leaves, it might happen 2-3 years down the road after the Nats way overpay Soriano in order to avoid losing him, but it cost him his job.

[Chisoxfn]

pods and mack are two of the worst outfielders I have EVER seen. Dye is above average. Anderson is well above average. Pods and Mack will continue to cost us runs, but if they can get on base, I guess we will have to take it...

Mack is actually a pretty damn solid corner outfielder. The problem is we are trying to put him in CF. Just think if we moved Dye over and asked him to play center. I understand slamming Pods' defense but Mack doesn't deserve to be slammed. Mack is trying his best and its not his fault the manager is putting him in a position that he can't possible succeed at.

[whitesoxfan101]

Mack is actually a pretty damn solid corner outfielder. The problem is we are trying to put him in CF. Just think if we moved Dye over and asked him to play center. I understand slamming Pods' defense but Mack doesn't deserve to be slammed. Mack is trying his best and its not his fault the manager is putting him in a position that he can't possible succeed at.

 

Indeed. If we miss the playoffs, it will probably be in part due to several games lost (with a few more to come!) due to Ozzie putting Mack in CF even though he can't play out there. Mack should ONLY be out there once every couple weeks to give BA a break, end of story. Mack in the corners of the OF is very solid and he's given us quality at bats with a .300/.400 split or so the last couple months after that slow start.

[DBAHO]

By the way, I'd just like to take a moment to say that Jim Bowden, IMO, cost himself his job today. It might happen at the end of the year when Soriano leaves, it might happen 2-3 years down the road after the Nats way overpay Soriano in order to avoid losing him, but it cost him his job.

If the Twins did indeed offer Matt Garza after all (and I've heard conflicting reports on this), Bowden needs to be fired right now for keeping Soriano.

 

Alfonso wants a no trade clause in his next deal and Stan Kasten doesn't want to give him one. So most likely he won't be in Washington next season.

[beck72]

Never said it was, but if you look at the 2003 Angels, the 2004 Marlins, and even last year's Red Sox, sometimes that's not enough and you continuously have to keep improving the roster.

I never said he won't. I was responding to the quote which suggested this team is good enough to win the World Series this year and next year. I don't think they are. And some of the things you mentioned could have been done now (i.e dump a starter to open a spot for McCarthy) and could have improved the team now.

 

This was exactly what Kenny Williams did to improve the sox after 2005. He didn't stand still and shook up the roster, filling holes where they were definitely needed [powerhitting LH DH, 5th SP, a much deeper bench]. As the roster stands, this team is more than able to repeat.

 

KW will shake up the roster after 2006, win or lose. The Sox are trusting Freddy, Mark and Javy to pitch better in the 2nd half. It's not exactly a blind trust. These are all veterans who know how to pitch and in all likelihood, throw better than what Bmac could give the sox right now after not being stretched out. That's not to say Freddy and Javy could post better numbers than BMac in 2007 after preparing to be a SP in spring. He probably will and a SP will be moved by KW. But a lot of things would have to go right now [bMac being able to go 5, 6, 7 innings after 3 starts tops; taxing the bullpen for the games BMac starts; a SP adjusting to the bullpen] for Bmac to be a definite upgrade.

[LosMediasBlancas]

So when Kenny said he was going to stand pat, he meant he was going to stand pat?

[DBAHO]

So when Kenny said he was going to stand pat, he meant he was going to stand pat?

So much for Flying Under the Radar now.

 

That term got so overused around these parts last season, it pretty much lost all meaning.