Hall of Fame Idea

[Gregory Pratt]

First, let me say that I think the HOF is a fraud in a lot of ways. The fact that someone like Bert Blyleven, Shoeless Joe or Pete Rose can be excluded from the Hall while other people get in is bogus, IMO, but that's the hall for you.

 

But, anyway, I was thinking about Cuba and Cuban players. Orlando Hernandez, Livan Hernandez and Jose Contreras spent the prime years of their careers in Cuba. Internationally, and in Cuba, they were excellent. (I'm only using them two as examples because I've had a softspot in my heart for them for years now, although they had great numbers in those years.) And then I was thinking about Japan, and Japanese players. Clearly, Japan's a different breed than Cuba. You won't be threatened, and your family won't starve, if you leave Japan for the Major Leagues.

 

When Ted Williams retired, he called for MLB to put black players from the Negro Leagues into the HOF because they hadn't gotten a chance but had proven talent with the shots given them. Now, let's take Ichiro: I think that, if he retired today, he'd belong in the Hall, based on what he's done up until now and the many years of success in Japan. Jose Contreras and El Duque obviously haven't dominated like Ichiro has, but I am of the opinion that Cooperstown should give serious consideration to players who didn't get to play here too long but excelled for the years they did simply because I think it's the right message to send foreign players, and because I think it's deserved.

 

Thoughts?

[Buehrle>Wood]

So basically copy Springfield, Mass and make it a baseball Hall of Fame instead of a MLB Hall of Fame. You won't find anyone to disagree with you. However, I'm sure there are certain obstacles that would have to be overcome.

[Gregory Pratt]

So basically copy Springfield, Mass and make it a baseball Hall of Fame instead of a MLB Hall of Fame. You won't find anyone to disagree with you. However, I'm sure there are certain obstacles that would have to be overcome.

 

Yeah, actually, I'd like that.

[Sonik22]

Ichiro is going to be a 1st ballot HOF. Book It.

[Gregory Pratt]

Ichiro is going to be a 1st ballot HOF. Book It.

 

Yeah, I think so, too.

[Felix]

Ichiro is going to be a 1st ballot HOF. Book It.

If he plays 4 more years at the same quality of play that he is now, then yes. But if those 4 years are worthless, then no, I doubt he will be.

[Gregory Pratt]

If he plays 4 more years at the same quality of play that he is now, then yes. But if those 4 years are worthless, then no, I doubt he will be.

 

Ichiro will play fine, barring injury, but I think he'd be in no matter what if he retired today.

[Sonik22]

Ichiro will play fine, barring injury, but I think he'd be in no matter what if he retired today.

I still think hed be 1st ballot if he retired today also. He opened up the opportunity for japanese players to try their skills in the mlb. ex. Gooch, Matsui, Shingo.....

[Hatchetman]

you have to play 10 years to be eligible for the HOF.

[Gregory Pratt]

you have to play 10 years to be eligible for the HOF.

 

I'm sure there are all sorts of exceptions. There've gotta be. Always are.

 

If Ichiro plays for four more years, though, I'm absolutely sure he'll make it in, and I'm sure that Ichiro will play at a very respectable level for four years. His work ethic is second to none in MLB.

[greasywheels121]

I still think hed be 1st ballot if he retired today also. He opened up the opportunity for japanese players to try their skills in the mlb. ex. Gooch, Matsui, Shingo.....

 

Hideo Nomo.

[Sonik22]

Hideo Nomo.

2 shae, but where is he now? ahahahahaha lol

[greasywheels121]

Killing sharks.

[Gregory Pratt]

2 shae, but where is he now? ahahahahaha lol

 

Not touche.

 

Nomo deserves credit for opening the door to pitchers from Japan, but Ichiro opened the door for position players to play everyday, as before him there was a doubt that guys from Japan -- perceived generally to be smaller and weaker by arrogant American scouts -- could play fully and well in a longer, tougher American season, with wider variance in temperatures and all of the things that come from playing in America.

 

Different circumstances between position players and pitchers, although Nomo was a pioneer of sorts, and a helluva pitcher. Before the Onset of Suck.

[Hatchetman]

good thing so taguchi wasn't the first guy.

[Felix]

Ichiro will play fine, barring injury, but I think he'd be in no matter what if he retired today.

As said, he can't because of requirements, but if he loses a step (which is common as players get older), then his numbers are going to take a significant hit because he relies on his speed to make things happen. If he loses a step and his numbers follow, then no, he shouldn't be in the HoF.

 

I'm sure there are all sorts of exceptions. There've gotta be. Always are.

As far as I know, these isn't.

Edited August 3, 2006 by Felix

[knightni]

Kids...

 

http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/library/...s/rw_060201.htm

[Rex Hudler]

So basically copy Springfield, Mass and make it a baseball Hall of Fame instead of a MLB Hall of Fame. You won't find anyone to disagree with you. However, I'm sure there are certain obstacles that would have to be overcome.

 

Well, please allow me to be the first to completely disagree then. MLB is the elite level of baseball. Those are the players who deserve to be in.

 

While I am okay with considering the careers of players in other countries such as Japan and Cuba in their overall profile, I do not think they belong if they do not perform at HOF standards here. As of right now, Ichiro is the only such player that deserves consideration in my opinion. Livan Hernandez, El Duque and Jose Contreras have not done enough here in MLB to receive consideration. There is no way they belong.

 

Look at it this way. A Japanese player who plays 15 years in Japan and then comes to the US and plays 3 or 4 years before he retires does not deserve consideration for the MLB HOF. There has to be at least a reasonable amount of time spent here to consider their time overseas. Also, a mediocre longer career here should not merit consideration.

 

The bottom line, is if they have a HOF caliber career here but it is shortened because of their playing in their home country for many years, then that should be taken into consideration. Cooperstown is not the Cuban HOF, nor the Japanese HOF, nor should it be!

[Gregory Pratt]

The Major League Hall of Fame?

 

But I thought they were in the business of keeping some of the best in our country's history out, too?

 

F-ck the HOF.

[Gregory Pratt]

As said, he can't because of requirements, but if he loses a step (which is common as players get older), then his numbers are going to take a significant hit because he relies on his speed to make things happen. If he loses a step and his numbers follow, then no, he shouldn't be in the HoF.

As far as I know, these isn't.

 

There are certainly exceptions:

 

Under special circumstances, certain players may be deemed eligible for induction even though they have not met all requirements. This has resulted in only two inductions, when Lou Gehrig was specially elected shortly after his retirement in 1939, and when Addie Joss was elected in 1978 despite only playing in nine seasons. Additionally, if an otherwise eligible player dies before their fifth year of retirement, then that player may be placed on the ballot at the first election at least six months after their death. Roberto Clemente, who died in a plane crash in 1972, is the only current Hall of Fame member for whom the 5-year minimum was waived.