Effect of WBC

[DBAHO]

I saw this article today on Foxsports.com, thought it would be an interesting discussion;

 

Maybe they should just call it the World Baseball Catastrophe.

 

The dog days of August are upon us. If there were any ill effects from the World Baseball Classic, this might be when we'd expect to see them take hold in earnest. Opponents of the WBC weren't worried about the number of innings the pitchers would throw, it was the immediate intensity of the competition without the gradual six-week buildup of spring training that concerned the naysayers. The results have ranged from Zambrano (Victor, out for the season with an elbow injury) to Zambrano (Carlos, 12-3, 3.42 ERA). But a clear trend has emerged: the WBC messed up the pitchers that participated. This week's plunge into the box scores is dedicated to the WBC and the pitchers who were brave enough to take part.

 

Freddy Garcia

 

Garcia pitched his heart — and arm? — out in Venezuela's elimination loss to the Dominican Republic. In two WBC starts he had a 1.23 ERA and a 0.95 WHIP, numbers that mock his full-time employer, the Chicago White Sox. After getting hammered for 11 hits in a loss to the lowly Royals on Wednesday, Garcia is 0-3 with a 5.50 ERA and a 1.57 WHIP in his last six starts.

 

Do you really think something like that has messed up Freddy's arm and velocity this season?

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5846084

[BobDylan]

I saw this article today on Foxsports.com, thought it would be an interesting discussion;

Do you really think something like that has messed up Freddy's arm and velocity this season?

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5846084

 

Pitching around the league has been VERY interesting and VERY bad.

[RME JICO]

I saw this article today on Foxsports.com, thought it would be an interesting discussion;

Do you really think something like that has messed up Freddy's arm and velocity this season?

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5846084

 

I think it is a combination of the WBC and the postseason. He got less of a break than any other pitcher in the league. How many pitchers actually pitched in the WS and in the WBC? 2 or 3, and I think Garcia was the only starting pitcher to pitch in both (not counting Clemens because he had a couple of extra months of rest).

 

Lidge is another pitcher to pitch in the WS and WBC, and he has struggled all year (5.76 ERA, 1.48 WHIP).

 

Even playoff pitchers have struggled. Jake Peavy's ERA is almost double his career ERA before this year.

Edited August 6, 2006 by RME JICO

[beck72]

Looking at all the guys who threw in the WBC, and how a lot have done poorly or have gotten hurt, there might be something to this affecting pitchers. The time pitchers were throwing in the WBC they would have normally been getting their work in during spring, throwing nice and easy, working on mechanics, location etc. Most innings in the WBC, though, were high stress, where the pitchers went all out with each pitch. Few guys were probably prepared for the extra stress on their arms, or were expecting such intense games.

[kapkomet]

Looking at all the guys who threw in the WBC, and how a lot have done poorly or have gotten hurt, there might be something to this affecting pitchers. The time pitchers were throwing in the WBC they would have normally been getting their work in during spring, throwing nice and easy, working on mechanics, location etc. Most innings in the WBC, though, were high stress, where the pitchers went all out with each pitch. Few guys were probably prepared for the extra stress on their arms, or were expecting such intense games.

I ABSOLUTELY think that the WBC had an effect on Freddy... ESPECIALLY Freddy, because he pitched into almost November. His velocity was there in WBC, and was there in April, and now it's not. He's tired. And rightfully so.

[southsideirish71]

I ABSOLUTELY think that the WBC had an effect on Freddy... ESPECIALLY Freddy, because he pitched into almost November. His velocity was there in WBC, and was there in April, and now it's not. He's tired. And rightfully so.

 

 

I agree that it most likely had an effect. But Hawk and DJ were spinning the whole, Freddy is now a finese pitcher all the way back in spring training. His velocity was not there from the beginning. And he was rebranded by Hawk and DJ as a new type of pitcher. So they knew something right away, and the way they spun it was that it was a career choice.

[Steve9347]

i dont think there is any validity to this.

 

 

francisco liriano pitched in the WBC, did he not?

[greasywheels121]

i dont think there is any validity to this.

francisco liriano pitched in the WBC, did he not?

 

Francisco Liriano wasn't playing until Halloween.

[elrockinMT]

Interesting assessment being put out there on the WBC issue. I do seem to remember pitching coaches, mangers and GM's, including our own, mentioning that the WBC thing was not going to be good for pitchers getting into a training groove during spring training. We may be seeing dead arms already, but you also have to wonder if they can recover in mid Augst on as most pitchers do go into dead arm periods during the season? These guys may have hit their's earlier than usual.

[Greg The Bull Luzinski]

Bud Selig will pay as much attention to these trends as he did to the bulging biceps of Sammy Sosa and Mark McGwire.

[Hatchetman]

if this were a few years ago, you'd think he was off the juice, but he was throwing 95 at times last year. odds are he's got some arm problems. the wbc classic sure as hell didn't help things but how many pitchers make it to his age and that many innings w/o some major problems along the way?

[rangercal]

I ABSOLUTELY think that the WBC had an effect on Freddy... ESPECIALLY Freddy, because he pitched into almost November. His velocity was there in WBC, and was there in April, and now it's not. He's tired. And rightfully so.

I don't know of this velocity in april you speak of.

[Balta1701]

i dont think there is any validity to this.

francisco liriano pitched in the WBC, did he not?

So, you're saying that if Freddy had spent the first 2 months of the season in the bullpen, he'd be in good shape? I could buy that.

[whitesoxfan101]

I can't believe that an exhibition tourney in March caused this. Freddy's velocity last year was down from years past, and he threw about a million innings last year as well. I think it's just a case of all the innings he's thrown the last decade or so having an affect on his arm, and it started showing up last year, but Freddy at 92 (whereas he was at 95 and 96 in Seattle) can still get people out. Freddy at 86 isn't going to get his grandma out, on the other hand.

[kapkomet]

I don't know of this velocity in april you speak of.

In April, he was at least around 90. Not anymore.

[whitesoxfan101]

In April, he was at least around 90. Not anymore.

 

He was?? He didn't even get about 87 in his first start against Cleveland.

[kapkomet]

Yea, I think so... I seem to remember one of those April starts where he was about 90 or so on his fastball pretty consistant.

[whitesoxfan101]

Yea, I think so... I seem to remember one of those April starts where he was about 90 or so on his fastball pretty consistant.

 

Hmm that is possible, but the Comcast gun early this year was completely out of whack, so that could have been part of it.

[kapkomet]

Hmm that is possible, but the Comcast gun early this year was completely out of whack, so that could have been part of it.

Actually, I think it was the 2nd or 3rd start for him, and it would have had to be a WGN or ESPN game, because that's all I can get. But I don't remember the details. I know what you all mean, though, he's been struggling all year, one 90 mph game that I seem to remember notwithstanding.

[whitesoxfan101]

Actually, I think it was the 2nd or 3rd start for him, and it would have had to be a WGN or ESPN game, because that's all I can get. But I don't remember the details. I know what you all mean, though, he's been struggling all year, one 90 mph game that I seem to remember notwithstanding.

 

Yeah, even if your right (which you probably are), the point I made about the innings catching up with him stands. He just doesn't have a lot of juice left in his right arm IMO. I remember everybody, for example, saying Johan was screwed up because of the WBC when he was awful early this year. But once he got RED HOT, people got real quiet on that one.

[Milkman delivers]

Steroid policy comes around in 2005. Freddy begins to lose velocity in 2005.

[whitesoxfan101]

Steroid policy comes around in 2005. Freddy begins to lose velocity in 2005.

 

I can't buy that one. I'm not naive enough to say no Sox did/do the cheating stuff, but Freddy hasn't really lost weight, he's always had more "fat" type weight, and the dropoff last season was pretty minimal, whereas this year it was drastic.

[BobDylan]

Steroid policy comes around in 2005. Freddy begins to lose velocity in 2005.

 

I think steroids are pretty overrated for a pitcher. A throwing arm is a tricky thing, but added muscle (in the wrong places) is a bad thing. As a former pitcher I can relate to Freddy here. One day I threw a shut out, then the rest of the season my velocity was totally gone.

 

I can buy the mass amount of innings he's piled up as a problem -- as you saw a decline in 2005 -- but steroids seems like a crap excuse to me. Maybe a pitcher can benefit from steroids by strengthening their legs, but if you bulk the arm too much, it doesn't flow through the slot the same.

 

If anyone can remember a few years back James Baldwin had the problem of bulking up too much.

 

A baseball player is born with his throwing arm...it can be strengthened to add 1-3 MPH, but not 10, as Freddy's drop off here is suggesting.

[whitesoxfan101]

I think steroids are pretty overrated for a pitcher. A throwing arm is a tricky thing, but added muscle (in the wrong places) is a bad thing. As a former pitcher I can relate to Freddy here. One day I threw a shut out, then the rest of the season my velocity was totally gone.

 

I can buy the mass amount of innings he's piled up as a problem -- as you saw a decline in 2005 -- but steroids seems like a crap excuse to me. Maybe a pitcher can benefit from steroids by strengthening their legs, but if you bulk the arm too much, it doesn't flow through the slot the same.

 

If anyone can remember a few years back James Baldwin had the problem of bulking up too much.

 

A baseball player is born with his throwing arm...it can be strengthened to add 1-3 MPH, but not 10, as Freddy's drop off here is suggesting.

 

Steroids are MUCH more helpful in terms of recovery time for relief pitchers, which is why bullpens around baseball are worse than ever this year IMO.

[BobDylan]

Steroids are MUCH more helpful in terms of recovery time for relief pitchers, which is why bullpens around baseball are worse than ever this year IMO.

 

I've never been on the juice, but I can buy recovery time.

 

We should've shot Politte with the juice.

Edited August 6, 2006 by BobDylan