Who will be the best QB in the league this year?

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(Palehosefan @ Aug 10, 2006 -> 12:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hines first two years in the league he was transitioning from his college QB position to learning the WR position. He's the most complete WR in the game. He gets 1,000+ yards each year in a run dominated offense.

 

Lets take a look at some teams passing numbers from last year.

Arizona, passed the ball by far the most in the NFL, with 44 more attempts than the next closest team. Passed the ball 670 times.

St. Louis, 4th on the list with 599 passing attempts.

Cincinatti, 12th in the league in pass attempts with 538.

Pittsburgh? Last in the league in passing attempts, 10 away from the next closest. 379 attempts.

 

Arizona threw the ball 44% more of the time than Pittsburgh, St. Louis 37% more, Cincy 30% more. Yet Hines still almost managed another 1,000 yard season. Hines accounted for 33.3% of his teams passing totals.

 

Compared to Holt's 32.9%, Fitzgerald's 31.8%, Johnson's 37.5%, and Smith's ridiculous 47%.

 

Hines compares very well.

 

You can't possibly be saying that Ronnie Brown, Cadillac Williams, or Thomas Jones are top 5 RB's in the NFL are you? Hines Ward is barely 30 years old, he's not exactly a geezer on his way down.

 

As for Aaron Brooks, have you ever actually watched him play QB? Take a look at 4 of his last 5 years, not counting last year when he was without any running game, and a banged up Joe Horn for most of the year.

 

2001-2004 average season for Brooks.

3,690 yards, 57% completions, 25 TD's, 15 INT's, 240 rushing yards, 2.3 TD's

 

Compare to say, Donovan McNabb

Donovan McNabb's 4 best seasons.

3,422 yards, 58% completions, 24 TD's, 11 INT's, 422 rushing yards, 3.5 TD's

 

Not bad huh?

I know he was switching positions, but I don't care. All college WRs have to make huge adjustments when they get to the NFL. That is just the way it is. Basically none of them know or understand how to run routes. In college they rely on pure god given ability. In the pros there are a lot of things that they have to learn and adjust to regardless of the position they played in college. That was a weak argument.

 

It is nice how you use the stats that ONLY backup your argument and twist them in that way. It is not my fault, nor other players' fault who and what team they play for. They can do nothing about that. So I don't care what system throws more than others. As far as percentage of a passing offense, Hines Ward is only close to comparable because he was the only passing weapon they had. Antwan Randle El is a 3rd down receiver, not a good #2. Fitzgerald has Boldin, Holt has Bruce and whatever 3rd receiver they decide to use in any given year, Johnson has Houzehmanzeda (or something like that), Smith -47%- again because he had no one else to throw the ball to. To compare % of passing offense is ridiculous. It doesn't even make sense.

 

When did I ever say that Ronnie Brown, Cadillac Williams, or Thomas Jones are top 5 RB's? I said they are better than Corey Dillon and Curtis Martin are at this point in time. Just as Larry Fitzgerald and Steve Smith are better than Hines Ward are at this point in time. Just because one player has a longer history of being good does not mean that the younger player is not better. Ward is only 2 years younger than Dillon and 3 years younger than Martin. Ward is not a geezer, but he is not young. He is not 23 or 27 as Fitz and Steve Smith are. Ward is as good as he will get, this is it, he won't be getting any better. Fitz and Smith may and even if they don't, they are still better than Hines Ward is or ever was.

 

Aaron Brooks had to GOOD years. The rest were s***. His yards were high, but TD to INT ratio? Horrible. 2001 - 26TDs/21INTs, 2004 - 21TDs/16 INTs, 2005 - 13TDs/17INTs, for those 3 years he has a TD to INT ratio of 60/54. That is what you call a good QB? And it isn't like he has been getting better, he has actually gone backwards. 2002 and 2003 were his 2 best years. 2004-2005 combined he has a TD to INT ratio of 34/33. That is absolutely horrible.

 

Whoever said McNabb was a great QB? He has had 1 great year with the rest so-so. McNabb's QB skills are not what makes him a great player. He is a great leader. That is something Brooks definitely is not and never was. Brooks is a mediocre QB at best. He is a fill in until Andrew Walter or someone else is ready to become the number 1. That is all he is.

 

 

QUOTE(MHizzle85 @ Aug 10, 2006 -> 06:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

LT, why have people started to overlook him for LJ?

 

Simple. LJ is better. LT breaks down at the end of the year and kills your playoffs and championship hopes.

[Palehosefan]

I'm going to let this go, so others can have the thread back. Fun argument.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(Palehosefan @ Aug 11, 2006 -> 03:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm going to let this go, so others can have the thread back. Fun argument.

 

If it is fun, then please keep it going. I don't see how you can possibly keep it going.

[Palehosefan]

I know he was switching positions, but I don't care. All college WRs have to make huge adjustments when they get to the NFL. That is just the way it is. Basically none of them know or understand how to run routes. In college they rely on pure god given ability. In the pros there are a lot of things that they have to learn and adjust to regardless of the position they played in college. That was a weak argument.

 

Take this for example. That is simply not true. Do you honestly think college coaches don't teach players how to run proper routes? Do you think it's some magical line of thinking that only clicks in the NFL? Of course players get by more on talent at the college level, but that line of thinking can be said for every position and is obsolete. Receivers in the NFL for the most part have been coached by WR coaches for atleast 4 years, Hines had no coaching in the area until the NFL.

 

That is a reason why this argument is over.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(Palehosefan @ Aug 11, 2006 -> 03:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Take this for example. That is simply not true. Do you honestly think college coaches don't teach players how to run proper routes? Do you think it's some magical line of thinking that only clicks in the NFL? Of course players get by more on talent at the college level, but that line of thinking can be said for every position and is obsolete. Receivers in the NFL for the most part have been coached by WR coaches for atleast 4 years, Hines had no coaching in the area until the NFL.

 

That is a reason why this argument is over.

 

Are you kidding me? WRs come from college and know how to run routes? You can't be serious. Just as RBs do not know how to properly block in the NFL. There are exceptions to both of these rules, but they are not the norms. You know for a fact that WRs in college are taught how to run routes? If that is the case then WRs like David Terrell, Charles Rogers, and Mike Williams are horrible learners. Why do you think that it is normal for must WRs in the league to bust out in their 3rd or 4th season and not before hand? Because they lack talent? Come on now. Give me a break.

 

Plus then we get this bit of information:

 

As a wide receiver for the University of Georgia Bulldogs (1995-1998), Ward's 144 career receptions for 1,965 yards landed him second on the school's team history. He also played tailback and quarterback, and totalled 3,870 all-purpose yards, second only to Herschel Walker in Bulldogs history. Coming out of college it was discovered that Ward was missing an ACL. Some say this negatively affected his position in the NFL draft. He received his bachelor's degree in consumer economics from UGA, where he became a member of Phi Beta Sigma Fraternity.

 

Hines Ward didn't play WR in college, nor was he coached by WR coaches in college? Really? That's definitely true? How about Anquan Boldin was he? He played WR and QB in college as well. He seemed to adjust to his new position a lot faster than Ward did. And that was before Denny Green took over the Cardinals.

 

The argument is over because you don't have a leg to stand on in either the Brooks argument or the Ward argument.

Edited August 11, 2006 by southsideirish

[Palehosefan]

The argument is over because you don't have a leg to stand on in either the Brooks argument or the Ward argument.

 

lmao, how can I argue with that?

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(Palehosefan @ Aug 11, 2006 -> 04:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

lmao, how can I argue with that?

 

or this:

 

As a wide receiver for the University of Georgia Bulldogs (1995-1998), Ward's 144 career receptions for 1,965 yards landed him second on the school's team history.

 

You can't. He was a receiver in college. Hmmmmm. Now what can you base your ridiculous arguments on?

[GoodAsGould]

or this:

 

As a wide receiver for the University of Georgia Bulldogs (1995-1998), Ward's 144 career receptions for 1,965 yards landed him second on the school's team history.

 

You can't. He was a receiver in college. Hmmmmm. Now what can you base your ridiculous arguments on?

 

He was primarily a QB though wasnt he. You really need to lighten up no need to get all pissy pissy over this.

[Chisoxfn]

And the Colts fan says Peyton Manning is the best QB in the league.

And the Bears fan says that he's the biggest piece of garbage in the league

[witesoxfan]

I still say JP Losman is going to be the best QB in the NFL this year

[DBAHO]

I still say JP Losman is going to be the best QB in the NFL this year

And I still say I have better chance of being Seattle's new General Manager than that happening.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Aug 11, 2006 -> 06:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He was primarily a QB though wasnt he. You really need to lighten up no need to get all pissy pissy over this.

 

 

 

Of course he was, but that doesn't mean that he came into the league with absolutely no concept of how to play the position. The fact is he did play the position in college and he did receive coaching in college at that position. He is the 2nd leading receiver in the history of the University of Georgia. He is not Matt Jones.

 

 

 

Don't judge on how I write or post about how I feel about a subject. You really shouldn't do that.

[GoodAsGould]

Of course he was, but that doesn't mean that he came into the league with absolutely no concept of how to play the position. The fact is he did play the position in college and he did receive coaching in college at that position. He is the 2nd leading receiver in the history of the University of Georgia. He is not Matt Jones.

 

 

 

Don't judge on how I write or post about how I feel about a subject. You really shouldn't do that.

 

Why would I care how you feel... I dont care if your sad/mad/happy whatevr if your being an ass your still being an ass. But anyways no he wasnt as raw as Matt Jones is as a WR but he was still primarily a QB and he wasnt tuning his skills as a WR in college like other elite WR's in the NFL were. Im not saying he is top5 but he is pretty close and I can see an argument being made for him.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Aug 12, 2006 -> 09:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why would I care how you feel... I dont care if your sad/mad/happy whatevr if your being an ass your still being an ass. But anyways no he wasnt as raw as Matt Jones is as a WR but he was still primarily a QB and he wasnt tuning his skills as a WR in college like other elite WR's in the NFL were. Im not saying he is top5 but he is pretty close and I can see an argument being made for him.

 

IF you don't care, then why did you post "don't get all pissy pissy over it". Obviously you care at some point or you wouldn't have wrote it.

 

He was primarily a QB but still played enough WR to have the 2nd highest yards in school history as a WR. He must have played that position a lot more than other receivers at his university during his college career to do that. How do you know he was not tuning his skills in college like other elite WRs in the NFL were? You know for a fact how Torry Holt, Steve Smith, Randy Moss, Marvin Harrison, and others like them were coached in college? I don't think you do, and I think you are assuming way too much.

 

There is no argument that could be made for Hines Ward as a top 5 WR. Top 10 yes, top 5, no freaking way. He just doesn't have that type of talent. He is not in the same category as Torry Holt, Terrell Owens, Larry Fitzgerald, Chad Johnson, Steve Smith, Marvin Harrison, Randy Moss... He fits in with the group after that, not any higher.

Edited August 13, 2006 by southsideirish

[cuddlyboy26]

Rex Grossman will be the best QB in the league this year.

[JoeBatterz]

Peyton Manning

[SoxFan1]

HAD to bump this thread.

 

Gotta love the Culpepper and Grossman comments.

Edited October 10, 2006 by SoxFan1

[witesoxfan]

Losman was solid until he played the Bears. I was almost right so far

[ZoomSlowik]

I still say Culpepper has some good weapons, he just doesn't seem have the ability to take advantage of them anymore. Obviously he's a little rusty. The offensive line doesn't appear to be helping his cause either. I thought his early 2005 performance was a fluke partially brought on by a weak receiving core, but it's not looking like it.

 

My bigger miss was McNabb, I underestimated him big time. Obviously he still has enough weapons to do some serious damage. I guess I didn't give him enough credit for 04 and put to much stock in his other years.

Edited October 10, 2006 by ZoomSlowik

[Felix]

HAD to bump this thread.

 

Gotta love the Culpepper and Grossman comments.

I was looking for this thread yesterday, couldn't find it. Nice find

 

I don't like Culpepper, never have, and doubt he'll do well in Miami (but as I said, I don't like him).

swish