If I or anyone believe the following statements...

[IggyD]

The brutal and indiscriminate attack upon the people and infrastructure of Lebanon by the Zionist State "Israel" is a crime against all basic standards of decency and humanity.

 

The excuse given for this murderous invasion was the attack by Hezbollah on the IDF. What this might have to do with the hundreds of thousands of Lebanese innocent men, women and children, who are subjected to an ongoing living hell, is beyond comprehension.

 

Indeed, this current aggression is only the second chapter of the recent viciousness; the first being the furious reinvasion of Gaza and the onslaught on its civilians and the ruination of its basic human services.

 

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I do believe these statements to be true and find they are directed at the government and not the people...what are your thoughts.

 

I will post a link from where the statements originated later for further discussion.

[Rex Kickass]

I'm leaving this open - but with a very clear warning. Play nice. Got it?

[IggyD]

I'm leaving this open - but with a very clear warning. Play nice. Got it?

 

I always do....

 

Rex... I am not sure why I am getting a warning...does this seem attacking in some way...I only want to spark discussion.

[Rex Kickass]

This isn't a warning to one person, Iggy. It's a warning to anyone talking in this thread.

 

This isn't a warning to one person, Iggy. It's a warning to anyone talking in this thread.

[IggyD]

This isn't a warning to one person, Iggy. It's a warning to anyone talking in this thread.

 

This isn't a warning to one person, Iggy. It's a warning to anyone talking in this thread.

 

Oh...I totally understand

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

The brutal and indiscriminate attack upon the people and infrastructure of Lebanon by the Zionist State "Israel" is a crime against all basic standards of decency and humanity.

 

The excuse given for this murderous invasion was the attack by Hezbollah on the IDF. What this might have to do with the hundreds of thousands of Lebanese innocent men, women and children, who are subjected to an ongoing living hell, is beyond comprehension.

 

Indeed, this current aggression is only the second chapter of the recent viciousness; the first being the furious reinvasion of Gaza and the onslaught on its civilians and the ruination of its basic human services.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I do believe these statements to be true and find they are directed at the government and not the people...what are your thoughts.

 

I will post a link from where the statements originated later for further discussion.

 

 

Here we go again. The Isrealies are not the aggressors here, the Islamo-fascist Hezbollah thugs and their Syrian and Iranian backers are. What is it going to take to get it through some people's heads that Syria and Iran are using Hezbollah to achieve the dual aim of attacking Isreal's credibility and to attack them physically?

 

Those remarks dont make you an anti-semite. They make you wrong and ignorant of what's going on over there. Anyone with any perceptive ability can see that this is a proxy war being fought by Iran and Syria against Isreal.

Edited August 6, 2006 by NUKE_CLEVELAND

[samclemens]

i see we have our latest addition to the terror-apologist crowd. dont you have some youtube video made by college students to post about this too, iggy?

[Texsox]

From a slightly different angle, is it possible to disagree with Israel's actions and reactions and the strategy they are taking, and not be perceived as an anti-semite? In most corners it seems not. Even though there are citizens in Israel that disagree with the current path, anyone else will come off as a hater.

 

Israel is in a difficult situation. They are expected to always take the higher, moral path. To turn the other cheek.

 

With the US footing the bill for much of their defense, but directly to them and in payments to their enemies to be nice, I believe the US should have a loud voice in Israel's actions and reactions.

[Balta1701]

From a slightly different angle, is it possible to disagree with Israel's actions and reactions and the strategy they are taking, and not be perceived as an anti-semite? In most corners it seems not. Even though there are citizens in Israel that disagree with the current path, anyone else will come off as a hater.

See, this thread is a perfect illustration of the problem I have with this whole debate. Anyone who has any problem with what Israel is currently doing, either with their planning behind this offensive, or their methods of carrying it out, or any other act they've taken, is immediately labeled as part of the "Terrorist apologist crowd." Never mind that people could have honest differences of opinion over whether or not a particular tactic is either legal or effective, whether you get called an anti-semite or not, the immediate response to any questioning of the campaign, of any sort is "My God, why are you on Hezbollah's side?" Even when you criticize the actions of both sides, you get challenged as supporting terrorists.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

See, this thread is a perfect illustration of the problem I have with this whole debate. Anyone who has any problem with what Israel is currently doing, either with their planning behind this offensive, or their methods of carrying it out, or any other act they've taken, is immediately labeled as part of the "Terrorist apologist crowd." Never mind that people could have honest differences of opinion over whether or not a particular tactic is either legal or effective, whether you get called an anti-semite or not, the immediate response to any questioning of the campaign, of any sort is "My God, why are you on Hezbollah's side?" Even when you criticize the actions of both sides, you get challenged as supporting terrorists.

 

 

I dont think those who disagree with Isreal's methods are anti-semitic. I just think they're wrong.

[minors]

Here we go again. The Isrealies are not the aggressors here, the Islamo-fascist Hezbollah thugs and their Syrian and Iranian backers are. What is it going to take to get it through some people's heads that Syria and Iran are using Hezbollah to achieve the dual aim of attacking Isreal's credibility and to attack them physically?

 

Those remarks dont make you an anti-semite. They make you wrong and ignorant of what's going on over there. Anyone with any perceptive ability can see that this is a proxy war being fought by Iran and Syria against Isreal.

 

 

They will never understand Nuke. Iran and Syria are threats and people who don't see that are ignorant.

[southsider2k5]

See, this thread is a perfect illustration of the problem I have with this whole debate. Anyone who has any problem with what Israel is currently doing, either with their planning behind this offensive, or their methods of carrying it out, or any other act they've taken, is immediately labeled as part of the "Terrorist apologist crowd." Never mind that people could have honest differences of opinion over whether or not a particular tactic is either legal or effective, whether you get called an anti-semite or not, the immediate response to any questioning of the campaign, of any sort is "My God, why are you on Hezbollah's side?" Even when you criticize the actions of both sides, you get challenged as supporting terrorists.

 

Now personally I don't see it as that bad at all. Granted there are the 2% in any debate who lack substance and intelligence and instantly resort to namecalling to gain the upperhand in an arguement, but their points are worthless to me anyway. The big problem is because of the history of the Jewish people, there is a stigma associated with being an anti-semite, vs being just about any other form of racist, so for whatever reason when that accusation is leveled, peoples ears perk up and wait to see the car-wreck. Even just within this example, being called a "Zionist" hardly bats an eye, but let someone call you an anti-semite, and you'll have pages of problems.

 

I think the biggest problem that I have personally observed in this arguement, fits pretty well into the typical pattern of many who have no idea what the history of these conflicts is, and tries to fit these problems conveiently under the lights of 2006 politics. So far, I haven't seen anything really resembling true racism within these arguements, althought Iggy's opening statement is pretty ignorantly worded, and could be headed down the road of anti-semetic depending on what other substance came with the arguement. That little snippet is definately one-sided at best, and definately eskews one side from any responsiblity for their recent actions, IMHO.

[Texsox]

I dont think those who disagree with Isreal's methods are anti-semitic. I just think they're wrong.

It's worked well so far . . .

 

 

They will never understand Nuke. Iran and Syria are threats and people who don't see that are ignorant.

 

It's not that people don't see them as threats, it's the best path to avoid sensless killings and forge some peaceful solution that reasonable, intelligent, people disagree with.

[IggyD]

So far, I haven't seen anything really resembling true racism within these arguements, althought Iggy's opening statement is pretty ignorantly worded, and could be headed down the road of anti-semetic depending on what other substance came with the arguement. That little snippet is definately one-sided at best, and definately eskews one side from any responsiblity for their recent actions, IMHO.

 

 

I agree with your initial views, however I did not write those statements.

 

Most of you gave very honest answers and a few only looked for a way to attack the poster.

 

Here is the site I got the opening statements from. http://www.nkusa.org/activities/Statements/2006July18.cfm

 

I find it hard for a Jew to be Anti-Semite. That is why I had said that is was directed at the government and not the people.

 

I see the same here in this country when persons bring their view forward that are against the government they are call anti-patriotic and worse. Is it the lack of respect for our allowing the right to freedom of thought or opinion unless they agree with us 100%?

 

Why have we become so wrapped in the political parties and not the idea of what started this country. In this day and age we should be using our military and political might to keep people from killing others period.

 

This conflict will only stiffen the resolve and give reason to those that hate this country. It is our responsibility to lead in being peace keepers where and when we can.

 

I do not think Israel is wrong to protect its self or exisist. However many forget what happened the day before the soldiers were taken. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5065008.stm

 

Prior to this happening there was a cease fire that held for almost a full year.

Edited August 7, 2006 by IggyD

[southsider2k5]

I agree with your initial views, however I did not write those statements.

 

To be fair, you did say that you believe them to be true FWIW.

[CanOfCorn]

We also have to keep in mind the history of these two groups.

 

On the one hand, we have Israel, who was given land after WWII. They have been attacked more than once and beaten back their opponents. They are constantly on alert for another attack/invasion.

 

On the other hand, you have a people who don't have a land and aren't accepted within the countries in and around Israel. Which would include Muslim countries like Jordan and Syria...and Iran. The Palestinians want their own land and won't take no for an answer, but no land around them want them either.

 

So, you have one group that is constant jumpy and one group that is homeless, for the most part. This is going to breed hatred and violence until it either blows up into WWIII or all sides decide that this is ridiculous, sit down at a table and don't leave until they figure it out.

 

In the history of the world, how many times has the latter happened? It's not the Israelis fault and it's not the Palestinians fault. It's EVERYONE'S fault, but no one will admit it first.

[Texsox]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Amen

[samclemens]

I do not think Israel is wrong to protect its self or exisist. However many forget what happened the day before the soldiers were taken. http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article4793.shtml

 

Prior to this happening there was a cease fire that held for almost a full year.

 

perhaps, since you are so fair and unbiased, you should include the reason for israel shelling that beach. nice source, by the way (so credible- electronic intifada).

 

not to mention the fact that hezbollah has released numerous statements which said they had been planning the abductions of the soldiers for months in advance. therefore, the shellings the day before in GAZA had NOTHING to with the abductions on the LEBANESE BORDER, which is on a complete different side of the country. hezbollah is only in southern lebanon, chief.

 

of course, if you respond to my post, be sure not to respond to any of my counterpoints and to cite more crap websites as your "sources".

[Soxbadger]

Being anti-Israel and anti-semetic are very different things.

 

One you disagree with the actions of a country.

 

The other you dislike a certain religious group.

[Rex Kickass]

perhaps, since you are so fair and unbiased, you should include the reason for israel shelling that beach. nice source, by the way (so credible- electronic intifada).

 

not to mention the fact that hezbollah has released numerous statements which said they had been planning the abductions of the soldiers for months in advance. therefore, the shellings the day before in GAZA had NOTHING to with the abductions on the LEBANESE BORDER, which is on a complete different side of the country. hezbollah is only in southern lebanon, chief.

 

of course, if you respond to my post, be sure not to respond to any of my counterpoints and to cite more crap websites as your "sources".

 

Seriously, you never source. Ever. So I'd even trust his crap sources before I trust your non-sources. So stop with the sourcing crap already.

[samclemens]

Seriously, you never source. Ever. So I'd even trust his crap sources before I trust your non-sources. So stop with the sourcing crap already.

what are you talking about? off the top of my head, why dont you go look at the last page of the "gaza, israel" thread. i dont cite stuff that is widely known or that ive seen in the news a bunch of times. AND when i do source, it's from breitbart, foxnews, other widely read stuff that at least has a shred of credibility (as opposed to iggy, who cites either the above garbage or a youtube video). the most biased site ive ever cited here would have to be "ynet", a pro-israeli newspaper. so maybe you could explain to me where you are coming from? i do cite all the time, do you have me mixed up with someone else?

 

you would trust a site called electronicintifada.net over those? good for you. see what you want to, i guess.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

what are you talking about? off the top of my head, why dont you go look at the last page of the "gaza, israel" thread. i dont cite stuff that is widely known or that ive seen in the news a bunch of times. AND when i do source, it's from breitbart, foxnews, other widely read stuff that at least has a shred of credibility (as opposed to iggy, who cites either the above garbage or a youtube video). the most biased site ive ever cited here would have to be "ynet", a pro-israeli newspaper. so maybe you could explain to me where you are coming from? i do cite all the time, do you have me mixed up with someone else?

 

you would trust a site called electronicintifada.net over those? good for you. see what you want to, i guess.

I'd trust EI over Faux News for sure -- mainly because they aren't given memos of how they're supposed to make the news stories look every day.

[Balta1701]

I'd trust EI over Faux News for sure -- mainly because they aren't given memos of how they're supposed to make the news stories look every day.

Really? Wow, I wouldn't go that far as to say that it's more trustworthy than Fox...both of them have a strongly ideological bent, EI towards the Palestinian cause and Fox towards the Republicans, but I think there are more news organizations capable of fact-checking Fox News than there are EI pieces simply because Fox is an American network, so there at least has to be some measure of accountability on their part. They can't just go and say that a new study shows that Democrats cause Cancer, because someone would catch them (i.e. Reuters.) But with an organization like EI, yeah they probably do a lot of excellent work, but in all cases, it's going to be harder for any other organization to confirm their reports solely because of access issues.

[longshot7]

The term Zionist is itself anti-semitic.

[southsider2k5]

The term Zionist is itself anti-semitic.

 

Maybe in the last few years when used by certian groups as a term of derision, but historically it wasn't meant anything like it is used by the enemies of Israel today.