Javier Vasguez

[bigredrudy]

Everyone is euphoric about his last effort. Bu in his career Javy has had games like this before. I think the trade for Javy may turn out to be the one of the worst in Sox history. Chris Young is putting up monster numbers in the PCL. I have ahunch that Young could be the next Alfonso Soriano.

[BobDylan]

Okay, cool.

[beautox]

Okay, cool.

 

I lolled at that.

[BobDylan]

I lolled at that.

 

You're one of my biggest fans. I've lolled you twice now.

[santo=dorf]

Well, that's a new way to spell Javy's last name incorrectly.

Edited August 6, 2006 by santo=dorf

[Adam G]

Who was the last propsect Kenny Williams traded that ended up being really good in the pros?

[beautox]

You're one of my biggest fans. I've lolled you twice now.

 

indeed, soxtalk is always good for a laugh.

[CWSOX45]

Who was the last propsect Kenny Williams traded that ended up being really good in the pros?

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Jeremy Reed. He hit .400 in AA, and now the Mariners have a future Ted Williams.

 

Meanwhile all we got for him was a starter that pitched 8 shutout innings in Game 4 of the World Series.

 

I really hope Kenny learns from his mistakes, and never trades another prospect from our fantastic farm system.

[Baines3]

I have been a White Sox fan for 30 years but trading for Vazquez was one of the worst I have ever seen, and believe me I have seen some bad ones over the years.

[Steve9347]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Jeremy Reed. He hit .400 in AA, and now the Mariners have a future Ted Williams.

 

Meanwhile all we got for him was a starter that pitched 8 shutout innings in Game 4 of the World Series.

 

I really hope Kenny learns from his mistakes, and never trades another prospect from our fantastic farm system.

 

What are you talking about?!?! Give the guy some time! You guys are dogging him right after he goes 8 innings with 2 hits against and 13k's!! wtf?

[SkokieSox]

I have been a White Sox fan for 30 years but trading for Vazquez was one of the worst I have ever seen, and believe me I have seen some bad ones over the years.

How's that?

[Wedge]

How's that?

 

He was asleep for the Todd Richie trade as well as the David Wells one. Let's not forget the Jamie Navarro instead of Roger Clemens signing or the Albert Belle instead of Bonds....

[beck72]

I have been a White Sox fan for 30 years but trading for Vazquez was one of the worst I have ever seen, and believe me I have seen some bad ones over the years.

It's far, far too early to say that. Chris Young hasn't played a game in the bigs and the absence of El Duque and Vizcaino this year really hasn't hurt the sox.

[Milkman delivers]

He was asleep for the Todd Richie trade as well as the David Wells one. Let's not forget the Jamie Navarro instead of Roger Clemens signing or the Albert Belle instead of Bonds....

 

Uh, the Todd Ritchie trade and the Wells trade weren't even bad, when you think about it. We gave up a bunch of losers in both of those deals. If we didn't make those trades, we'd still have sucked.

[winninguglyin83]

hate to pour water on a good story line, but Belle and Navarro were Ron Schuler and Jerry Reinsdorf productions.

[Dick Allen]

He was asleep for the Todd Richie trade as well as the David Wells one. Let's not forget the Jamie Navarro instead of Roger Clemens signing or the Albert Belle instead of Bonds....

The Ritchie trade was bad, Kip Wells won as many games as Ritchie did the previous season and he was younger and cheaper. No one turned into a superstar but Wells and Fogg could have helped the White Sox in subsequent years. Fogg in the bullpen, and Kip Wells as the #5 starter. David Wells wasn't a bad trade. KW gave up nobody who did anything on the major league level ever again. Sirotka never played in the major leagues again and Simmons was so bad the White Sox re-aquired him the next spring off waivers I believe and wound up releasing him. Navarro over Clemens was Schueler, and if you look at their records, you could see why he chose Navarro over Clemens at the time. Clemens was 1 game over .500 the previous 4 seasons combined I believe and had a very high ERA. Navarro was coming off a couple of very impressive seasons with the Cubs, and had had some success in Milwaukee. In fact, Navarro was at least as successful in his major league career as Javy Vazquez had been when they were acquired. Schueler was also the GM when Albert Belle signed instead of trading for Barry Bonds. Bonds wouldn't have been long for the White Sox, and I'm glad he didn't because if Barry Bonds was a White Sox this board would be filled with denial of his cheating. All I know is when KW traded for Vazquez, he may have penciled him in as the fifth starter, but he didn't expect him to pitch like one. And anyone who says he's better than any fifth starter in recent White Sox history forgets that Esteban Loaisa was the fifth starter at the beginning of the year in 2003. He didn't do too bad that year.

[santo=dorf]

Dick, the post Wedge made about "being asleep" was about whitesox1976, not KW.

 

Steve Sax trade also fishing sucked too.

[Wedge]

The Ritchie trade was bad, Kip Wells won as many games as Ritchie did the previous season and he was younger and cheaper. No one turned into a superstar but Wells and Fogg could have helped the White Sox in subsequent years. Fogg in the bullpen, and Kip Wells as the #5 starter. David Wells wasn't a bad trade. KW gave up nobody who did anything on the major league level ever again. Sirotka never played in the major leagues again and Simmons was so bad the White Sox re-aquired him the next spring off waivers I believe and wound up releasing him. Navarro over Clemens was Schueler, and if you look at their records, you could see why he chose Navarro over Clemens at the time. Clemens was 1 game over .500 the previous 4 seasons combined I believe and had a very high ERA. Navarro was coming off a couple of very impressive seasons with the Cubs, and had had some success in Milwaukee. In fact, Navarro was at least as successful in his major league career as Javy Vazquez had been when they were acquired. Schueler was also the GM when Albert Belle signed instead of trading for Barry Bonds. Bonds wouldn't have been long for the White Sox, and I'm glad he didn't because if Barry Bonds was a White Sox this board would be filled with denial of his cheating. All I know is when KW traded for Vazquez, he may have penciled him in as the fifth starter, but he didn't expect him to pitch like one. And anyone who says he's better than any fifth starter in recent White Sox history forgets that Esteban Loaisa was the fifth starter at the beginning of the year in 2003. He didn't do too bad that year.

 

I understand Wells and Richie were Schueler trades but the original poster said something about the "last 30 years" not just under KW.

 

Also, "Fifth Starter" is as meaningless a designation for a starting pitcher as is "Ace" but if you want to be technical, I think everyone had Danny Wright penciled in as "Fifth Starter" in 2003. A better "Fifth Starter" example would be 2005 Jon Garland.

[BobDylan]

hate to pour water on a good story line, but Belle and Navarro were Ron Schuler and Jerry Reinsdorf productions.

 

And this thread is about franchise history.

[Butter Parque]

I understand Wells and Richie were Schueler trades but the original poster said something about the "last 30 years" not just under KW.

 

Actually both the Wells and Ritchie trades were from KW. I believe the Wells trade was his first move of his GM career.

 

 

Every Trade Ken Williams has ever made

[hammerhead johnson]

I have been a White Sox fan for 30 years but trading for Vazquez was one of the worst I have ever seen, and believe me I have seen some bad ones over the years.

 

I am assuming that you were you born in 1976? You started watching Sox games the minute that you popped out of the womb?

 

Also, when you're in your pre-pubescent years, you ain't reading the sports section and keeping up with technical spiff. You're watching Transformers or whatever. Sure, you might watch some games with your dad, but you ain't reading jack spiff, which is what it's all about if you truly expect to have an informed opinion.

 

Don't lie to me, yo.

Edited August 7, 2006 by hammerhead johnson

[witesoxfan]

I have been a White Sox fan for 30 years but trading for Vazquez was one of the worst I have ever seen, and believe me I have seen some bad ones over the years.

 

Because Duque has done so much with Arizona and now New York, Vizcaino turned into one of the best middle relievers in the NL, and Chris Young is a blooming superstar, while Vazquez has been horrendous for years on the South Side.

 

You won't be able to tell if this is one of the worst trades in team history for years. KW liked Vazquez enough that he traded his top prospect for him(given, that's completely arguable, but Young probably was our best all-around prospect at the time he was dealt). Give it more than 4 months to determine if it's one of the worst trades in years...that is all I ask. Hell, regardless of how well he pitches from here on out, he will probably end up pitching in some pretty big games down the stretch, and perhaps even the postseason if the Sox are lucky enough to get there. Wait till then.

[bigredrudy]

Because Duque has done so much with Arizona and now New York, Vizcaino turned into one of the best middle relievers in the NL, and Chris Young is a blooming superstar, while Vazquez has been horrendous for years on the South Side.

 

You won't be able to tell if this is one of the worst trades in team history for years. KW liked Vazquez enough that he traded his top prospect for him(given, that's completely arguable, but Young probably was our best all-around prospect at the time he was dealt). Give it more than 4 months to determine if it's one of the worst trades in years...that is all I ask. Hell, regardless of how well he pitches from here on out, he will probably end up pitching in some pretty big games down the stretch, and perhaps even the postseason if the Sox are lucky enough to get there. Wait till then.

The worst thing about the trade with Arizona is that we lost Young. He is putting up monster numbers-27 doubles 4 triples and 21 home runs. he is near the top in every hitting category except batting average and it continues to rise. After a slow start he has been on fire. The thing about prospects is whether they improve. As he has gone up the line Young has continued to get better. In A Ball he struck out over 140 times- this year he has only struck out 66 times. And of course Young is fast and a good outfielder. Arizona already has him penciled as their center fielder for 2007

[beck72]

The worst thing about the trade with Arizona is that we lost Young. He is putting up monster numbers-27 doubles 4 triples and 21 home runs. he is near the top in every hitting category except batting average and it continues to rise. After a slow start he has been on fire. The thing about prospects is whether they improve. As he has gone up the line Young has continued to get better. In A Ball he struck out over 140 times- this year he has only struck out 66 times. And of course Young is fast and a good outfielder. Arizona already has him penciled as their center fielder for 2007

Young wasn't going to help the sox in 2006.

 

Let me pose a few questions for you: 1] If Javy helps the sox reach the postseason and gets a few playoff wins, thereby helping the sox repeat, will your assessment of the trade change? 2] Do you believe that Young is a budding star who shouldn't have been traded for anyone, let alone Vazquez?

[benbacca37]

Schueler was also the GM when Albert Belle signed instead of trading for Barry Bonds. Bonds wouldn't have been long for the White Sox, and I'm glad he didn't because if Barry Bonds was a White Sox this board would be filled with denial of his cheating.

 

Another note on the Albert Belle signing, I remember the press conference when they signed Belle and Reinsdorf had Frank up there too saying that he asked Frank who he wanted and he adamently stated Albert Belle.