Javier Vasguez

[hammerhead johnson]

The worst thing about the trade with Arizona is that we lost Young. He is putting up monster numbers-27 doubles 4 triples and 21 home runs. he is near the top in every hitting category except batting average and it continues to rise. After a slow start he has been on fire. The thing about prospects is whether they improve. As he has gone up the line Young has continued to get better. In A Ball he struck out over 140 times- this year he has only struck out 66 times. And of course Young is fast and a good outfielder. Arizona already has him penciled as their center fielder for 2007

 

Do you know for certain that he will succeed against major league pitching? Have you ever even seen him play? What exactly do minor league stats mean? Should we put Roberto Petagine in the Hall Of Fame?

 

I love it how people try to make definitive assessments when discussing minor league players. Observe him on the major league level for a lengthy period of time, and then if he's kicking ass, feel free to run your mouth about how you "thought" he'd be great based on some minor league stats. That is a riot in and of itself.

[bigredrudy]

Young wasn't going to help the sox in 2006.

 

Let me pose a few questions for you: 1] If Javy helps the sox reach the postseason and gets a few playoff wins, thereby helping the sox repeat, will your assessment of the trade change? 2] Do you believe that Young is a budding star who shouldn't have been traded for anyone, let alone Vazquez?

I hope for KW's sake Javy does do well. They did not trade Young to get a 5th starter. They thought Javy was better than that. And that they could do the same thing with Javy that they did with Jose C. And most importantly they got Arizona to pay part of his salary. As for Young I would have more unwilling to trade him than I would have bee4n willing to trade Fields. Any one can tell about about players once they reach the majors. The difficult job is to judge players before they reach the majors. I think the Sox will be sorry they traded Chris Young. So far Javy has done little to help the Sox. His ERA is one of the worst in the league. We'll see how he does in his next few starts. Everyone is assuming he has turned the corner. We'll see.

[Heads22]

I hope for KW's sake Javy does do well. They did not trade Young to get a 5th starter. They thought Javy was better than that. And that they could do the same thing with Javy that they did with Jose C. And most importantly they got Arizona to pay part of his salary. As for Young I would have more unwilling to trade him than I would have bee4n willing to trade Fields. Any one can tell about about players once they reach the majors. The difficult job is to judge players before they reach the majors. I think the Sox will be sorry they traded Chris Young. So far Javy has done little to help the Sox. His ERA is one of the worst in the league. We'll see how he does in his next few starts. Everyone is assuming he has turned the corner. We'll see.

 

 

Fields wasn't half the prospect then that he is now.

[VAfan]

I, too, groaned over the loss of Chris Young. But you have to put this trade in some perspective.

 

At the time we acquired Vazquez, we did not have Garland or Contreras under contract extensions. We were facing the potential exodus of probably our two best starters, with McCarthy at best available to fill one of those potential holes. By bringing in Vazquez, I think it helped KW make the case to both Garland and Contreras to sign the contracts they did.

 

Now, has Vazquez turned it around? Certainly he has to prove it. Is Vazquez a big-game pitcher? Well, he's never pitched a big game in his life. But stuff-wise, he's as good as we have right now. And he has had good stretches during most of his seasons. We just need him to put one of those together over the next two months.

[bigredrudy]

Do you know for certain that he will succeed against major league pitching? Have you ever even seen him play? What exactly do minor league stats mean? Should we put Roberto Petagine in the Hall Of Fame?

 

I love it how people try to make definitive assessments when discussing minor league players. Observe him on the major league level for a lengthy period of time, and then if he's kicking ass, feel free to run your mouth about how you "thought" he'd be great based on some minor league stats. That is a riot in and of itself.

The trick i8s projecting what a minor league player will do in the majors. Chris Young was rated the 4th best prospect in the Southern League by BA. Ahead of him were Delmon Young, Jeff Francouer, and Jeremy Hermida. The last two are already in the majors. And Delmon Young is the highest rated player in the minors. Again the best thing about Young is the improvement he has shown. He skipped high A ball and went directly to AA-a very good sign. And his strikeouts continue to decline but his power does not. No one can say for sure that a player will succeed in the majors. But I think the odds are very much in his favor. No one can continue to trade prospects on a continuous basis and expect to get away with it. I think KW might have done what most GMs fear-trade away outstanding young player. By the way I have seen young play and he looked good to me.

[Milkman delivers]

I, too, groaned over the loss of Chris Young. But you have to put this trade in some perspective.

 

At the time we acquired Vazquez, we did not have Garland or Contreras under contract extensions. We were facing the potential exodus of probably our two best starters, with McCarthy at best available to fill one of those potential holes. By bringing in Vazquez, I think it helped KW make the case to both Garland and Contreras to sign the contracts they did.

 

Now, has Vazquez turned it around? Certainly he has to prove it. Is Vazquez a big-game pitcher? Well, he's never pitched a big game in his life and didn't suck. But stuff-wise, he's as good as we have right now. And he has had good stretches during most of his seasons. We just need him to put one of those together over the next two months.

 

Ask the Yankees.

[bigredrudy]

I, too, groaned over the loss of Chris Young. But you have to put this trade in some perspective.

 

At the time we acquired Vazquez, we did not have Garland or Contreras under contract extensions. We were facing the potential exodus of probably our two best starters, with McCarthy at best available to fill one of those potential holes. By bringing in Vazquez, I think it helped KW make the case to both Garland and Contreras to sign the contracts they did.

 

Now, has Vazquez turned it around? Certainly he has to prove it. Is Vazquez a big-game pitcher? Well, he's never pitched a big game in his life. But stuff-wise, he's as good as we have right now. And he has had good stretches during most of his seasons. We just need him to put one of those together over the next two months.

You make a good point about the possibe loss of Garland and Contreras. But I get sick every time I see what Young is doing. And I really get sick when I see how he has cut down on his strikeouts-unlike Fields who continues to strikeout at an alarming rate.

[OldSox2]

Uh, the Todd Ritchie trade and the Wells trade weren't even bad, when you think about it. We gave up a bunch of losers in both of those deals. If we didn't make those trades, we'd still have sucked.

 

 

The Ritchie trade just cost the Sox a playoff birth that one year, that's all, because Jerry M kept pitching him. Plus both Fogg and Kip wells had good years that year. What ws it, 2002?

[SoxAce]

And I really get sick when I see how he has cut down on his strikeouts

 

Ditto. I'm surprised he has, considering I never liked Chris Young as a spect when he was here.

 

-unlike Fields who continues to strikeout at an alarming rate.

 

You couldn't be more wrong.

Edited August 7, 2006 by SoxAce

[Rowand44]

Ditto. I'm surprised he has, considering I never liked Chris Young as a spect when he was here.

You couldn't be more wrong.

? Fields is striking out at an alarming rate.

[SoxAce]

? Fields is striking out at an alarming rate.

 

Let me break it down. Fields is in his second full season in the minors in his professional career. He is hitting .300+ in AAA which I thought we moved him too quickly considering he struggled a bit in AA. I should have worded it better by saying how he compared to Young's 4+ seasons in the minors cutting down K's whereas Fields has barely been in the minors for a couple of seasons, who has jumped to AAA quickly and who hasn't had the time to cut down his K's (actually come to think of it he K'd 140+ times last season whereas he has only K'd 110+ so far this late in the season)also consider the fact that he K'd more in the beginning of the season than he has now. Now yes, he has to learn to put the ball in play more, but his numbers have all gone up this season and he'll probably walk alittle more as well.

 

EDIT: Didn't know he was also stealing bases as well.

Edited August 7, 2006 by SoxAce

[Rowand44]

Let me break it down. Fields is in his second full season in the minors in his professional career. He is hitting .300+ in AAA which I thought we moved him too quickly considering he struggled a bit in AA. I should have worded it better by saying how he compared Young's 4+ seasons in the minors cutting down K's whereas Fields has barely been in the minors for a couple of seasons, who has jumped to AAA quickly and who hasn't had the time to cut down his K's (actually come to think of it he K'd 140+ times last season whereas he has only K'd 110+ so far this late in the season)also consider the fact that he K'd more in the beginning of the season than he has now. Now yes, he has to learn to put the ball in play more, but his numbers have all gone up this season and he'll probably walk alittle more as well.

 

EDIT: Didn't know he was also stealing bases as well.

Well I didn't realize we were comparing him to Chris. The fact is, yes Fields has made some impressive strides this year but he still has a lot to work on. He still is striking out at an alarming rate, leading me to believe he's no where near ready yet.

[SoxAce]

Well I didn't realize we were comparing him to Chris. The fact is, yes Fields has made some impressive strides this year but he still has a lot to work on. He still is striking out at an alarming rate, leading me to believe he's no where near ready yet.

 

Who said anything about him being ready? All I'm saying is Chris Young hasn't proved jack in the bigs. Someone brought up a nice post about how many spects we've traded who didn't pan out and the only one who has come back to bite us was Maj. Now if the sox won it again this season, or next season we did it, would this even be in discussion? I wouldn't think so.

[Rowand44]

Who said anything about him being ready? All I'm saying is Chris Young hasn't proved jack in the bigs. Someone brought up a nice post about how many spects we've traded who didn't pan out and the only one who has come back to bite us was Maj. Now if the sox won it again this season, or next season we did it, would this even be in discussion? I wouldn't think so.

I wasn't even talking about Chris Young but you brought him up. All I'm saying is that Fields is still k'ing way too much, that's it.

[SoxAce]

I wasn't even talking about Chris Young but you brought him up. All I'm saying is that Fields is still k'ing way too much, that's it.

 

I love you too Rowand.

[CWSGuy406]

Last year, Fields struck out in close to 30% (29.8 is just about the exact figure) of his ABs.

 

This year, he's striking out in 29.7% of his ABs.

 

His K/BB ratio hasn't improved a whole lot, either. Last year it was at 2.58. This year, it's at 2.48.

 

In other words, his handling of the strike zone has changed very little from last year to this year. Obviously, he's hitting the ball with more authority, but he also seems like a guy who has greatly benefited from playing in such a tiny park.

 

If Fields were to make the jump to the majors next season, I'd suspect he'd struggle more than Brian Anderson has this year. Problem is, Fields doesn't have great defense to fall back on like BA had.

 

OTOH, Chris Young is teh awesome.

[Rowand44]

If Fields were to make the jump to the majors next season, I'd suspect he'd struggle more than Brian Anderson has this year. Problem is, Fields doesn't have great defense to fall back on like BA had.

Beat you to it by a minute.

[bigredrudy]

Last year, Fields struck out in close to 30% (29.8 is just about the exact figure) of his ABs.

 

This year, he's striking out in 29.7% of his ABs.

 

His K/BB ratio hasn't improved a whole lot, either. Last year it was at 2.58. This year, it's at 2.48.

 

In other words, his handling of the strike zone has changed very little from last year to this year. Obviously, he's hitting the ball with more authority, but he also seems like a guy who has greatly benefited from playing in such a tiny park.

 

If Fields were to make the jump to the majors next season, I'd suspect he'd struggle more than Brian Anderson has this year. Problem is, Fields doesn't have great defense to fall back on like BA had.

 

OTOH, Chris Young is teh awesome.

BA stated today that ifYoung were still on the Sox, he would be playing center field and Brian A would be in the minors. Read it-it is in the hot sheet

[Hangar18]

hate to pour water on a good story line, but Belle and Navarro were Ron Schuler and Jerry Reinsdorf productions.

 

 

HEH HEH HEH. good one.

As far as the Javy trade goes, I would rather that we pulled a Hendry-ripoff for him. I always had the feeling that Kenny gave away too much for a question mark like Vazquez. Vazquez is destined to be a NL pitcher

[nitetrain8601]

Fact is, Chris Young is the next bonafide Hall of Famer ala Jeremy Reed and Javier Vazquez is poop.

[Rishard101]

I have been saying all along that that trade made absolutely no sense. We gave up a good prospect and an arm we could've used in the bullpen, Duque. Plus why the hell would we trade for a fifth starter when we had McCarthey who pitched great at the end of last year, and wa ready to be a major league starter. INstead we hav Vazquez and his career 5+ ERA

[Soxy]

I have been saying all along that that trade made absolutely no sense. We gave up a good prospect and an arm we could've used in the bullpen, Duque. Plus why the hell would we trade for a fifth starter when we had McCarthey who pitched great at the end of last year, and wa ready to be a major league starter. INstead we hav Vazquez and his career 5+ ERA

Uh-oh, Kenny's pissed off God!

[BHAMBARONS]

I am glad we just got rid of him. Never wanted to pitch for us anyways and made it abundantly clear several times. Glad we got something out of him.

[Balta1701]

I have been saying all along that that trade made absolutely no sense. We gave up a good prospect and an arm we could've used in the bullpen, Duque. Plus why the hell would we trade for a fifth starter when we had McCarthey who pitched great at the end of last year, and was ready to be a major league starter. INstead we hav Vazquez and his career 5+ ERA

Fransisco Liriano says Hi.