I can't take this anymore....

[Wealz]

You know why Ozzie's a terrible manager? Because the Tigers are 73-30 in games not against the White Sox.

[fathom]

Oh come on, Fathom.

 

As a person who has MLB Extra Innings and gets to see LOTS of baseball daily, you're really overexaggerating things.

 

-I don't see how you can blame the baserunning problems on Ozzie. Half the lineup (Konerko/Thome/Pierzynski/Crede) is slow as hell. Our fastest guy doesn't seem very smart on the basepaths. Other than that, you have some average or slightly above/below guys. As far as taking the extra base, those things are on the players, IMO. It's on the guy on first base to see were to see if the RFer is guarding the line or shading the gap, etc etc.

 

-Again, defensively, I don't think you can complain about our guys this year. They're in the top third in DER this season, and were first last season. How many times do we see fielders nearly collide? I don't recall this happening too many times, other than the Iguchi/Dye play, and again -- I don't know how Ozzie factors into that one.

 

 

-Bunting? Well, I don't think that's for a lack of effort. I believe Hawk when he says the Sox have worked on their bunting this year more than last. Again, IMO, that's something that's on the players...

 

I'm not saying Ozzie is perfect. His handling of Buehrle tonight was awful. His handling staff of the starters this year, for the most part, has been awful. His playing Mackowiak in centerfield so often has been awful.

 

But there's also a lot of overexaggeration in this thread, IMO. As I said, watching a lot of baseball games every day, and seeing others fans' thoughts on their own managers; well, let's just say I'm okay with Ozzie. I don't think there are fans of any team in baseball who never complain about their own. It's just unfortunate that our manager's decisions hold so much more weight this year because our f***ing starters suck...

 

 

About once every series, you will see two Sox fielders not communicate well and almost knock each other over. Our base running is awful. How many times will our guys get in a run-down going home with less than 2 outs? Also, our 3rd base coach is awful! Lately, he's been more aggressive when we're down 3 runs than he's been when the game is close. Do you honestly believe we're a fundamentall sound team? I'm not blaming Ozzie specifically for this being a poorly coached team. The only coach earning his paycheck this season is Walker (the whipping boy in previous years). The pitch-calling this season has been puzzling, to say the least.

 

You bring up a good point about our team speed. I think some changes might have to be made to add more speed if possible. SS could be a position where we could upgrade our speed for next season.

Edited August 8, 2006 by fathom

[GoodAsGould]

This team pisses me off sooo much... but thats because there is so much talent and we seem to be struggling despite it. I still have faith that we will get to the playoffs and once in the playoffs anything can happen. I just hope we start a streak soon or at least own up the yanks.

[shoota]

Call me crazy, but I'll keep the World Series trophy and forgo whatever is behind curtain #3.

 

You can still take 2005 and fire Ozzie to improve the present and future.

[CWSGuy406]

About once every series, you will see two Sox fielders not communicate well and almost knock each other over.

 

You bring up a good point about our team speed. I think some changes might have to be made to add more speed if possible. SS could be a position where we could upgrade our speed for next season.

 

I will? Again, I don't recall that happening too much this season, other than the Dye/Iguchi incident, and Crede/Pierzynski almost colliding -- which, again, was Garcia's fault, for not directing traffic.

 

I don't really care about team speed. Our offense is the best we've had in quite a long time. Removing Uribe makes our defense go from slightly above average to just average.

 

The only change I would really want is a new LFer who can make good reads on the ball, and who can hit a little bit. And if Kenny really wants to improve the defense, try grabbing Orlando Hudson from 'Zona (if Gourriel isn't on the radar/doesn't defect).

 

This team, IMO, doesn't make any more stupid baserunning plays than the average one. We all know the problem with this team. In a way, it's a testament to the way Kenny constructed his roster, that it could be 20 games over while having four starters with ERAs hovering or above 5.00.

[DABearSoX]

You can still take 2005 and fire Ozzie to improve the present and future.

 

 

and replace him with who.......

[shoota]

and replace him with who.......

 

That question makes it seem there are few managers better than Ozzie Guillen.

 

Tom Kelly is near the top of my list.

[DABearSoX]

That question makes it seem there are few managers better than Ozzie Guillen.

 

Tom Kelly is near the top of my list.

 

 

How about Joey Cora, or maybe Hawk could run the team.....

[rangercal]

How about Joey Cora, or maybe Hawk could run the team.....

you have to realize, band wagoners won't tolerate losing or a team that is only 20 games over.

[SoxAce]

To this thread... just wow....

 

But I do have a question. Why did we waste a decent spect for Sandy Alomar Jr.? Why the hell is he on this team? Unless Buehrle pitches like an ace from here on out, there's no reason why a catcher whose CERA was just as bad as Widgers should be here.

Edited August 8, 2006 by SoxAce

[DABearSoX]

you have to realize, band wagoners won't tolerate losing or a team that is only 20 games over.

 

 

[Frankensteiner]

I can't for the life of me understand why people here would want Ozzie fired. I can live with some of his poor in-game decisions because, as we've seen, his managerial style won us the World Series last year.

 

Our problem is the horrible $45M starting pitching. There's no question it's the worst out of all the contending teams. There's no consistency there. Although I did enjoy all the arguments about how the pitchers would start pitching up to their potential and what not when some posters had this rotation figured for s*** as early as mid-June. It still boggles my mind how KW stood pat without improving the team.

 

On the bright side, we got rid of Politte and Widger. It's time to dominate the AL. YEAH!!

[shoota]

you have to realize, band wagoners won't tolerate losing or a team that is only 20 games over.

 

So you don't think Tom Kelly is a better manager than Ozzie Guillen?

[TitoMB345]

I can't for the life of me understand why people here would want Ozzie fired. I can live with some of his poor in-game decisions because, as we've seen, his managerial style won us the World Series last year.

 

Our problem is the horrible $45M starting pitching. There's no question it's the worst out of all the contending teams. There's no consistency there. Although I did enjoy all the arguments about how the pitchers would start pitching up to their potential and what not when some posters had this rotation figured for s*** as early as mid-June. It still boggles my mind how KW stood pat without improving the team.

 

On the bright side, we got rid of Politte and Widger. It's time to dominate the AL. YEAH!!

I say we go 1-2 against the Yanks, and 0-3 against the Kitties. Go ahead and call me a pessimist, but it's just me being honest.

[GoodAsGould]

To this thread... just wow....

 

But I do have a question. Why did we waste a decent spect for Sandy Alomar Jr.? Why the hell is he on this team? Unless Buehrle pitches like an ace from here on out, there's no reason why a catcher whose CERA was just as bad as Widgers should be here.

 

We didnt waste a "decent" prospect for Sandy... we wasted a 25 year old in AA. At that age you should be expected to dominate AA if not AAA to be considered any sort of a prospect.

[The Ginger Kid]

if the season's over, let's go ahead and beat the s***e out of the yankees just for the hell of it.

[fathom]

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sp...-home-headlines

 

At least Buehrle's not trying to make excuses.

[greg775]

No I wouldn't take Kelly over Ozzie.

Ozzie is the chicago White Sox like Ditka is the Bears.

GO OZ. Go SOX.

[fathom]

No I wouldn't take Kelly over Ozzie.

Ozzie is the chicago White Sox like Ditka is the Bears.

GO OZ. Go SOX.

 

Probably a bad idea to compare Ozzie to Ditka. Wasn't it all downhill for Ditka with the Bears after the Super Bowl year? Is Sean Tracey his Jim Harbaugh?

[Harry&JimmyRocked]

you know what, who cares? I want to win every game too, but despite the diappointments so far - guess what? We won the world series. Everything is else is gravy. Keep things in perspective.

 

 

so.....it doesn't matter what happens because they won last year? that comment just oozes stupidity. last year is over with. was it AWESOME? beyond words. this team was capable of doing it again. looks like they've adopted your "perspective" who cares what happens now. they got a ring. that's BULLs***. and i'll always call it BULLs***. expect more. no free passes. this teams window is closing fast and almost shut. but i guess i need to keep things in perspective...let em get fat, not care, and sit back at what could have been instead of what should have been.

 

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sp...-home-headlines

 

At least Buehrle's not trying to make excuses.

 

 

mark would totally fit in with tony larussa and the cards...are they stealing his signs too?

[BobDylan]

So, 3 homers ISN'T getting shelled? Hot damn, sign me up then, I'll pitch.

 

Ask Curt Schilling.

 

They were solo jobs.

 

If Buehrle was pulled when he should've been, the Sox more than likely are facing extra innings and a bullpen battle. 2 on and 2 out in the 7th is EXACTLY when you should see MacDougal/Thornton. NOT Buehrle to face two too many batters. (I can see SOME reason why you'd leave Buehrle in with 2 on, but after the BB to load the bases Figgins base hit was pretty much history before the happening.)

[DBAHO]

Some of you just have too high expectations for this team in general after what happened last season. There I said it.

 

We're what 20 games over .500, yet people are criticising Ozzie for his managerial skills. Is it Ozzie's fault our SP's in Garcia have basically decided we won't throw as hard this season so we won't be as good?

 

And a lot of the teams we're going to be facing in the A.L are pretty hot right now. You look at Anaheim, Detroit, Oakland, Minnesota, Boston and the Yankees they've all won the majority of their past 20 or so games.

 

So it's not going to be easy to make the playoffs, and yet people will be calling for Ozzie's head and major changes if we don't do so. We could end up with around 90-95 wins and still not make it.

[SoxHawk1980]

Some of you just have too high expectations for this team in general after what happened last season. There I said it.

 

We're what 20 games over .500, yet people are criticising Ozzie for his managerial skills. Is it Ozzie's fault our SP's in Garcia have basically decided we won't throw as hard this season so we won't be as good?

I am so tired of this argument. No, it is not Ozzie's fault that the starting pitchers are pitching worse this year. But he is exacerbating their negative effect on the team by leaving them in long enough to make sure they have time to get shelled. Dozens of times this season a struggling Sox starter has gotten into the middle innings and started to collapse. Ignoring this, Ozzie has waited until the starter gave up a few runs in the middle innings before finally pulling the starter.

 

Last night is a perfect example. Buehrle wasn't pitching well, but he was hanging in there. We were lucky that Buehrle made it through 6. Through that inning, he had 6ip and 3er. Then in the 7th, Buehrle gives up some hits and walks and Ozzie just sits on his hands until Buehrle has completely imploded. OZZIE turned a mediocre pitching performance into a complete failure. A moderately competent manager would have pulled Buehrle earlier and the bullpen would have given us a better chance to win.

 

This is what Ozzie does. He has no idea how to handle a pitching staff and is managing to make the worst out of mediocre or poor pitching performances.

[BobDylan]

I am so tired of this argument. No, it is not Ozzie's fault that the starting pitchers are pitching worse this year. But he is exacerbating their negative effect on the team by leaving them in long enough to make sure they have time to get shelled. Dozens of times this season a struggling Sox starter has gotten into the middle innings and started to collapse. Ignoring this, Ozzie has waited until the starter gave up a few runs in the middle innings before finally pulling the starter.

 

Last night is a perfect example. Buehrle wasn't pitching well, but he was hanging in there. We were lucky that Buehrle made it through 6. Through that inning, he had 6ip and 3er. Then in the 7th, Buehrle gives up some hits and walks and Ozzie just sits on his hands until Buehrle has completely imploded. OZZIE turned a mediocre pitching performance into a complete failure. A moderately competent manager would have pulled Buehrle earlier and the bullpen would have given us a better chance to win.

 

This is what Ozzie does. He has no idea how to handle a pitching staff and is managing to make the worst out of mediocre or poor pitching performances.

 

I've been an optimist all season long. But the fact is the Sox are underperforming in every aspect of the game and they've underperformed for a long time. It's August, these pitchers aren't going to turn it around. Kenny couldn't get another starter, so he went with the second best option and bulked up the bullpen. f***ING USE IT.

[Flash Tizzle]

Some of you just have too high expectations for this team in general after what happened last season. There I said it.

 

We're what 20 games over .500, yet people are criticising Ozzie for his managerial skills. Is it Ozzie's fault our SP's in Garcia have basically decided we won't throw as hard this season so we won't be as good?

 

And a lot of the teams we're going to be facing in the A.L are pretty hot right now. You look at Anaheim, Detroit, Oakland, Minnesota, Boston and the Yankees they've all won the majority of their past 20 or so games.

 

So it's not going to be easy to make the playoffs, and yet people will be calling for Ozzie's head and major changes if we don't do so. We could end up with around 90-95 wins and still not make it.

Last nights decision to leave Buehrle out after initially visiting the mound was inexcusable. A pattern is developing with Guillen-- of which many here on Soxtalk have accurately observed. He's living in 2005. He is continually under the impression his VAUNTED pitching staff has the capability of correcting their own mistakes. Escaping innings 5-7 without major damage.

 

This isn't last season, regardless of how often Hawk would like it to be.

 

Our bullpen needs to be better utilitized. If it consistently fails, well, forget about scapegoating Guillen because we'd likely miss the playoffs.

 

If we're unable to reach the post-season, I will not shrug my shoulders and commend us for winning 90-95 games yet failing to capture a playoff birth. No sympathetic gestures of, "oh well!!! gettem next year!! we can build off this club" will be mentioned under my name. It's failure anyway you rationalize it. Enhancing a World Series roster by bostering a stagnant offense and (supposedly) ungodly starting rotation should guarantee a playoff birth. Those were my expectations, as they currently are to this day. And don't reply, "nothing is guaranteed," because when a general manager constructs a ballclub at the expense of his system, and the overlying theme is "winning now," you damn well better win now. No excuses.

Edited August 8, 2006 by Flash Tizzle