Ozzie Manuel

[Jordan4life_2007]

And the 2006 team isn't?

 

You should learn to read.

[shoota]

You should learn to read.

 

Please explain.

[Punch and Judy Garland]

Also you act like our bullpen is clutch.

Our bullpen has been average at best.

 

I think Ozzie should have gone with McCarthy against Figgins even if you'd rather have Figgins hit righty. That said, I'm not going to kill him for it either because we don't know if it would have worked out that way but I do think it was a mistake. It doesn't make him a bad manager though although I hope he is open to the idea of relying on his bullpen a bit more.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Please explain.

 

Caffey said Manuel never had a team as talented as the current team. The 2003 team was just about as talented as this one. I still don't know how that team didn't get into the playoffs.

[shoota]

Caffey said Manuel never had a team as talented as the current team. The 2003 team was just about as talented as this one. I still don't know how that team didn't get into the playoffs.

 

 

Right, so Manuel is a bad manager and so is Ozzie.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Right, so Manuel is a bad manager and so is Ozzie.

 

Yeah, that's it.

[shoota]

Yeah, that's it.

 

 

You stated the 2003 team was just about as talented at the 2006 one, so if the Sox don't make the playoffs this year, Ozzie, like Manuel is bad manager according to your reasoning.

[Jordan4life_2007]

You stated the 2003 team was just about as talented at the 2006 one, so if the Sox don't make the playoffs this year, Ozzie, like Manuel is bad manager according to your reasoning.

 

Get back to me when the Sox are eliminated from playoff contention. And even then, I'll blame the starting pitching more than I would Ozzie. It would be tough for a lot of managers to win when an entire starting staff, especially one as potent as this year's staff was supposed to be, craps its pants for an entire year.

[shoota]

Get back to me when the Sox are eliminated from playoff contention. And even then, I'll blame the starting pitching more than I would Ozzie. It would be tough for a lot of managers to win when an entire starting staff, especially one as potent as this year's staff was supposed to be, craps its pants for an entire year.

 

Ozzie is partly to blame for the performance of the starting rotation because of the way he used it.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Ozzie is partly to blame for the performance of the starting rotation because of the way he used it.

 

He hasn't used them any differently than last year. They haven't performed. Period.

[fathom]

Ozzie is partly to blame for the performance of the starting rotation because of the way he used it.

 

There is a lot of truth in this. It's amazing how many times our starters are giving up like 2 runs in the 7th inning, and that's really blowing up their ERAs. I would love to know what the team ERA is by inning.

 

He hasn't used them any differently than last year. They haven't performed. Period.

 

And when your guys are underachieving/fatigued, it might be best to pull them sooner, rather than later. I know this stat has been brought up a million times tonight, but our relievers have thrown the fewest innings in the AL this season.

[greg775]

I love Oz but I hope the Alomar experiment is over.

AJ shoulda been playing tonight.

Mark B can pitch to anybody. Alomar is no savior of Mark and

AJ woulda been a nice lefty bat in there.

 

I hope Oz is our manager for the next 20 years.

It ain't easy to repeat folks. It ain't his fault our bullpen is

average to bad and our starters' arms are falling off after

last year's excellence.

[shoota]

He hasn't used them any differently than last year. They haven't performed. Period.

 

And since their performances are much worse than they were in 2005, a good manager would have adjusted his use of them.

[fathom]

I love Oz but I hope the Alomar experiment is over.

AJ shoulda been playing tonight.

Mark B can pitch to anybody. Alomar is no savior of Mark and

AJ woulda been a nice lefty bat in there.

 

I hope Oz is our manager for the next 20 years.

It ain't easy to repeat folks. It ain't his fault our bullpen is

average to bad and our starters' arms are falling off after

last year's excellence.

 

I know they were trying to have Alomar resurrect Buehrle, but now what happens is that AJP has to face the tough lefty in Johnson this week instead of playing tonight against Escobar.

[shoota]

There is a lot of truth in this. It's amazing how many times our starters are giving up like 2 runs in the 7th inning, and that's really blowing up their ERAs. I would love to know what the team ERA is by inning.

 

 

And when your guys are underachieving/fatigued, it might be best to pull them sooner, rather than later. I know this stat has been brought up a million times tonight, but our relievers have thrown the fewest innings in the AL this season.

 

Well stated.

[fathom]

I hope Oz is our manager for the next 20 years.

It ain't easy to repeat folks. It ain't his fault our bullpen is

average to bad and our starters' arms are falling off after

last year's excellence.

 

Our bullpen right now has no one over a 4 ERA. If Ozzie had as much confidence in them as he does our starters, maybe we'd be able to win some of these close games before a one run deficit becomes a 3 run deficit.

[Jordan4life_2007]

And since their performances are much worse than they were in 2005, a good manager would have adjusted his use of them.

 

And then people would diss Ozzie for overworking the bullpen. This team is built on starting pitching. Hell, nearly half this team's damn payroll is tied up in the starting rotation. If they don't perform, there's really not much Ozzie can do. And it's not like we've got the Angels' bullpen, either.

[fathom]

And then people would diss Ozzie for overworking the bullpen. This team is built on starting pitching. Hell, nearly half this team's damn payroll is tied up in the starting rotation. If they don't perform, there's really not much Ozzie can do. And it's not like we've got the Angels' bullpen, either.

 

I've been saying all year that we need our 5 starters to step up and lead this team. However, that's not happening, and it seems like the only person who hasn't realized yet that these pitchers continue to give up late runs is Ozzie Guillen (and the PFB). Right now, the offense is what is our best asset, followed by our relievers, followed by our starting pitching. To say Ozzie can't do anything to help the starting pitching though is ridiculous. There's no need for them to start the 7th inning nearly every game, especially when they're fatigued. Wasn't McCarthy supposed to be on the roster to prevent the exact crap that we're seeing this year?

[Jordan4life_2007]

I've been saying all year that we need our 5 starters to step up and lead this team. However, that's not happening, and it seems like the only person who hasn't realized yet that these pitchers continue to give up late runs is Ozzie Guillen (and the PFB). Right now, the offense is what is our best asset, followed by our relievers, followed by our starting pitching. To say Ozzie can't do anything to help the starting pitching though is ridiculous. There's no need for them to start the 7th inning nearly every game, especially when they're fatigued. Wasn't McCarthy supposed to be on the roster to prevent the exact crap that we're seeing this year?

 

Problem is McCarthy has been hit-or-miss all year. I agree that Ozzie should've lifted Mark after 6 tonight. I'm just looking at the entire season. This rotation flat-out hasn't performed. I don't know what Ozzie can do when 4 of your 5 starters have ERAs near or above 5. Yeah, you could yank a guy after 5 or 6 everytime, but then you put great stress on your bullpen. And as I've said, our bullpen hasn't exactly been stellar.

[shoota]

And then people would diss Ozzie for overworking the bullpen. This team is built on starting pitching. Hell, nearly half this team's damn payroll is tied up in the starting rotation. If they don't perform, there's really not much Ozzie can do. And it's not like we've got the Angels' bullpen, either.

 

The 2006 team is not built on starting pitching and Ozzie's failure to come to this conclusion has costed the Sox victories this year.

 

Of course there's much Ozzie can do to increase the effectiveness of the starting rotation. Like Fathom stated, replacing them with a reliever before the starter surrenders multiple runs in the 6th or 7th inning is one solution.

 

The salary of a player should never dictate his playing time. That's a ridiculous argument because often salaries are not commensurate with performance. If you don't understand that...

Edited August 8, 2006 by shoota

[southsideirish71]

The 2006 team is not built on starting pitching and Ozzie's failure to come to this conclusion has costed the Sox victories this year.

 

Of course there's much Ozzie can do to increase the effectiveness of the starting rotation. Like Fathom stated, replacing them with a reliever before the starter surrenders multiple runs in the 6th or 7th inning is one solution.

 

The salary of a player should never dictate his playing time. That's a ridiculous argument because often salaries are not commensurate with performance. If you don't understand that...

 

 

I could care less that Buerhle started the 7th. But you seen a moon shot get snagged at the fence that the camera man thought was out. Then 2 men get on. Its time to get a fresh arm in there. Unless your pitcher is dominating or has dominated the game, you go with the fresh arm, and a new look to get you out of it. The game was on the line in that inning, and we put it on the shoulders of a contact pitcher who gave up 3 dongs in the game. The manager obviously was worried enough to go stroll to the mound for a chat. The minute the game is about to be blown out, pull your starter. 6 2/3 innings is enough for your starter to go, and you can have your pen keep you in the game for the rest of the night.

Edited August 8, 2006 by southsideirish71

[shoota]

Problem is McCarthy has been hit-or-miss all year. I agree that Ozzie should've lifted Mark after 6 tonight. I'm just looking at the entire season. This rotation flat-out hasn't performed. I don't know what Ozzie can do when 4 of your 5 starters have ERAs near or above 5. Yeah, you could yank a guy after 5 or 6 everytime, but then you put great stress on your bullpen. And as I've said, our bullpen hasn't exactly been stellar.

 

Part of the reason Ozzie's starters have ERAs so high is because he allows them to surrender multiple runs in situations where they've proven they are unlikely to pitch out of the situation.

 

And since the bullpen is one of the least used in baseball, your overworked argument is just as useless as Ozzie's managing.

[BobDylan]

What I find funny is there is no blame being put on Coop. COOP THE MIRACLE MAN, the only reason he gets so much credit is because of last year......SO WHAT THE HELL IS HE TELLING THEM NOW.....

 

Coop seems to have a track record of one year wonders since coming to Chicago.

[witesoxfan]

There is a lot of truth in this. It's amazing how many times our starters are giving up like 2 runs in the 7th inning, and that's really blowing up their ERAs. I would love to know what the team ERA is by inning.

 

For your, ehh, pleasure(?)...it's close enough I figure...

 

Pitcher	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9
Mark Buehrle	9.00	2.05	6.14	3.00	5.40	6.00	1.46	1.50	0.00
Jose Contreras	4.29	1.71	1.29	5.57	3.00	6.05	4.30	5.79	0.00
Jon Garland	5.14	3.86	3.00	6.00	4.71	8.44	3.48	2.70	27.00
Freddy Garcia	4.50	3.27	3.68	5.32	9.00	3.00	5.79	4.50	--
Javier Vazquez	3.43	1.71	4.71	0.00	9.00	10.42	16.88	3.38	--

[RME JICO]

Here is the Sox Runs Scored and Runs Allowed by inning for their last 25 games (9-16 record):

 

	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	Extra	Total	AVG RS
Sox	11	7	20	18	15	13	7	10	11	6	118	4.72
Opp	21	3	15	20	11	24	20	16	10	3	143	5.72
Opp ERA	3.96	2.52	7.20	6.48	5.40	4.68	2.52	3.60	4.71
Sox ERA	7.56	1.08	5.40	7.20	3.96	8.64	7.20	5.76	5.29

 

Sox pitching is getting destroyed in the 1st, 4th, 6th, and 7th innings. The Relief pitching hasn't been much better than the starting pitching either. In the last 25 games the Starting Pitching ERA is 5.46 and the Relief Pitching is 5.01. That does not account for the inherited runners which would make the two pretty close.

Edited August 8, 2006 by RME JICO