Ozzie Manuel

[DBAHO]

Here is the Sox Runs Scored and Runs Allowed by inning for their last 25 games (9-16 record):

Sox pitching is getting destroyed in the 1st, 4th, 6th, and 7th innings. The Relief pitching hasn't been much better than the starting picthing either. In the last 25 games the Starting Pitching ERA is 5.46 and the Relief Pitching is 5.01. That does not account for the inherited runners which would make the two pretty close.

Hence why Ozzie probably doesn't have a lot of confidence in his bullpen right now.

 

Hopefully the likes of Jenks and Cotts can turn around their mini slumps and get back to where they were pitching last season.

[Dick Allen]

Hence why Ozzie probably doesn't have a lot of confidence in his bullpen right now.

 

Hopefully the likes of Jenks and Cotts can turn around their mini slumps and get back to where they were pitching last season.

I still don't understand his actions or lack of actions last night. The bullpen was ready when the score was 3-2 and there was 1 man on base. Maybe he doesn't have confidence in the bullpen, but Buerhles ERA has been about 10.00 his last 6 starts or so and he had given up 3 homeruns last night. The score of the game is 3-2 and the Sox really need to win games. How do you not go to the bullpen until the score is 6-2? It is beyond stupid. If Ozzie left Buerhle in and he wiggled out of the jam with no damage, we would hear what a genius Ozzie is, how he just got Buerhle even more confidence, etc. Well he left him in until the game was out of reach. It may show that Ozzie isn't quite the genius he's made out to be. Any manager is a genius when they get pitching like Ozzie did in 2005 and Leyland is getting in 2006.

[Hangar18]

Here is the Sox Runs Scored and Runs Allowed by inning for their last 25 games (9-16 record):

Sox pitching is getting destroyed in the 1st, 4th, 6th, and 7th innings. The Relief pitching hasn't been much better than the starting pitching either. In the last 25 games the Starting Pitching ERA is 5.46 and the Relief Pitching is 5.01. That does not account for the inherited runners which would make the two pretty close.

 

 

 

That chart just made me puke ....in my mouth .... a little bit ..... just now

[shoota]

You stated the 2003 team was just about as talented at the 2006 one, so if the Sox don't make the playoffs this year, Ozzie, like Manuel is bad manager according to your reasoning.

 

 

Get back to me when the Sox are eliminated from playoff contention. And even then, I'll blame the starting pitching more than I would Ozzie. It would be tough for a lot of managers to win when an entire starting staff, especially one as potent as this year's staff was supposed to be, craps its pants for an entire year.

 

Now that the season is over and Ozzie failed to reach the playoffs, you can admit that he's a bad manager.

[iamshack]

I don't know why I am taking the bait here, but I guess I am.

 

Ozzie is not a bad manager. That's just foolish. Stubborn and silly at times, but certainly not bad. He was brilliant in 05', especially the 05' playoffs, and is one of the few managers who manages a starting rotation the way it was meant to be managed.

 

Just as he probably got too much credit in 05', he is taking too much blame for 06'.

 

Stop and think about how difficult it is to not only reach the postseason in consecutive years but to repeat as well. Then stop and take a look at the man's win-loss record (and remember he is not a college coach).

 

As much heat as Ozzie and KW have taken here over the past 6 months or so, I could not think of any other tandem I'd want running this ballclub.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Now that the season is over and Ozzie failed to reach the playoffs, you can admit that he's a bad manager.

 

What the hell? LOL. Why did you bump this thread? And, no, Ozzie is not a bad manager.

[shoota]

What the hell? LOL. Why did you bump this thread? And, no, Ozzie is not a bad manager.

 

I bumped this thread at your request to get back to you once the Ozzie-led Sox failed to make the playoffs.

 

Your statement suggests you thought Ozzie was a good manager at the time, but would change your opinion if he floundered a playoff birth.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I bumped this thread at your request to get back to you once the Ozzie-led Sox failed to make the playoffs.

 

Your statement suggests you thought Ozzie was a good manager at the time, but would change your opinion if he floundered a playoff birth.

 

Why do you wait until now to bump it, though? And, no, I don't believe a guy who led us to a title less than a year and a half ago is a bad manager. Is he perfect? No. Does he make mistakes? Most definitely. It just wasn't meant to be last year.

[knightni]

This is a stupid-ass thread.

[Harry Chappas]

Anyone that compares Ozzie Guillen and Jerry Manuel has zero credability and knows nothing about baseball, sorry if this is offensive. Ozzie Guillen may be a bad manger but he can not be compared to Manual they are polar opposites.

 

The 2003 White Sox had the best team in baseball. Guillen would have led this team to at least the playoffs and Loiaza and Colon would have taken them to the WS.

[RibbieRubarb]

This is a stupid-ass thread.

 

Look who bumped it...

[knightni]

Look who bumped it...

 

Someone named "Shoota".

[The Ginger Kid]

World Series Championships:

Ozzie = 1

Jerry = 0

[shoota]

Anyone that compares Ozzie Guillen and Jerry Manuel has zero credability and knows nothing about baseball, sorry if this is offensive. Ozzie Guillen may be a bad manger but he can not be compared to Manual they are polar opposites.

 

The 2003 White Sox had the best team in baseball. Guillen would have led this team to at least the playoffs and Loiaza and Colon would have taken them to the WS.

 

Post #18:

The comparison holds true in that both are bad managers.

[RockRaines]

Now that the season is over and Ozzie failed to reach the playoffs, you can admit that he's a bad manager.

Nope, I cant. I guess every coach or manager that doesnt reach the playoffs is a bad coach.

 

This is a stupid-ass thread.

I liked his Grossman vs orton ones better.

[Kalapse]

Post #18:

So what managers currently in baseball do you like?

[shoota]

Nope, I cant. I guess every coach or manager that doesnt reach the playoffs is a bad coach.

I liked his Grossman vs orton ones better.

 

I don't think I've ever started a Grossman vs Orton thread.

[kapkomet]

Now that the season is over and Ozzie failed to reach the playoffs, you can admit that he's a bad manager.

Nice memory. What the hell do you do with your time?

[shoota]

So what managers currently in baseball do you like?

 

I'm a fan of Mike Scioscia, Ron Gardenhire, Tom Kelly, Jim Leyland, Jack McKeon and from what I've heard, Wally Backman. I'd probably like Bobby Cox and Lou Piniella if I watched more of their games.

 

Nice memory. What the hell do you do with your time?

 

I found it when I was deleting old bookmarks.

[RockRaines]

Several of those managers didnt make the playoffs last year either, which means they suck according to your logic.

[shoota]

Several of those managers didnt make the playoffs last year either, which means they suck according to your logic.

 

Incorrect for a couple reasons. 1) Those other managers didn't have the players Guillen had in 2006. 2) Earlier in this thread, Jordan4Life mentioned Manuel was a bad manager for not getting the talented 2003 team into the playoffs, yet Ozzie failed to manage his very talented 2006 team into the playoffs. Based on J4L's logic that Manuel is a bad manager for failing in 2003, he must also admit Guillen is a bad manager for failing in 2006.

Edited January 10, 2007 by shoota

[RockRaines]

Incorrect for a couple reasons. 1) Those other managers didn't have the players Guillen had in 2006. 2) Earlier in this thread, Jordan4Life mentioned Manuel was a bad manager for not getting the talented 2003 team into the playoffs, yet Ozzie failed to manage his very talented 2006 team into the playoffs. Based on J4L's logic that Manuel is a bad manager for failing in 2003, he must also admit Guillen is a bad manager for failing in 2006.

If we are using logic, explain to me how Ozzie made the pitching staff completely crap themselves in 2006. Also talent level is decidedly higher for Ozzie comparative to the other teams in our division?Are you considering we were playing in the best division in baseball with the highest level of talent? What are you trying to say about teams like the Tigers and Twins, did they have markedly inferior talent? Consequently, does it mean that managers like Scioscia were actually even worse managers because respective to their divisions they had clearly the best amount of talent and should have had an easier time making the playoffs, considering we had the best team in baseball and then also the wildcard come out of our division?

Edited January 10, 2007 by RockRaines

[shoota]

If we are using logic, explain to me how Ozzie made the pitching staff completely crap themselves in 2006. Also talent level is decidedly higher for Ozzie comparative to the other teams in our division?Are you considering we were playing in the best division in baseball with the highest level of talent? What are you trying to say about teams like the Tigers and Twins, did they have markedly inferior talent? Consequently, does it mean that managers like Scioscia were actually even worse managers because respective to their divisions they had clearly the best amount of talent and should have had an easier time making the playoffs, considering we had the best team in baseball and then also the wildcard come out of our division?

 

 

This tangent has nothing to do with the premise of the discussion. Jordan4Life said Manuel's a bad manager for failing to get to the playoffs in 2003. He stated the "2003 team was just about as talented" as the 2006 Ozzie-managed team. Therefore, according to his logic, if Manuel's a bad manager, so is Guillen.

[RockRaines]

This tangent has nothing to do with the premise of the discussion. Jordan4Life said Manuel's a bad manager for failing to get to the playoffs in 2003. He stated the "2003 team was just about as talented" as the 2006 Ozzie-managed team. Therefore, according to his logic, if Manuel's a bad manager, so is Guillen.

I dont give a crap about what HE said, your point of Ozzie being a bad manager is baseless and ridiculous. You named a bunch of other managers who havent nearly had the success that Ozzie has had in the short period of time.

 

BTW the 2003 team that you speak of finished 86-76. The first place Twins finished 90-72. Kanasa City 83-79, Cle 68-94 detroit 43-119

 

The 2006 white sox team would have won that division with their record, not to mention they faced MUCH stiffer competition in their own division as they finished 6 games back with the same record that would have won the division in 2003. The regression of the pitching staff coming off the title year was the major factor of our failure. Two things that Jerry Manuel couldnt really hang his hat on. The two years are not comparable as they had somewhat equal talent, and not nearly the same level of competition nor success.

Edited January 10, 2007 by RockRaines

[shoota]

I dont give a crap about what HE said, your point of Ozzie being a bad manager is baseless and ridiculous. You named a bunch of other managers who havent nearly had the success that Ozzie has had in the short period of time.

 

 

Okay, I'll list reasons why Guillen's a bad manager:

 

* Mishandled Brandon McCarthy by not starting him in 2006 when he had plenty of chances to use him over his ineffective and injured starting 5: For Contreras when he was pitching injured in the second-half; for Vazquez when he got lit up in the 6th innings; for Garcia or Buehrle when they sucked.

 

* Mishandled Brandon McCarthy by not using him as a long-man.

 

* Allowing his most dominant pitcher to pitch injured.

 

* Using Rob Mackowiak in center field because of a personal grudge he had against Brian Anderson.

 

* Temporarily retarding Brian Anderson's growth as a baseball player.

 

* Putting Damaso Marte on the 2005 ALDS and ALCS postseason roster instead of Brandon McCarthy. McCarthy was tits down the stretch that season and Marte was emotionally lost and pitching horribly.

 

* Having a misconceived belief that his leadoff man has to be a fast base stealer, leading him to start Podsednik in LF over Mackowiak in 2006.

 

* Directing fierce anger at Sean Tracey for failing to intentionally hitting a batter, then sending him to the minors because of it.

 

* Guillen regularly makes personnel decisions based on his relationships with players, not based on what's best for the team: Tracey, Anderson, McCarthy, Marte, Garcia.

 

* Horrible handling of his pitching staff, regularly leaving startes in games too long, after they've become ineffective.

 

* Failure to protect his players in multiple instances with opposing pitchers' hitting Sox batters.

 

* Allowing his relative Freddy G to show up teammates after they error in the field.

 

* Possessing absolutely no clue when to call for a pitchout, often calling for one when there was no attempted steal.

 

* For managing in a reactive manner instead of a calculated one.

 

* Incomprehensibly not getting the 2006 Sox to the playoffs.

Edited January 10, 2007 by shoota