The Batting Lineup Bookends: the Real Problem

[LVSoxFan]

You know, watching us slog through another we-won't-come-from-behind loss last night, Hawk said something that struck me (or maybe it was Melton afterwards, I don't remember): our leadoff hitters are biting it, and so is the bottom of the order.

 

Everybody's been on Pods (.190 since the ASB) but he pointed out that Iguchi has been cold too. What that means to us as a team is that when the Big Bats get up, there's nobody to bat in. Think about it: when was the last time you saw a Thome homer with men on base? I'm not saying it NEVER happens, but it seems like a troubling trend.

 

Sometimes Konerko will bat in Thome or Dye will bat them both in but then comes... the bottom of the lineup, which ain't exactly on fire of late, either.

 

And if you think about it, this explains a lot. When the middle of the order goes cold (as we've seen during that horrendous stretch), we're totally screwed. But when they're hitting well but getting no support from in front or behind, it sort of explains how we can't come back from three-run or two-run deficits that should be no problem.

 

Hell, Thome's homer last night... a solo shot. And then... nothing.

 

I'm not sure what the solution is to this, but is sure does make a lot of sense. When we're down two or three and I wonder: how can we not come back from such a small lead? I'm starting to wonder if opponents know that if they get through the middle of the order, that's all they have to do.

 

Thoughts?

[Milkman delivers]

Go with the hot hand. We know who he is.

[RME JICO]

I understand that it seems like the offense is a problem, but even during the last 25 games which started with the Boston series before the ASB, the offense has averaged 4.72 runs per game. Before that stretch they were averaging 5.96 per game. So it is easy to see why the team has faltered. The offense carried the team with almost 6 runs a game for the first 85 games, then it slowed down to 4.72 per game.

 

The offense is not perfect, but the pitching is still the #1 problem. Last 25 games - 5.32 ERA, first 75 games 4.32 ERA.

 

Also, look at how many games the Sox score over 3 runs and lose. The last 7 losses the Sox have scored 3 or more runs and still lost. The offense has only been shutout twice the whole year.

Edited August 8, 2006 by RME JICO

[Wanne]

Even the ESPN guys made mention of this. Pods...who knows what his problem is...too much Dergen?!? (if there is such a thing). Gooch...seems like he needs Ozzie to crawl up his ass again over something...it always seems to bring him to life for some reason.

 

As for the bottom of the order...I've recalled several opportunities when they got on to bring up the top of the order...only to have Pods and Gooch fizzle it out in a heartbeat.

 

Who knows what goes on in the clubhouse. Seems everybody is really pressing right now and like Milkman says..doesn't seem to be much heart or passion. Is Ozzie tense now and everybody can read it? Hell...next rain delay...let Mark slide on the tarp...let Joe grow his friggin hair out...this team needs to relax.

[TitoMB345]

We just need the entire team to click all at once. I KNOW it will happen before the end of the year, atleast once. Think of how DOMINATING this team will be when we fire on all cylinders, like we were around the first month or two. God, JG, JC, Buehrle, Garcia, and Vazquez, unbelievable but underachieving talent on the pitching staff. And the offense, well we ALL know how sick that can be (remember the Cardinals series?) But it just isn't clicking right now.

 

Partly, I think Ozzie needs to get in their faces and get them motivated, and partly, I think they just need to focus better.

 

I KNOW I'm very negative most of the time, but its just because I get too emotional when I see a team that I KNOW should be doing better, suck. Usually I am only very negative during the game, or right after until the next day, and I just can't control that. I was never bothered this much during the 2003 or 2004 seasons, because I didn't expect them to win it all, but I did this year. I don't think I'm the only one in this boat either.

 

Now that said, with my current state of mind, I think we can do this. Let's Go White Sox!

 

Who knows what goes on in the clubhouse. Seems everybody is really pressing right now and like Milkman says..doesn't seem to be much heart or passion. Is Ozzie tense now and everybody can read it? Hell...next rain delay...let Mark slide on the tarp...let Joe grow his friggin hair out...this team needs to relax.

DING! The team does need to relax. Kenny and Ozzie seem to be keeping the team too uptight because they are now viewed as "world champions." A team that laughs together, wins together.

[Milkman delivers]

The Sox are undefeated when I'm in attendance this year. The solution to their recent struggles is clear. Give me your tickets, and I will ensure a playoff spot for our team.

 

Let's start tonight. Who wants to be the first to help the team and fork over a ticket (preferably somewhere near the dugout)?

[LVSoxFan]

I agree with letting Buehrle slide on the tarp. Everybody needs to loosen up. They DO look AWFULLY tense all the time.

[Maverick0984]

the problem is pitching, i'm not too worried about the hitting, there is bound to be some cold nights with that, but it's been said a million times, the pitching needs to carry us, like last year.

[LVSoxFan]

Oh I understand pitching is our #1 problem--no argument here.

 

I'm just saying, though, it's so odd how we can't climb out of 2-run and three-run holes.

 

Look, when Jose gives up only two runs and we still lose, you gotta wonder.

[Wanne]

Oh I understand pitching is our #1 problem--no argument here.

 

Let's clearify....STARTING pitching is the problem. But also...knowing when to go to the bullpen...BIGGER problem IMO. There's NO REASON that going into the 6th or 7th inning...you can't really on Cotts, Mac, Riske, Thornton, BMac...to get to the 9th or even close it out. Cripes sakes....last night was the prime example. Ozzie needs to quit being so stubborn...you have a bullpen for a reason. Scoscia know how to use his.

 

Clutch hitting has been a problem too...right up there with the SP. I don't think you could get a greased BB through Paulies ass right now either. I know all these topics are our "Dead Horse"...but I'm actually open to the suggestion of moving JD to the 3 hole and slide everybody down...and Milkman's idea of playing Mack over Pods more. And one more....have a seat for a bit Gooch...Pablo at 2nd...then watch Tad come back on a tear.

 

Above all....USE THE DAMN BULLPEN OZZIE!!!!

[Hangar18]

You know, watching us slog through another we-won't-come-from-behind loss last night, Hawk said something that struck me (or maybe it was Melton afterwards, I don't remember): our leadoff hitters are biting it, and so is the bottom of the order.

 

Everybody's been on Pods (.190 since the ASB) but he pointed out that Iguchi has been cold too. What that means to us as a team is that when the Big Bats get up, there's nobody to bat in. Think about it: when was the last time you saw a Thome homer with men on base? I'm not saying it NEVER happens, but it seems like a troubling trend.

 

Sometimes Konerko will bat in Thome or Dye will bat them both in but then comes... the bottom of the lineup, which ain't exactly on fire of late, either.

 

And if you think about it, this explains a lot. When the middle of the order goes cold (as we've seen during that horrendous stretch), we're totally screwed. But when they're hitting well but getting no support from in front or behind, it sort of explains how we can't come back from three-run or two-run deficits that should be no problem.

 

Hell, Thome's homer last night... a solo shot. And then... nothing.

 

I'm not sure what the solution is to this, but is sure does make a lot of sense. When we're down two or three and I wonder: how can we not come back from such a small lead? I'm starting to wonder if opponents know that if they get through the middle of the order, that's all they have to do.

 

Thoughts?

 

Hey, I was watching the PostGame, and it was MELTON who said this, and he brought up a very good point. (by the way, the postgame show, with Garfien & Melton is very informative and entertaining)

When I saw Thome crush that pitch into leftcenter, the first thing I thought was ....>SO WHAT, there was nobody on when he did that (thats another thread right there) , why couldnt we have baserunners on?

The top of the lineup needs to be making things happen, way too many strikeouts from Pods (Ive said it a dozen times, Pods needs glasses)

[LVSoxFan]

Hey, I was watching the PostGame, and it was MELTON who said this, and he brought up a very good point. (by the way, the postgame show, with Garfien & Melton is very informative and entertaining)

When I saw Thome crush that pitch into leftcenter, the first thing I thought was ....>SO WHAT, there was nobody on when he did that (thats another thread right there) , why couldnt we have baserunners on?

The top of the lineup needs to be making things happen, way too many strikeouts from Pods (Ive said it a dozen times, Pods needs glasses)

 

You are correct, and I agree. And I had the same reaction to Thome's homer: a lot of good this is gonna do this, ugh...

[Felix]

The Sox are undefeated when I'm in attendance this year. The solution to their recent struggles is clear. Give me your tickets, and I will ensure a playoff spot for our team.

 

Let's start tonight. Who wants to be the first to help the team and fork over a ticket (preferably somewhere near the dugout)?

They are 4-1 with me there.. I'll take any and all tickets too (along with plane tickets to get to Chicago)

[Milkman delivers]

They are 4-1 with me there.. I'll take any and all tickets too (along with plane tickets to get to Chicago)

 

A loss?! Get that weak s*** out of here.

 

EDIT: It's not spiff anymore?

Edited August 8, 2006 by Milkman delivers

[Felix]

A loss?! Get that weak s*** out of here.

 

EDIT: It's not spiff anymore?

The loss was a bulls*** one too in Pittsburgh.. stupid walkoff shot.

 

At least that game included a spectacular shot by Thome.

[Hangar18]

The Sox are undefeated when I'm in attendance this year. The solution to their recent struggles is clear. Give me your tickets, and I will ensure a playoff spot for our team.

 

Let's start tonight. Who wants to be the first to help the team and fork over a ticket (preferably somewhere near the dugout)?

 

 

so your saying last nites LOSS was really your fault? Ive been trying everything, tonite will be wearing my Konerko jersey.

[Milkman delivers]

The loss was a bulls*** one too in Pittsburgh.. stupid walkoff shot.

 

At least that game included a spectacular shot by Thome.

 

That's even worse. I think it's evident that I deserve the tickets more than you do

 

so your saying last nites LOSS was really your fault? Ive been trying everything, tonite will be wearing my Konerko jersey.

 

Entirely my fault.

[Balta1701]

This was actually part of the point I was making in my other thread. Podsednik and Iguchi have real troubles, in particular, with left-handers, which allows other teams to really shut down the starting part of our order if htey throw out a Loogy. Combine that with a couple guys going into a slump, and things can look pretty bad.

 

The bottom of our order though? As far as bottoms-of-the-order go, I'll live with it. Anderson is on his way up, and the offense 34567 was good enough to carry the team while he learned, and occasionally caught the ball. Most teams in the AL don't have MVP candidates hitting 9th, even the Yankees. Uribe has, of course, been disappointing once again, but it's not as bad as it could be with him.

[winninguglyin83]

pitching, pitching and Pods.

 

Buehrle's ERA is nearly 10 since July 1.

 

He's been worse than Danny Wright, Todd Ritchie or Navarro.

 

Garcia hasn't been much better.

 

throw in a standstill segment at the top of the order, and it's tough to remain confident.