Punch and Judy Garland Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 I've decided to make a thread dedicated to a systematic problem the 06 White Sox have had: basepath problems. We have had a terrible time stopping the running game of the other team and we are certainly willing to run into outs even when there is ample evidence that running is not the best play. In fact, it's no longer one of the "little things", its moved on to being a legitimate issue. Tonight, the Yankees ran on us pretty much at will. No surprise given that Contreras and Garcia couldn't stop half the guys here from running. While they have altered their stride a bit and held the ball longer at times throughout this year, there has been no increase in positive results to the eye anyways. My bone of contention, while realizing that you do want to keep some focus on the hitter, is that we aren't doing everything we can to stop the run. There have not been nearly enough throws over by Garcia and Conteras. Second, and much more important, we don't pitch out NEARLY enough. You don't want to do it all the time but if you have a great basestealer and an 0-1 count, its worth taking a shot. We just don't utilize the pitchout how we should. My second major gripe is with our Ozzie Ball running. I like stealing bases as much or more than anyone but we looked dumb out there tonight. Clearly Posada was showing off a good arm tonight and the Yankee pitchers were quick to the plate as we sent guys with good but unspectacular speed towards second and ending our innings. Where is the hit and run? If you are struggling to get rallies going and you aren't able to steal bases, putting a guy in motion is a great way to hedge your bets. Yet we don't do this very much. It would be wise with a guy like Cintron who can handle the bat well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Teams run at will against us when stealing and when taking the extra base. Meanwhile, we keep getting thrown out by 5 feet on our steal attempts, and we can't take an extra base on a hit to save our lives. I too would like to see more hit-and-runs, because at least you can protect the runner a little bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch and Judy Garland Posted August 9, 2006 Author Share Posted August 9, 2006 Yeah it really is an issue that would hurt us in a series against a team like New York, the Mets, or even the Angels. The Red Sox and A's don't really run so its not as big of a deal but a team like the Yankees has a plethora of speed so it really shows our weakness there. Great win tonight but our problems cna't be ingored or covered up by a great win like tonight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggliopipe Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 To Ozuna's credit, it looked like Crede may have missed a hit and run sign. I don't know if Hawk said anything about this because I had the YES feed. Pablo clearly had a lousy jump and was staring in after a few strides looking to see if the ball was in play. And if Paul O'neill says it, you know it's true. I didn't find any of tonight's caught stealings particularly awful as far as caught stealings are concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 QUOTE(maggliopipe @ Aug 9, 2006 -> 01:26 AM) because I had the YES feed. This has nothing to do with the thread, but I had the YES feed too for most of the time I was watching, until I realized the game was on WGN. Then I felt like an idiot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch and Judy Garland Posted August 9, 2006 Author Share Posted August 9, 2006 Yeah its hard to say. Wasn't there one out when Ozuna ran? A-Rod showed later the advantage of the two out steal as you don't have to peer in for the double play. How many feet did our guys have to get thrown out by for us to consider puttiing the red light up? I agreed with Ozuna coming in so that he could score on a gapper and that is a normal running situation but all night we showed that Posada had us beat by 6 feet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrzo2733 Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 QUOTE(Punch and Judy Garland @ Aug 8, 2006 -> 09:53 PM) I've decided to make a thread dedicated to a systematic problem the 06 White Sox have had: basepath problems. We have had a terrible time stopping the running game of the other team and we are certainly willing to run into outs even when there is ample evidence that running is not the best play. In fact, it's no longer one of the "little things", its moved on to being a legitimate issue. Tonight, the Yankees ran on us pretty much at will. No surprise given that Contreras and Garcia couldn't stop half the guys here from running. While they have altered their stride a bit and held the ball longer at times throughout this year, there has been no increase in positive results to the eye anyways. My bone of contention, while realizing that you do want to keep some focus on the hitter, is that we aren't doing everything we can to stop the run. There have not been nearly enough throws over by Garcia and Conteras. Second, and much more important, we don't pitch out NEARLY enough. You don't want to do it all the time but if you have a great basestealer and an 0-1 count, its worth taking a shot. We just don't utilize the pitchout how we should. My second major gripe is with our Ozzie Ball running. I like stealing bases as much or more than anyone but we looked dumb out there tonight. Clearly Posada was showing off a good arm tonight and the Yankee pitchers were quick to the plate as we sent guys with good but unspectacular speed towards second and ending our innings. Where is the hit and run? If you are struggling to get rallies going and you aren't able to steal bases, putting a guy in motion is a great way to hedge your bets. Yet we don't do this very much. It would be wise with a guy like Cintron who can handle the bat well I don't disagree with you but this is Ozzie's style. I remember thinking this many times last year too and look what happened. When things are good, this style looks great and"keeps pressure on the other team." WHen it doesn't work, they look like schmucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 QUOTE(Punch and Judy Garland @ Aug 9, 2006 -> 12:35 AM) Yeah its hard to say. Wasn't there one out when Ozuna ran? A-Rod showed later the advantage of the two out steal as you don't have to peer in for the double play. How many feet did our guys have to get thrown out by for us to consider puttiing the red light up? I agreed with Ozuna coming in so that he could score on a gapper and that is a normal running situation but all night we showed that Posada had us beat by 6 feet In general, you're right. The baserunning has been poor this year. However, mrzo makes a good point. And, Ozuna did look like he was thinking h&r as opposed to straight steal. Hawk didn't mention it, but I caught him looking in toward the plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 I was at the game last night, and they won again. So, my offer is still on the table for anyone that wants to give me a ticket for each game to ensure a Sox win. But, it really pissed me off when Ozzie had AJ try to bunt with a runner on 1st and nobody out. The attempt was nice and all, but when AJ failed on the first try, everyone and their brother knew that he wasn't going to be successful. So, take the f***ing bunt sign off and try to get a hit. AJ then failed, Ozuna was thrown out by a mile at second, and the inning was basically over. Ozzie keeps managing this team as if it were the 2005 team. He's just never going to realize that it's a completely different team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Not scoring from 2nd base on a double off the right field fence is another horrible base running play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 QUOTE(fathom @ Aug 9, 2006 -> 10:04 PM) Not scoring from 2nd base on a double off the right field fence is another horrible base running play. Not according to Bill Melton on the post game show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 QUOTE(BigSqwert @ Aug 9, 2006 -> 10:36 PM) Not according to Bill Melton on the post game show. Melton's nuts and gets a White Sox paycheck. That ball was clearly not going to be caught, in fact it looked like a homer from the club level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 QUOTE(BigSqwert @ Aug 9, 2006 -> 10:36 PM) Not according to Bill Melton on the post game show. Or Harrelson. There was never a chance that ball would be caught. You should get the guy in from third with less no outs but he should have scored anyway. If the player is looking at he wall he is not in position to mkae a catch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 I don't care what the circumstances are. If you can't score from 2nd on a double, then you are both slow and terrible on the bases. That is the epitome of both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Nothing is as bad as not getting more runs on bases loaded with no outs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 QUOTE(RockRaines @ Aug 10, 2006 -> 09:57 AM) Nothing is as bad as not getting more runs on bases loaded with no outs. How many times have we done that this year? It's been quite a few. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch and Judy Garland Posted August 10, 2006 Author Share Posted August 10, 2006 I could be wrong but I believe Don Baylor was fired from the Cubs the day fter the Cubs failed to score a run three innings in a single game with the bases loaded and no outs. Not sure if that is completely accurate but that is the memory anyways Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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