Left field

[whitesoxfan101]

I wish Ryan Sweeney was 2 years older and a long time left fielder....

Edited August 10, 2006 by whitesoxfan101

[Dick Allen]

His away splits are atrocious.

 

1 HR and 7 RBIs

 

AVG/OBP/OPS

204/292/588

And thats with him getting 3 RBI on the last roadtrip. He and Carlos Zambrano were tied in road homers and RBI until last roadtrip. Zambrano only needed 16 ABs though.

[Milkman delivers]

Like I said, I was talking about the offensive production of Pods, or lack of it. I don't think Brian's in CF just because he's a good (definitely not great) CF. I don't think we have any other options. They wouldn't run Mack out there if we did.

 

Definitely great. Every defensive stat I've seen says he is, and so do my eyes.

[whitesoxfan101]

Definitely great. Every defensive stat I've seen says he is, and so do my eyes.

 

Our CF defense this year is better than last year. Our problem is the RF and LF are both a lot slower, and Pods defense, why relied ALL on makeup speed in the past (and was STILL bad), is now a joke because he has no arm, gets bad reads, AND can't run very well. At least with Dye in RF, he's a beast at the dish and still gets good reads and can throw.

Edited August 10, 2006 by whitesoxfan101

[Milkman delivers]

Our CF defense this year is better than last year. Our problem is the RF and LF are both a lot slower, and Pods defense, why relied ALL on makeup speed in the past (and was STILL bad), is now a joke because he has no arm, gets bad reads, AND can't run very well. At least with Dye in RF, he's a beast at the dish and still gets good reads and can throw.

 

Couldn't agree more.

[Heads22]

If Brian was 3/4 the CF he is now, and just dove around a lot. People would say he's better than A-Row in center. The fact that he's had like 2 web gem type plays detracts from what people think.

 

Brian still has his issues covering towards the gaps when Dye or Pods are nearby, but I would expect that to change as he's in CF more and more.

 

Now he just needs to shake off this mini slump. I know if people knew he'd hit over .260 after the break after his start there'd be no problem. I definitley don't like how he's looked lately though, because a lot of his AB are similar to the early year ones, at least in the last few days.

[whitesoxfan101]

If Brian was 3/4 the CF he is now, and just dove around a lot. People would say he's better than A-Row in center. The fact that he's had like 2 web gem type plays detracts from what people think.

 

Brian still has his issues covering towards the gaps when Dye or Pods are nearby, but I would expect that to change as he's in CF more and more.

 

Now he just needs to shake off this mini slump. I know if people knew he'd hit over .260 after the break after his start there'd be no problem. I definitley don't like how he's looked lately though, because a lot of his AB are similar to the early year ones, at least in the last few days.

 

Correct, Brian's skill on defense which allows him to make almost every play look easy, is why people still think Rowand was better. Rowand's diving, crashing into walls, and reckless play was fun to watch and showed he really cared, but it doesn't change the fact that Brian is a better defender and catches just about everything, while having more range than Crash ever dreamed of.

[Pants Rowland]

While the defense has been poorer this year than last, Rowand is not an upgrade defensively from Anderson, and Overbay would not play first base enough to make a difference. You don't improve the defense with acquiring Overbay and retaining Rowand, in fact it even goes down a bit. Offensively, maybe at the bottom of your order you get a little improvement, but not enough to offset the huge loss of not having Thome in the lineup. Thome obviously has more homers than Overbay. In fact he has more than Overbay and Rowand combined. He also gets on base a ton more than either do. Thome's contribution to the White Sox can also be seen in Jermaine Dye's numbers, and maybe even Crede's and AJs. He alone changed this team from a very average offensive team with power, to a powerhouse line-up, and perhaps the best offense in baseball even when they have a CF who hasn't hit sour apples, and a lead-off man that has looked lost for a good portion of the season.

 

The White Sox had Konerko, Thomas, Ordonez, and Lee all in a row from 2000-2004 and could not win a title. I am not disputing the impact Thome has had on the lineup from Iguchi to Crede/Pierzynski. I also agree that Anderson is/will be a better center fielder than Rowand. I am talking about balance. I will take a little less defense out of Rowand coupled with his bat in the 7 or 8 hole versus Anderson's defense coupled with his big looping swing and .205 average. Konerko can not DH once in a while because the choices for a backup at 1st base are Gload, Mackowiak and Thome. Gload is a pariah on this board 99% of the time, Mackowiak has played only a handful of games at first, and Thome is too fragile and valuable to risk injury in the field. The Sox have no legitimate backup defense in the outfield no matter how good Mack and Pablo are when they are on a hot streak. The 2005 White Sox won the title not because of monster production in the middle of the lineup. The did it through pitching, defense, and teamwork. Thome can hit 60 home runs and have 185 RBI but he can be streaky, strikes out a lot, and most importantly can not play defense. If you can eliminate the need for Gload, you can save a lot of the runs that Mackowiak surrendered with his rotten glove in the 7-9 innings this year. Anderson could still be on this team in Mackowiak's current roll of part time starter. You pick your spots and allow the regulars to rest while Anderson can develop against some of the less stingy arms in the league. Meanwhile, he can always come in late to help preserve a lead. It is all hindsight, but as much as the starting pitchers and Ozzie deserve some blame for the team struggles, so does the defense for not backing them up. Just remember, the Yankees line-up is stacked and has not won a world series since the days of Brosius, O'Neil, Williams, and Martinez.

[whitesoxfan101]

The White Sox had Konerko, Thomas, Ordonez, and Lee all in a row from 2000-2004 and could not win a title. I am not disputing the impact Thome has had on the lineup from Iguchi to Crede/Pierzynski. I also agree that Anderson is/will be a better center fielder than Rowand. I am talking about balance. I will take a little less defense out of Rowand coupled with his bat in the 7 or 8 hole versus Anderson's defense coupled with his big looping swing and .205 average. Konerko can not DH once in a while because the choices for a backup at 1st base are Gload, Mackowiak and Thome. Gload is a pariah on this board 99% of the time, Mackowiak has played only a handful of games at first, and Thome is too fragile and valuable to risk injury in the field. The Sox have no legitimate backup defense in the outfield no matter how good Mack and Pablo are when they are on a hot streak. The 2005 White Sox won the title not because of monster production in the middle of the lineup. The did it through pitching, defense, and teamwork. Thome can hit 60 home runs and have 185 RBI but he can be streaky, strikes out a lot, and most importantly can not play defense. If you can eliminate the need for Gload, you can save a lot of the runs that Mackowiak surrendered with his rotten glove in the 7-9 innings this year. Anderson could still be on this team in Mackowiak's current roll of part time starter. You pick your spots and allow the regulars to rest while Anderson can develop against some of the less stingy arms in the league. Meanwhile, he can always come in late to help preserve a lead. It is all hindsight, but as much as the starting pitchers and Ozzie deserve some blame for the team struggles, so does the defense for not backing them up. Just remember, the Yankees line-up is stacked and has not won a world series since the days of Brosius, O'Neil, Williams, and Martinez.

 

That's all fun and cute and heartwarming, but if this years pitching staff were as good as last years, we'd be the team with the record the Tigers have. Hell, maybe better than that. If this pitching staff were HALF as good as last years, we'd be in shape to win 105 games. The problem with this team starts and ends with the pitching staff, and the reason people want a change in LF and Brian in CF everyday is simply because it makes our defense A LOT better, doesn't hurt the offense, and the better defense in the long run would help the pitching staff gives up a few less runs and maybe get us the few more wins we need to make the playoffs.

[Dick Allen]

The White Sox had Konerko, Thomas, Ordonez, and Lee all in a row from 2000-2004 and could not win a title. I am not disputing the impact Thome has had on the lineup from Iguchi to Crede/Pierzynski. I also agree that Anderson is/will be a better center fielder than Rowand. I am talking about balance. I will take a little less defense out of Rowand coupled with his bat in the 7 or 8 hole versus Anderson's defense coupled with his big looping swing and .205 average. Konerko can not DH once in a while because the choices for a backup at 1st base are Gload, Mackowiak and Thome. Gload is a pariah on this board 99% of the time, Mackowiak has played only a handful of games at first, and Thome is too fragile and valuable to risk injury in the field. The Sox have no legitimate backup defense in the outfield no matter how good Mack and Pablo are when they are on a hot streak. The 2005 White Sox won the title not because of monster production in the middle of the lineup. The did it through pitching, defense, and teamwork. Thome can hit 60 home runs and have 185 RBI but he can be streaky, strikes out a lot, and most importantly can not play defense. If you can eliminate the need for Gload, you can save a lot of the runs that Mackowiak surrendered with his rotten glove in the 7-9 innings this year. Anderson could still be on this team in Mackowiak's current roll of part time starter. You pick your spots and allow the regulars to rest while Anderson can develop against some of the less stingy arms in the league. Meanwhile, he can always come in late to help preserve a lead. It is all hindsight, but as much as the starting pitchers and Ozzie deserve some blame for the team struggles, so does the defense for not backing them up. Just remember, the Yankees line-up is stacked and has not won a world series since the days of Brosius, O'Neil, Williams, and Martinez.

The White Sox may be unbalanced as far as having Anderson and Uribe at the bottom of the order, but they still lead the league in runs scored. The problem is the pitching. The Sox have gone 5-26 in games in which they have scored 3 or fewer runs. While a good record in that situation is nearly impossible, only 5 wins is the alarming part. They also have lost 11 games in which they have scored 6 or more runs. Brian Anderson and Juan Uribe, although they have been less than stellar at the plate, are not the reason the White Sox are miles behind Detroit and now in 3rd place in the Central. The blame goes to the pitchers. Buerhle, Garcia, Garland for a while, Vazquez, Politte. If these guys gave you what the White Sox had projected for them, Detroit would be looking up at the White Sox right now. No question about it. You can have the greatest offense in the world, but if your pitching is poor, you may have a decent record, but you won't be hoisting any trophies in October. KW will learn something from this season, no matter what happens, and I think you will see him aggressively improve his pitching staff this winter. Its not going to be sign 8 minor league free agents and hope one works out again.

[Pants Rowland]

That's all fun and cute and heartwarming, but if this years pitching staff were as good as last years, we'd be the team with the record the Tigers have. Hell, maybe better than that. If this pitching staff were HALF as good as last years, we'd be in shape to win 105 games. The problem with this team starts and ends with the pitching staff, and the reason people want a change in LF and Brian in CF everyday is simply because it makes our defense A LOT better, doesn't hurt the offense, and the better defense in the long run would help the pitching staff gives up a few less runs and maybe get us the few more wins we need to make the playoffs.

 

I do not dispute the fact the pitching has been beyond disappointing. However, the overall team defense has been a disappointment in its own right. That does affect the pitching staff over the course of a season. Based on the latter part of your post, you agree with the fact that this team needs better defense to save a few more runs. I threw out the example of Overbay as an alternative to Thome, but all other things being equal, somewhere between Mackowiak, Ozuna, Gload and Cintron, this year's version of Group Four is lacking. We have no late inning defensive replacements. That becomes a huge problem when our best outfielder is frequently pinch hit for late in the game.

[Pants Rowland]

The White Sox may be unbalanced as far as having Anderson and Uribe at the bottom of the order, but they still lead the league in runs scored. The problem is the pitching. The Sox have gone 5-26 in games in which they have scored 3 or fewer runs. While a good record in that situation is nearly impossible, only 5 wins is the alarming part. They also have lost 11 games in which they have scored 6 or more runs. Brian Anderson and Juan Uribe, although they have been less than stellar at the plate, are not the reason the White Sox are miles behind Detroit and now in 3rd place in the Central. The blame goes to the pitchers. Buerhle, Garcia, Garland for a while, Vazquez, Politte. If these guys gave you what the White Sox had projected for them, Detroit would be looking up at the White Sox right now. No question about it. You can have the greatest offense in the world, but if your pitching is poor, you may have a decent record, but you won't be hoisting any trophies in October. KW will learn something from this season, no matter what happens, and I think you will see him aggressively improve his pitching staff this winter. Its not going to be sign 8 minor league free agents and hope one works out again.

 

I can not argue with you here, each of the starters other than Contrerass have had long stretches of brutality. I just believe the nuances of the game all have an impact. The argument many people make are Freddy and Buerhle are tired or injured. I think a weak bullpen at the beginning of the season and average defense throughout the season are contributing factors. Guillen stopped trusting the bullpen early and kept the starters in longer. The defense gave the other team a few more outs to work with and there are that many more pitches to throw. I do think it started to snowball and contributed to the performances we are seeing out of the starters now. Guillen definitely needs to get out of his habits and start bringing relief in the 6th or to start the 7th rather than letting his starters allow a few baserunners in the 7th before he turns it over to the pen.

[elrockinMT]

wasn't he the mvp last year. the starter. the igniter. the wheels.

 

 

Yes. That's why we traded for him. SB's, etc, etc, Ozzie now admits he can't field or at least throw the ball Ozuna had a lofty batting average, which is steadily falling. Neither has shown much ability to bunt when needed

 

But, if Pods starts hitting and stealing bases it might ignite some offense.

[whitesoxfan101]

But, if Pods starts hitting and stealing bases it might ignite some offense.

 

The offense leads the league in runs, it doesn't need to be "ignited". The pitching staff (mainly the starters) needs to quit being a giant pile of crap, that's the problem here. Mack in LF and Anderson in CF everyday would help the defense, and thus help the pitching staff however....and it wouldn't hurt the lineup at all either. That's why that movement keeps growing.

[fathom]

You can survive on a great hitting team having a defensive SS and CF. However, you can't have a LF who sucks on offense and defense. We also just have to see the end of Mackowiak in CF. It's so freaking stupid that we keep making the same mistakes 110 games into the season.

[The Ginger Kid]

Definitely great. Every defensive stat I've seen says he is, and so do my eyes.

You can call him the greatest of all time if you like. With his weak bat he belongs in AAA.

[Heads22]

You can call him the greatest of all time if you like. With his weak bat he belongs in AAA.

 

 

With his weak .261 average since the All-Star break. It's not like we have another outfielder with worse defense and offense since then.

[The Ginger Kid]

You can survive on a great hitting team having a defensive SS and CF.

disagree, not when it's Uribe and Anderson and they preceed Podsednik in the order. 3 up, 3 down.

 

With his weak .261 average since the All-Star break. It's not like we have another outfielder with worse defense and offense since then.

 

Sure it's better, but he's still hitting around .210 on the season and that's my point, he's been a constant drag on the offense for the whole season. I wish it weren't the case, I'm a big fan of Brian's.

[Balta1701]

Sure it's better, but he's still hitting around .210 on the season and that's my point, he's been a constant drag on the offense for the whole season. I wish it weren't the case, I'm a big fan of Brian's.

Let me say this in response...the only way Brian Anderson's offense has cost us ballgames this year is that it has made Ozzie decide it's a good idea to platoon him with Mackowiak.

[Heads22]

Sure it's better, but he's still hitting around .210 on the season and that's my point, he's been a constant drag on the offense for the whole season. I wish it weren't the case, I'm a big fan of Brian's.

 

His lack of offense has hurt the defense more than anything.

 

So, are you saying that we should disregard how players are trending and just assume that their seasonal average dictates what kind of player they are currently?

[Jordan4life_2007]

Why are we complaining about Uribe's offense again? From June 15th to July 4th he led all of baseball in RBIs. From July 15th to August 2nd he hit safely in 13 of the 14 games he played in (including an eleven game hitting streak).

 

Anderson is hitting .262 since the break. Yeah, he's bad so far this month, but the month is still young.

 

Pods is simply in another one of those funks where he looks awful. He's been so inconsistent this year. I do believe he'll turn it around again, though.

 

 

 

 

You can call him the greatest of all time if you like. With his weak bat he belongs in AAA.

 

And who plays center if we sent him down? And haven't you noticed how much better he's looked at the plate the last couple months?

[Jimbo's Drinker]

Why are we complaining about Uribe's offense again? From June 15th to July 4th he led all of baseball in RBIs. From July 15th to August 2nd he hit safely in 13 of the 14 games he played in (including an eleven game hitting streak).

 

Anderson is hitting .262 since the break. Yeah, he's bad so far this month, but the month is still young.

 

Pods is simply in another one of those funks where he looks awful. He's been so inconsistent this year. I do believe he'll turn it around again, though.

 

 

Ill say it to the point. Pods sucks, this team needs a real LF, not a 1 tooled player. He was great for us last year, but its not the same guy this year. Imagine if he were on base for Thome and Kong more....scary stuff.

[The Ginger Kid]

His lack of offense has hurt the defense more than anything.

 

So, are you saying that we should disregard how players are trending and just assume that their seasonal average dictates what kind of player they are currently?

For the sake of this point, yes, for the same reasons I didn't say that guys like Thome or Paulie or Dye or Joe were burdens when they slumped because in the overall picture, the season in its entirety to this point, they've been the reason we have a winning record and still have a very good shot at the playoffs. If Brian was scorching hot for the last month then obviously that kind of contribution could not be overlooked. A snapshot of his contribution isn't fair, just as it wouldn't be fair to say that Pods was awesome in May, who cares how he's doing now.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Ill say it to the point. Pods sucks, this team needs a real LF, not a 1 tooled player. He was great for us last year, but its not the same guy this year. Imagine if he were on base for Thome and Kong more....scary stuff.

 

Consistency has been his problem. He's been up/down all year. This is one of those down periods at the moment. I'm fairly certain you'll see him turn it around soon.

Edited August 10, 2006 by Jordan4life_2006

[Jimbo's Drinker]

Consistency has been his problem. He's been up/down all year. This is one of those down periods at the moment. I'm fairly certain you'll see him turn it around soon.

 

 

 

from your mouth to the good lord's ears.