Stop the US-Israeli War rally in S.F.

[EvilMonkey]

http://www.zombietime.com/stop_the_us_israeli_war_8_12_2006/

 

What a lovely bunch of people we have displayed here. Enjoy.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

Ah, the usage of a few selected photos as a means of dismissing those who are knowledgeable about the topic and have logical, cogent reasons for being against it.

 

I'm not saying that you're doing that EvilMonkey -- it just gets tiring with the "OMG! Teh Bolsheviks!" sign and then using that to dismiss an entire movement. It's just like "OMG! Arnold's dad was a Nazi so he must be one too!"

 

You're not going to get much love from me for ANSWER. One of my favorite sites is:

http://www.authoritarianopportunistswhocoz...s-forpeace.org/

 

And with the Nazi references, here's a piece from Norman Finkelstein (prof. at DePaul, parents were concentration camp victims)

 

"To repress Palestinian resistance, a senior Israeli officer earlier this year urged the army to "analyze and internalize the lessons of…how the German army fought in the Warsaw ghetto." (Haaretz, 25 January 2002, 1 February 2002) Judging by the recent Israeli carnage in the West Bank - the targeting of Palestinian ambulances and medical personnel, the targeting of journalists, the killing of Palestinian children "for sport" (Chris Hedges, New York Times former Cairo bureau chief), the rounding up, handcuffing and blindfolding of all Palestinian males between the ages 15 and 50, and affixing of numbers on their wrists, the indiscriminate torture of Palestinian detainees, the denial of food, water, electricity, and medical assistance to the Palestinian civilian population, the indiscriminate air assaults on Palestinian neighborhoods, the use of Palestinian civilians as human shields, the bulldozing of Palestinian homes with the occupants huddled inside - it appears that the Israeli army is following the officer's advice. Dismissing all criticism as motivated by anti-Semitism, Elie Wiesel - chief spokesman for the Holocaust Industry - lent unconditional support to Israel, stressing the "great pain and anguish" endured by its rampaging army. (Reuters, 11 April; CNN, 14 April)

 

Meanwhile, the Portuguese Nobel laureate in literature, Jose Saramago, invoked the "spirit of Auschwitz" in depicting the horrors inflicted by Israel, while a Belgian parliamentarian avowed that Israel was "making a concentration camp out of the West Bank." (The Observer, 7 April 2002) Israelis across the political spectrum recoil in outrage at such comparisons. Yet, if Israelis don't want to stand accused of being Nazis they should simply stop acting like Nazis."

[Rex Kickass]

The site you posted links to porn.

[jackie hayes]

Ah, the usage of a few selected photos as a means of dismissing those who are knowledgeable about the topic and have logical, cogent reasons for being against it.

 

I'm not saying that you're doing that EvilMonkey -- it just gets tiring with the "OMG! Teh Bolsheviks!" sign and then using that to dismiss an entire movement. It's just like "OMG! Arnold's dad was a Nazi so he must be one too!"

 

You're not going to get much love from me for ANSWER. One of my favorite sites is:

http://www.authoritarianopportunistswhocoz...s-forpeace.org/

 

And with the Nazi references, here's a piece from Norman Finkelstein (prof. at DePaul, parents were concentration camp victims)

 

"To repress Palestinian resistance, a senior Israeli officer earlier this year urged the army to "analyze and internalize the lessons of…how the German army fought in the Warsaw ghetto." (Haaretz, 25 January 2002, 1 February 2002) Judging by the recent Israeli carnage in the West Bank - the targeting of Palestinian ambulances and medical personnel, the targeting of journalists, the killing of Palestinian children "for sport" (Chris Hedges, New York Times former Cairo bureau chief), the rounding up, handcuffing and blindfolding of all Palestinian males between the ages 15 and 50, and affixing of numbers on their wrists, the indiscriminate torture of Palestinian detainees, the denial of food, water, electricity, and medical assistance to the Palestinian civilian population, the indiscriminate air assaults on Palestinian neighborhoods, the use of Palestinian civilians as human shields, the bulldozing of Palestinian homes with the occupants huddled inside - it appears that the Israeli army is following the officer's advice. Dismissing all criticism as motivated by anti-Semitism, Elie Wiesel - chief spokesman for the Holocaust Industry - lent unconditional support to Israel, stressing the "great pain and anguish" endured by its rampaging army. (Reuters, 11 April; CNN, 14 April)

 

Meanwhile, the Portuguese Nobel laureate in literature, Jose Saramago, invoked the "spirit of Auschwitz" in depicting the horrors inflicted by Israel, while a Belgian parliamentarian avowed that Israel was "making a concentration camp out of the West Bank." (The Observer, 7 April 2002) Israelis across the political spectrum recoil in outrage at such comparisons. Yet, if Israelis don't want to stand accused of being Nazis they should simply stop acting like Nazis."

Oh, I get it. The opinions of a couple dozen-odd anti-Israel (and sometimes obviously anti-Semite) protesters is unrepresentative and unfair. But your quote from one Israel-hating Jew writing in 2002 is cogent, insightful, and relevant. Thanks for your balance on this, LCR.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

Oh, I get it. The opinions of a couple dozen-odd anti-Israel (and sometimes obviously anti-Semite) protesters is unrepresentative and unfair. But your quote from one Israel-hating Jew writing in 2002 is cogent, insightful, and relevant. Thanks for your balance on this, LCR.

Actually when the IDF states they need to learn military tactics from those used in the Warsaw ghetto, I'd say its somewhat clear that they're acting like Nazis. That's my point -- if the state of Israel would like to have the allegations of acting like Nazis levied at them, then they should simply stop acting in the fashion of the Nazis. Finkelstein's piece cited the newspaper source quoting the IDF on that -- hence bringing it to the discussion. But the IDF officers don't represent the IDF, right?

 

And you're welcome for my balance on the issue. Objectivity is a complete myth.

[mr_genius]

I'd say its somewhat clear that they're acting like Nazis. That's my point -- if the state of Israel would like to have the allegations of acting like Nazis levied at them, then they should simply stop acting in the fashion of the Nazis.

 

 

http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Godwin's_Law

[LowerCaseRepublican]

http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Godwin's_Law

Yeah I know what Godwin's Law says but the Nazi allusion is warranted in this case with the IDF saying they need to learn the effective military tactics used by the Nazis in the Warsaw ghetto. It's one thing to say that their systematic quasi-apartheid state is Nazism (that's a whole other can of worms) but when the IDF clearly says they want to act like the Nazi war machine did in the Warsaw ghettos, it's pretty clear and a logical step to say that they are acting as Nazis.

[Balta1701]

http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Godwin's_Law

So if Mr. Bush is now talking about "Islamo-Fascists" in order to link the terrorists to WWII, does that mean we've lost the war on terror?

[jackie hayes]

Actually when the IDF states they need to learn military tactics from those used in the Warsaw ghetto, I'd say its somewhat clear that they're acting like Nazis. That's my point -- if the state of Israel would like to have the allegations of acting like Nazis levied at them, then they should simply stop acting in the fashion of the Nazis. Finkelstein's piece cited the newspaper source quoting the IDF on that -- hence bringing it to the discussion. But the IDF officers don't represent the IDF, right?

 

And you're welcome for my balance on the issue. Objectivity is a complete myth.

No, not at all. The way you're using the phrase "acting like Nazis", it would apply if the US mimics Panzer or Luftwaffe battlefield tactics. There's nothing wrong in learning a strategy used effectively by an army fighting an immoral war.

 

Likening Israel to the Nazis is obviously supposed to imply that one of Israel's main purposes is to massacre and liquidate Muslims, Arabs, Palestinians, or some group. That's something that I don't believe one bit, and the IDF quote doesn't support it in the least.

[EvilMonkey]

Ah, the usage of a few selected photos as a means of dismissing those who are knowledgeable about the topic and have logical, cogent reasons for being against it.

No, the showing of these photos is to show that as is usually the case, whichever side or protest it may be, the loudest ones tend to be the wackiest ones. Especially since this took place in san francisco. While a majority of people who are against Israel may be 'normal' people, I don't think you can claim that the signs and people pictured there were in a minority at that particular rally.

[Balta1701]

No, the showing of these photos is to show that as is usually the case, whichever side or protest it may be, the loudest ones tend to be the wackiest ones. Especially since this took place in san francisco. While a majority of people who are against Israel may be 'normal' people, I don't think you can claim that the signs and people pictured there were in a minority at that particular rally.

However, the question is...does that particular rally represent a majority of the people who think that the Israeli operation was a mistake?

[EvilMonkey]

No, not at all. The way you're using the phrase "acting like Nazis", it would apply if the US mimics Panzer or Luftwaffe battlefield tactics. There's nothing wrong in learning a strategy used effectively by an army fighting an immoral war.

 

Likening Israel to the Nazis is obviously supposed to imply that one of Israel's main purposes is to massacre and liquidate Muslims, Arabs, Palestinians, or some group. That's something that I don't believe one bit, and the IDF quote doesn't support it in the least.

Jackie Hayes, you pinned it. The throwing around of the phrase 'acting like Nazis' is insinuating that they are out to eradicate Muslims from the earth ror something. PLus, has nothing to do but distract you from the wackos present at the SF rally.

[mr_genius]

So if Mr. Bush is now talking about "Islamo-Fascists" in order to link the terrorists to WWII, does that mean we've lost the war on terror?

 

 

i don't think you fully understand how the whole thing 'godwins law' works, yo.

Edited August 14, 2006 by mr_genius

[EvilMonkey]

i don't think you fully understand how the whole thing 'goodwins law' works, yo.

What? Balta doesn't understand something? I feel a disturbance in the force!

[Balta1701]

Jackie Hayes, you pinned it. The throwing around of the phrase 'acting like Nazis' is insinuating that they are out to eradicate Muslims from the earth ror something. PLus, has nothing to do but distract you from the wackos present at the SF rally.

You're 100% right. The Nazis pioneered the technique of an armor-led rapid assault, the same sort of design we used in Gulf war 1. Does that mean that Schwarzkopf believed in the natural superiority of the Aryan Race? Somehow, I doubt it.

 

Here's the way I've thought about it. If a person is trying to link a behavior of some person, army, country, or political opponent to the Nazis, and then doesn't bother to explain further why exactly they think the behavior is bad, then all they're doing is trying to link their opponent to the Nazis under the assumption that every single thing the Nazis did was terrible and anyone doing anything remotely similar must be totally evil. It's, IMO, quite intellectually lazy, but the problem is that for people who don't give things a second thought, it can be effective.

 

If you want to prove something's evil to me, then prove that it's evil. Don't just say that the Nazis did something and therefore it's obviously evil.

 

Of course, also here, I would consider making note that pointing at the wackos present at the SF rally does nothing but distract people from any genuine arguments made against a certain policy. "Yeah, you have all these reasons why this operation may not work, but look, this guy thinks the Israelis are Nazis and you agree with him! You're clearly wrong!" I put that sort of discussion on a similar level as making Nazi references. It does NOTHING to contribute to most debates, just as most Nazi references do nothing to improve the quality of most debates.

[southsider2k5]

Jackie Hayes, you pinned it. The throwing around of the phrase 'acting like Nazis' is insinuating that they are out to eradicate Muslims from the earth ror something. PLus, has nothing to do but distract you from the wackos present at the SF rally.

 

I think the whole "acting like Nazi's" thing for the Jews, is the exact reason things like "anti-semite" get tossed around so freely on the other side. Everyone wants to pull out the hard hitting label for their 5 second soundbyte, without actually having to put some thought or sense to anything. When the Israelis conduct mass round ups and executions of a race, without a single act of aggression or war being taken against them, then we can talk about "acting like nazi's". So far the Israelis are responding to an act of war perpetrated against them, yet again. Have their tacticts been nice? Hell no. But is it nice to break multiple Geneva conventions and invade a nation with ununiformed militia and kidnap its soliders to hold them for ransom or worse? Is it nice to fire missiles from civilian/nuetral party areas knowing it will draw fire towards innocent people? Is it nice to perpetrate lies and control all media access in order to make one side look like they are committing war crimes, when in fact they are responding to acts of aggression? Yeah, give me millions of dead Palestians murdered because the Israelis blame all of their woes on them, and hold them up to hide the shortcomings of their own governments, then we can talk about acting like Nazi's.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

No, not at all. The way you're using the phrase "acting like Nazis", it would apply if the US mimics Panzer or Luftwaffe battlefield tactics. There's nothing wrong in learning a strategy used effectively by an army fighting an immoral war.

 

Likening Israel to the Nazis is obviously supposed to imply that one of Israel's main purposes is to massacre and liquidate Muslims, Arabs, Palestinians, or some group. That's something that I don't believe one bit, and the IDF quote doesn't support it in the least.

 

 

You have to love the irony in that because it's LCRs poor, helpless Muslims who want to massacre and liquidate the Jews.

[EvilMonkey]

You have to love the irony in that because it's LCRs poor, helpless Muslims who want to massacre and liquidate the Jews.

welcome back!

[LowerCaseRepublican]

You have to love the irony in that because it's LCRs poor, helpless Muslims who want to massacre and liquidate the Jews.

Yeah, cuz there's no innocent Palestinians living in the area at all, right?

 

Nuance called. Want you to pick up the phone and acknowledge them in specific situations.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

welcome back!

 

 

Thanks. Going to the middle of nowhere for a couple of weeks for training isin't very conducive to posting so hence the vacation.