whitesoxfan101 Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sp...-home-headlines Leyland cites tipping point By Dave van Dyck Tribune staff reporter August 13, 2006, 8:13 PM CDT Earlier this season, the Cardinals accused the White Sox of stealing pitch-selection signs from center field. Now the Tigers are claiming the Sox knew what was coming from rookie Justin Verlander in Friday night's game by picking up tip-offs on his pitches. Of course, noticing that a pitcher tips what he is going to throw is more clever than criminal, though it is an insult to a team that pounded the hard-throwing righty for a career-worst 13 hits in a 5-0 victory. Right in the middle of the controversy is Jim Thome, who smashed a Verlander pitch for a two-run homer during a four-run fifth. The pitch was a changeup after Thome had taken four straight fastballs. "Almost impossible," manager Jim Leyland told Detroit media. "It's pretty suspicious when a guy looks at [four] straight fastballs and then doesn't flinch on a changeup and stays back and hits it out of the ballpark. I love Jim Thome, and he's a hell of a hitter, but that's one of the damnedest things I've ever seen." Said Thome: "I don't know what pitch is coming. I don't get the pitches. I just hit." Paul Konerko, who bats behind Thome, said: "No one told me [what was coming]. Jim has almost 500 home runs. No offense to anyone in [Detroit's] dugout, but Jim hits homers off a lot of good pitchers." Sox hitting coach Greg Walker said: "They think [Verlander] was tipping his pitches? I don't care. That's their business. Our business is to hit him. We hit him. It's no big deal. If they're worried more about that, maybe they won't think as much about executing their pitches. "Even if we do get them, most hitters don't even want to know what's coming." When Sandy Alomar Jr. and brother Roberto were with the Sox, Walker said they were "geniuses" at studying pitchers' quirks. "Me? I just got here," said Sandy Alomar, who was acquired from the Dodgers last month. Of course, this may not be the last chapter. The Sox and Tigers still play seven more games this season. And Verlander, who has absorbed three of his five losses from the Sox, will almost surely pitch in at least one. Gimme a freaking break Leyland. We've torched this guy 3 times now, the worst of which was at your place, he has tired arm, and yet we can't have hit him hard, but rather we knew what was coming?? Please, lemme guess we got lucky to sweep your great team too right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S720 Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Aug 13, 2006 -> 08:27 PM) http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sp...-home-headlines Gimme a freaking break Leyland. We've torched this guy 3 times now, the worst of which was at your place, he has tired arm, and yet we can't have hit him hard, but rather we knew what was coming?? Please, lemme guess we got lucky to sweep your great team too right? If my recollection has not failed me, I seem to remember there are two pitchers on our team that also used "tipping pitches" as excuse - Contreras last year and Beurhle this year. Verlander's tired arm still put out 97mph heat. I am not sure the reason why you are writing this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggsmaggs Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 We kicked his ass and now they are crying like little babies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawnhillegas Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 hawk specifically said that verlanders changeup is just too inconsistent. its between 80-85. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 And? So what if he was, so what if he wasn't. If he was and we figured it out... great! That's called gamesmanship. In fairness, Leyland even said that. Total non-issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg The Bull Luzinski Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 How come the White Sox are the only ones that have picked up on his pitch tipping? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ Aug 13, 2006 -> 09:42 PM) How come the White Sox are the only ones that have picked up on his pitch tipping? Some teams just fare better/worse against a particular pitcher. And it has nothing to do with our ballpark, as we rocked him in Detroit in April too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 Umm, isnt part of baseball trying to figure out what pitch is coming next? Basically Leyland just said Verlander is s***ty. Thanks for the explanation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted August 14, 2006 Author Share Posted August 14, 2006 QUOTE(S720 @ Aug 13, 2006 -> 08:34 PM) If my recollection has not failed me, I seem to remember there are two pitchers on our team that also used "tipping pitches" as excuse - Contreras last year and Beurhle this year. Verlander's tired arm still put out 97mph heat. I am not sure the reason why you are writing this! Yeah, and if we were using those excuses, it was a bunch of crap too. I'm just tired of people saying that it's always something other than bad when a pitcher sucks, excuses are just too easy to fall back on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Aug 14, 2006 -> 01:52 AM) Yeah, and if we were using those excuses, it was a bunch of crap too. I'm just tired of people saying that it's always something other than bad when a pitcher sucks, excuses are just too easy to fall back on. Good post. Man up... he had a bad game. Big deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 Whoa. Jim Thome hitting a home run off of a pitcher? Total fluke event. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedge Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 Apparently these guys attended the Dave Duncan school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFanForever Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 I don't know if Leyland has realized it or not but our team handles power pitchers who throw fastballs in the zone a lot better than soft tossers who throw breaking stuff low and away. Verlander is the perfect type of pitcher for our hitters to go after. They want the fastball and with Verlander they are going to get it eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 Except most of the damage was done with his offspeed stuff on Saturday. Interesting twist, isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitewashed in '05 Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 (edited) This is the 3rd time I've read Leyland b****ing about Verlander tipping his pitches. God damn shut the hell up and fix his problem then. Its very annoying as its sounding like their saying they wouldn't had been swept if Verlander wasn't tipping his pitches. Hey morons, your defense didn't help you win games this series and while your pitching wasn't terrible it wasn't good enough. Now this story will stick around until we face him again which is just more aggrevating. Edited August 14, 2006 by Whitewashed in '05 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoRowand33 Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 who cares in the case that he was tipping, stealing signs and looking for tipped pitches has been in the game forever, and its completely acceptable to try and give yourself the upper hand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 You know, If it had been Jim Thome's first at bat of the game, I could maybe see where it would be nothing short of incredible that Jim Thome could hit a HR after 4 straight fastballs and getting a changeup down and away and hitting it out opposite field. But Thome had seen Verlander twice already, and Verlander was struggling. Plus, Thome has seen him in two previous games, it isnt as if Thome wouldnt recognize a pitch or look for a pitch to drive. Leyland is just being pissy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedge Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 if nothing else, the tipping pitches bit and the whole Pudge thing is maybe an indicator that the Tigers are losing their composure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 I believe for Leyland it is more along the lines of giving Verlander something to build on for his next start. The youngster got torched by a potent Sox team and Leyland dpesn't want him thinking about how he got his ass kicked, but instead thinking "geez the only reason they got to me is because I tipped my pitches." 'Skip said so so it must be right." Leyland is just tryiong to be a psychologist to this young kid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 QUOTE(Wedge @ Aug 13, 2006 -> 10:51 PM) if nothing else, the tipping pitches bit and the whole Pudge thing is maybe an indicator that the Tigers are losing their composure? It's a full organizational collapse.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedge Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 QUOTE(greasywheels121 @ Aug 13, 2006 -> 09:56 PM) It's a full organizational collapse.... that seems a bit extreme, but it's certainly an enticing thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonderman38 Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 Big Deal. If they want to prove him wrong just go beat him when he has his "problem" fixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 QUOTE(Bonderman38 @ Aug 13, 2006 -> 10:33 PM) Big Deal. If they want to prove him wrong just go beat him when he has his "problem" fixed. Seems to me that us beating on him is the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonderman38 Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 QUOTE(YASNY @ Aug 13, 2006 -> 11:35 PM) Seems to me that us beating on him is the problem. Yes, so when he has that supposed problem again, just go show him that that wasn't why, you just have his number. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 QUOTE(Bonderman38 @ Aug 13, 2006 -> 10:38 PM) Yes, so when he has that supposed problem again, just go show him that that wasn't why, you just have his number. His number is 0-3 vs. the Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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